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RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/14/2008 4:59:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

(who said how much good would i be to them if any of us are diseased or dead?)

Well let's see, what good is a girl if she's diseased? hmmmm... that's harsh.

(Noticed you are picking what parts of my post offended you without using them as they were stated as part of the whole here. We were discussing preventable communicable diseases, not conditions that cannot be prevented.)

Yes, it was harsh. Reality is often harsh. That does not mean it is not also true.

I am a 24/7 collared slave, so while sex is not the entirety of our relationship it is a part of it.

Sorry Master, no sex this week, see i have these really painful blisters on my parts.

Once you've has syphilis for a while it affects your brain, eventually turning some of it's victims into lunatics.

Hard to either serve or dominate from your rubber room, which is what will happen if you don't get tested and have syphilis treated.

Hard to be a good subbie or a good dominant once you've died of aids.

Well isn't it?

True, up until the part where either of you got so sick you were dying it would be possibly to either serve or dominate. Also true it can be managed for long periods of time, yet the end result is still death.

But once you were dead, hmmm.....most difficult then.

Lack of compassion? I was one of two hospice nurses out of a staff of 37 who willingly saw aids patients and eased their pain and assisted their families deal with their grief as they left this life.

I have a great deal of sympathy for those with herpes, i understand it is both painful and embarrassing.

But to be willingly stupid when these conditions are so easily preventable, unthinkable.

Do i think folks with medical conditions can serve or dominate, yes i do.

I have Rheumatoid arthritis, which does cause my service to be altered when it is in a flare. Jewel has diabetes, which does cause her some issues as well.

But with proper medical care neither of these conditions causes death, unlike AIDS, which always results in death.

And neither of these conditions is communicable, if RA was i would never have physical contact with another living being.

< Message edited by Twicehappy2x -- 7/14/2008 5:02:54 AM >

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(in reply to sunshinemiss)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/14/2008 8:23:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Hello Firestorm,

It was the "how much good" are they part of the post that I found objectionable.
sunshine

Interesting, considering that isn't what was said.

"Unsubmissive behavior? Probably. But oh well, how much good would i be to them if any of us are diseased or dead?"

was clearly a rhetorical question, not an attack on either the sick or the dead.

Right. I didn't see anything offensive (or unsubmissive for that matter) in Twicehappy's post.

I think an s-type has a duty to look after his or her own health and well being. Hopefully the d-type is on board with that and has some common sense, but in cases where he or she isn't, its perfectly justifiable, in my mind, to push the issue. I also think an s-type has a duty to protect their d-type. It would be wrong for me to consent to unprotected sex until I was tested clean because in doing that, I'm endangering everyone I have sex with. Why the hell would I want to risk infecting a d-type (or anyone else) I was involved with?

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(in reply to Alumbrado)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/15/2008 12:01:16 AM

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forgive me if it sounds harsh, but in regards to this sensible request and the answer received he has absolutely no right to be your 'master'. there is no consideration for your health with the answer you said he gave, and you do not deserve such treatment.
i do not know either of you and i do not know your situation, but the way your question was posed makes me think run the other way, as fast as you can.
i apologize for the horror i feel, if this is not what you were hoping for in an answer; but personally, and the value i place upon my health, it would be an ABSOLUTE deal breaker in relation to a new third.
now it is great that when pressed he 'relented' and decided to use a condom, but in light of his previous lack of common fucking sense i'm afraid you really do need to carefully evaluate your new situation.

(in reply to jeanelle)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/16/2008 7:38:36 PM

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condoms, condoms, condoms!!!!

(in reply to ladycirce)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/20/2008 7:52:30 AM

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A few points here:
Condoms only reduce the chance of transmission of STD's. Condoms are not a silver bullet.

One other approach you can take is to require STD tests before you start sexual activity. That for example is the approach taken in the adult film industry-and the results are better than a lot of folks understand. The tests adult film actors use are better than are available to the general public. You can get them at the AIM Foundation
One important thing to get is that some STD's like Herpes, aren't prevented that well by condoms so testing is more important there. Also, some researchers claim that presence of other STD's make it more likely someone might acquire AIDS or transmit it.

I'd rather not get into the debate about which approach is better. I would suggest that using both condoms and getting good recent test results will provide more safety
than either alone-and both are better than doing nothing. Condom use has been the main methoded promoted by the CDC in the US. Some other countries(i.e. Cuba) have emphasized testing with good results.

