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RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/23/2005 2:54:30 PM   
Wolf1020


Posts: 447
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline
quote:

A gift? Let's look at this. I get to feed you, clothe you, take care of you, make sure you are structured, keep you safe, guide you, watch out for your best interest, be responsible for you when you stumble, stand up for you when you can not, and generally be responsible for your happiness and well being. Gee, thanks for the gift....I'll be working the rest of my life to pay for it.....

Bears a lot of thinking!

I know that submission is given and isn't simply taken but to call it a gift? Maybe in the same ballpark but definatly a different base.

(in reply to veronicaofML)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/23/2005 9:07:20 PM   
Sabella


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirButchTX

A gift? Let's look at this. I get to feed you, clothe you, take care of you, make sure you are structured, keep you safe, guide you, watch out for your best interest, be responsible for you when you stumble, stand up for you when you can not, and generally be responsible for your happiness and well being. Gee, thanks for the gift....I'll be working the rest of my life to pay for it.....

A gift is something we can use as needed, or admire as a decoration. Often it's given as a token of esteem and friendship, even love. But every "gift" I've ever received has been something I could hold even after the giver has left the premises. This wonderous "Gift" of submission is actually a "curse" of responsibility that we accept willingly. This term "gift" in this context, to me is complete disrespect for the Dominant's intelligence.
Think about it from my point of view: You are going to give me this wonderful "gift" that I must be responsible for every day, 24/7.

Bears some thinking huh?

SirButchTX

Ahhhh this is wonderful! *clapping* I consider my "gift" to be a curse as well. Without that responsibility I'm crabby, moody, bitchy, hysterical & get generally so miserable I can't stand myself.



_____________________________

“The giant Grof was hit in one eye by a stone,
and that eye turned inward so that it looked into his mind and he died of what he saw there.”
From The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, by Patricia A. McKillip

(in reply to SirButchTX)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 5:05:51 AM   
SirButchTX


Posts: 29
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		I wish to thank everyone for their kind and humorous words. I did mean my post to be a verbal representation of my persona. I'm a little sarcastic at times, and I am pleased to see that many of you can appreciate that.
On the topic...If we really really wanted to get into metaphors and analogies, I suppose a person could see and accept their submission as a "gift" insomuch as even after they leave for whatever reason, the Dominant/Master/Top person would have the experience of that relationship as perhaps a sweet tasting afterglow, perhaps a bitter pill to swallow, or even an extremely painful cancer that may or may not eat at them until they pass this realm. So...in that light, I suppose it is a gift that keeps giving whether we really want it to or not.
Many people have come and gone in my life, both in the BDSM world and outside. Some I miss and I treasure their memories, others I don't even think about. For the ones I miss, we shared complementary lives..where we each provided something that helped "complete" the other. Some were my riding buddies, some were women, some were family all were loved. I have gifts from many of these people...I can look at the gifts and hold them in my hands, refreshing the memory of our times together. Is anyone following this train of thought? What I provide to a friend, lover or family member is my presence and my love/friendship. I do not "give" them anything tangible by being in their presence. What they take from that time with me is theirs to keep whether in their minds or hearts, or some physical "gift" I may give them.
What I'm trying to say here is that I do not necessarily disagree with "my submission is a gift", but rather, I would like people who use that phrase to understand what they are actually saying instead of over-romantasizing it, thus distorting what is truly meant.

SirButchTX

(in reply to Sabella)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 7:11:52 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		Oh, I think most of us know who is the real gift giver in our world.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 7:15:00 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

You know, I do like a good laugh. Really!

I *LOVE* all of those submissive profiles that talk about the wonderful *GIFT* of submission. Sometimes I look around for these "gifts" I was given over time, but I can't seem to find them. Sometimes I have released a submissive. Sometimes a submissive has asked for release. But these "gifts" they seem to take with them. As it is an integral part of them, I am not entirely surprised it cannot be detached. Hmmm...

But please, enough with the Indian-giving! (My sincerest apologies to my most worthy Indian brothers and sisters, I'm just trying to make a point here as it is known by this silly cliche/slur).


I think the whole gift thing is largely about being self-congratulatory. I mean there are all sorts of concepts that are rooted in patting ones self on the back (like they myth that all submissives are intelligent, confident, type A people with really challenging great jobs).

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 7:15:39 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

What I'm trying to say here is that I do not necessarily disagree with "my submission is a gift", but rather, I would like people who use that phrase to understand what they are actually saying instead of over-romantasizing it, thus distorting what is truly meant.

SirButchTX


If "over-romanticising" is the fear which drives people to distraction over the use of the "Gift" metaphor, i suggest we are being nosey parkers. If a romantic aspect to a D/s or M/s relationship is present and both parties like it, who are we to criticise them?

If instead, this is a cautionary tale for new members that not everyone is exactly as presented, well, we cannot protect all new members. i vividly remember getting beautiful emails from a sadist -- very extreme -- and before i found the "block" button he was driving me crazy with his "you are mine" claims. i had help; i would suggest that a newbie in such a position could come here for advice if this happened to her. i know in other threads we have advised people to use "block".

IMO, the people who foam at the mouth over the "Gift" metaphor are really saying they have been hurt/frustrated/annoyed by someone who used it while they disapproved of it. Generally, a submissive or slave with the "Gift" metaphor would probably say so in her/his profile; so do not contact them. And while no one admits it, Doms and Masters use it just as much.

candystripper

(in reply to SirButchTX)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 7:17:41 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		Candy, I do know what you mean, too. No big deal here...just a friendly discussion about the term. Sure, you are right, it is just a metaphor.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 7:27:52 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Candy, I do know what you mean, too. No big deal here...just a friendly discussion about the term. Sure, you are right, it is just a metaphor.

ExistentialSteel


Well if You agree with me i must