In your case, I think the struggle sounds like getting your Master to do ANYTHING in the safety arena other than some selection of partners. I doubt he'd anxiously approach a partner who admitted to having an STD or who admitted active IV drug use. I would suggest starting by looking at your own health. Learn about the various STD's out there and get a GOOD STD screen(I would suggest the AIM Foundation). You may have one of several STD's that is asymptomatic. Most folks that have herpes don't know it for example. The problem is that in other folks, that condition can be VERY painful.

I wish you luck discussing this issue with your master.

< Message edited by Highlands -- 7/20/2008 7:55:47 AM >

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/20/2008 3:42:57 PM

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It's quite possible to have herpes for years (be tested even) and have no idea you have it. It's also quite possible for serodiscordant (one has it, one doesn't) couples to remain that way indefinitely.

I too object to the idea that a sub is no good if they're diseased. Thankfully, my Dom doesn't feel that I'm no good. (10 years of living with herpes under my belt. Anyone who thinks I'm no good can just kiss my ass.) I'm glad my Dom is a doctor and knowledgeable rather than ignorant like so many people on this site.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/20/2008 5:30:20 PM

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How ignorant is it it take offense at something that was never said?

(in reply to sublibrarian)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/20/2008 6:06:35 PM

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Live just one day in my shoes and see how defensive you get.

"how much good would i be to them if any of us are diseased or dead?"

What's being said is that the sub would no longer be good (of use) to their Dom if they were diseased. Wonder why I got defensive?

Edited to add: This is a reaction to repeatedly hearing on these boards that if someone has an std they're worthless, dirty, a bad person, untouchable, etc. I'm sick of it. Yes I'm reacting strongly but you have no clue what it's like to be a pariah.

< Message edited by sublibrarian -- 7/20/2008 6:16:21 PM >

(in reply to Alumbrado)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/20/2008 6:37:53 PM

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quote:

Live just one day in my shoes and see how defensive you get.

"how much good would i be to them if any of us are diseased or dead?"

What's being said is that the sub would no longer be good (of use) to their Dom if they were diseased. Wonder why I got defensive?

Edited to add: This is a reaction to repeatedly hearing on these boards that if someone has an std they're worthless, dirty, a bad person, untouchable, etc. I'm sick of it. Yes I'm reacting strongly but you have no clue what it's like to be a pariah.

You are projecting your beliefs onto a rhetorical question... the very fact that you assume that no one else has 'lived in your shoes' shows that.

Notice that no one gets to select which STD they get, so advising people to take precautions in general because in the worst case they do kill and destroy, continues to be good advice, your objections notwithstanding.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/20/2008 6:38:14 PM >

(in reply to sublibrarian)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/20/2008 6:49:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublibrarian

Live just one day in my shoes and see how defensive you get.

"how much good would i be to them if any of us are diseased or dead?"

What's being said is that the sub would no longer be good (of use) to their Dom if they were diseased. Wonder why I got defensive?

You know, i understand why you feel like you do. I also wish you'd read the entire post and my consequent reply/statement instead of taking that one line out of context.

And as i already stated, many of the STDs you can catch will at some point render you useless as a submissive or a dominant. Insanity and death being two excellent examples i gave.

True, herpes is not one of those. And i am glad you have a partner who can cope with the issues involved. It is a shame you caught them, and i, like many others understand it quite possibly was through no fault of your own (ie a partner you trusted cheating etc....).

It is a shame you feel or have been made to feel socially unacceptable.

But to be quite honest for me my feelings are thus; i currently have no STDs and am unwilling to engage in any behavior that would expose me to such. The OP has every right to expect to not be exposed to STDs by her partner.

_____________________________

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(in reply to sublibrarian)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/20/2008 7:19:30 PM

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Now people are misinterpreting things I haven't said. I never said the OP doesn't have every right to be protected. Someone not using condoms with me or new partners would be a deal breaker. It's good to be tested and get to know your partners. I'm appalled that her Dom would even consider putting himself and her at risk like that.

But the fact is, if you have unprotected oral sex with someone you're at risk of catching herpes. 90% of the adult population has oral herpes, which can be transmitted genitally. How many of you have unprotected oral? Shunning people who have genital herpes does not keep you safe and I'm tired of people acting like if they just avoid people like me then they're "safe." Something like 80% of college age women have HPV. There is risk involved in having sex.

Yes you're right that herpes does not render me useless as a sub (of course if you catch HIV and die then yes, you have been rendered useless). There is more to my relationship than just sex. There is play we can engage in even when I have an outbreak. I can still orally service my Dom for example. He can still spank me. I can still clean his apartment.

I appreciate that you see where I'm coming from, twicehappy. This is not a personal attack. It's just months of pent up annoyance at being treated like I'm somehow a bad person because a guy I dated 10 years ago wasn't necessarily honest about his STI status.

Alumbrado - I don't assume that no one else has walked in my shoes. However since you haven't said otherwise I have to assume that you don't know firsthand what it's like to live with an STI. Constantly being treated like a pariah sucks. If you do know what it's like, then I would imagine you'd agree.

< Message edited by sublibrarian -- 7/20/2008 7:21:59 PM >

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/20/2008 7:44:22 PM

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If I had infomation to support your claim I would be more likely to agree without the ad hominem arguments... but doing a search of the forums here doesn't provide too many examples of anyone being attacked merely because they are ill (the exceptions seem to be of the 'your depression is laziness' sort).

Plenty of people try to justify behaviors that others might not care for, but where are all these constant posts calling you a pariah just for being ill?

(in reply to sublibrarian)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/20/2008 7:53:04 PM

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Joined: 7/19/2008
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quote:

"how much good would i be to them if any of us are diseased or dead?"

What's being said is that the sub would no longer be good (of use) to their Dom if they were diseased. Wonder why I got defensive?

Edited to add: This is a reaction to repeatedly hearing on these boards that if someone has an std they're worthless, dirty, a bad person, untouchable, etc. I'm sick of it. Yes I'm reacting strongly but you have no clue what it's like to be a pariah.

This general topic is VERY emotional for folks. That said, I don't think that being HSV positive is going to restrict the range of potential playmates for an attractive women like yourself as much as say being 30 lbs over weight(I could be wrong in the assumption but that is what I would expect).

Now, a big chunk of folks here are HSV positive and don't know it. We need to develop in general more realistic, ompassionate and effective attitudes here. One of the first ways STD testing was used was by the military in WW I. They tested prostitutes provided to troops-but didn't test the troops themselves. That meant they had a steady stream of prostitutes that would get syphillis-and then get thrown back into the general civilian pool of prostitutes.

AIM Foundation I think is mainly focused on just making sure folks are aware of what the status of their partners are. That alone appears to slow the spread of these STD's quite a bit. Given that information, folks get informed on a range of precautions.

What have you and your partner seen as the key to keeping your partners HSV negative status?

(in reply to sublibrarian)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/21/2008 5:39:05 AM

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I've kept my HSV status to myself until now, so I haven't been directly attacked. However, go to almost any thread on here about STIs and you see people getting high and mighty about how they're totally clean and won't play with someone unless they test totally clean. But the fact is tests are imperfect. When I had my first outbreak, my gynecologist made me wait until the next one to get the blood test to confirm the diagnosis because we could have very possibly gotten a false negative if I was tested in between outbreaks. (I've tested negative and positive for it since catching it.) Considering the rate of oral HSV and the rate of HPV I find it hard to believe that so many people are completely disease free as they claim. They may not know they have something, but STIs are more prevalent than anyone wants to admit.

Highlands: "Now, a big chunk of folks here are HSV positive and don't know it. We need to develop in general more realistic, ompassionate and effective attitudes here."
Thank you. (BTW I'm 50 pounds overweight, so I too know what it's like to be rejected because of weight.)

"What have you and your partner seen as the key to keeping your partners HSV negative status?"
Consistent condom usage. Merely avoiding contact during an outbreak (I get one a year). I take daily antivirals to reduce the risk of transmission. The OP's man should DEFINITELY use condoms with a new partner. To not do so is idiocy.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/22/2008 9:04:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublibrarian
Considering the rate of oral HSV and the rate of HPV I find it hard to believe that so many people are completely disease free as they claim. They may not know they have something, but STIs are more prevalent than anyone wants to admit.
.......
The OP's man should DEFINITELY use condoms with a new partner. To not do so is idiocy.

HSV is tricky because for a lot of folks it is virtually nothing-and for others it is a terribly difficult disease. I would in general agree that STD's are a lot more common than folks typically admit-and in specific are more common in sex-positive communities than a lot of us would like to believe. Now, is this the end of the world? No.I think it will mean either the sex positive community wakes up and regulates itself -or someone else eventually will.

That said, I don't condemn lack of condom use as idiocy. Some folks are carefully controlling their risk other ways. Sadly most are doing nothing and are in denial, ingnorant or self destructive. That is different than idiocy.

(in reply to sublibrarian)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/25/2008 7:16:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeanelle
Am I being ridiculous on this matter?

So, it's ridiculous that you're concerned about your health? Why does he not care about your health? Personally, I'd never have unprotected sex with again and I'd be considering his role in my life. I don't think I'd want to be with someone that doesn't care if I end up with HIV because of his actions.

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(in reply to jeanelle)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/25/2008 4:04:50 PM

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And this is the main reason I don't do poly. I may be old fashioned, but I just like the one to one aspect. And until I find that one I can trust & love, condoms are a requirement. No condom, don't expect to mount this pony.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/25/2008 4:31:45 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessJ77

And this is the main reason I don't do poly. I may be old fashioned, but I just like the one to one aspect. And until I find that one I can trust & love, condoms are a requirement. No condom, don't expect to mount this pony.

As the many "monogamous" people who cheat on their partners prove over and over, just because you both promised to foresake all others, doesn't mean the other person is living up to that promise. Or that all of their partners before you lived up to it. Or those others' partners did...ad infinitum.

Poly really has nothing to do with the issue. The issue is having respect for one's partner(s) and playing it safe. Or what to do when your partner disrespects you by refusing to use condoms.

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(in reply to PrincessJ77)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 7/25/2008 4:47:21 PM

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Hi, I will admit that I read about half the posts and scanned the rest and my astonishment is this ..... SEX at ALL on the first visit?????? Ok, everyone stone me for being a prude, but when we were seeking a third we agreed and told evey lady we spoke to that the 1st meet/visit would be totally NO SEX!!! Play was possible if things felt right to all, but NO SEX. And in fact when we did find someone we wanted to try poly with, we 'touched' her and she 'touched' him and hands were washed throughly very soon after. But oral and no genital penetration until AFTER the std tests were all done. Even though Argent and I knew we had not had any at risk behaviors or contacts in over 20 years, we felt it was only fair if we demanded she take a test after she arrived here at our expense that we should as well. Condoms, well duh! I am still shaking my head at sex right away. lmao, and no - no one night stands in my history either, it took 2 dinner/movies at least! lmao!

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... and i did.

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(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

RE: Condoms and First Meetings - 8/8/2008 9:45:14 AM

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Here's the thing:
people have different operating patterns. I've had sex on the first meeting with quite a few of my past partners.(Hell, I've had sex within 15 minutes of meeting them). Some of those encounters even evolved into a relationship. Frankly, I've kind of surprised myself in that I never got an STD(I test completely clean for everything).

Anyhow, I've resolved to test tested EVERY 90 days whether I 'neeed' it or not-to to give strong preference to partners that do likewise. I also have started keeping records of my past tests. One test is one result at one point in time-it means something a bit different than 15 years of being STD free(and for that matter drug free).

Now I'm NOT saying that testing is a substitute for other precautions(i.e. being careful about what sex acts you perform and use of condoms). However, there are some STD's like Herpes/HSV for which testing/partner selection is one of the few things you can do(another is making sure if you do fall in love with an HSV+ partner is making sure they are on anti-viral drugs).

The nice thing about testing,it is something that can be handled even before you ever meet. I know that I for one have honestly intended to use condoms at times when I did not-I wished in that case we had actually seen each others's results(I know I had them-and she said she did-but folks do lie about such things-and some docs just aren't that careful about the tests they do).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Argentopal

Hi, I will admit that I read about half the posts and scanned the rest and my astonishment is this ..... SEX at ALL on the first visit?????? Ok, everyone stone me for being a prude, but when we were seeking a third we agreed and told evey lady we spoke to that the 1st meet/visit would be totally NO SEX!!! Play was possible if things felt right to all, but NO SEX. And in fact when we did find someone we wanted to try poly with, we 'touched' her and she 'touched' him and hands were washed throughly very soon after. But oral and no genital penetration until AFTER the std tests were all done. Even though Argent and I knew we had not had any at risk behaviors or contacts in over 20 years, we felt it was only fair if we demanded she take a test after she arrived here at our expense that we should as well. Condoms, well duh! I am still shaking my head at sex right away. lmao, and no - no one night stands in my history either, it took 2 dinner/movies at least! lmao!

(in reply to Argentopal)

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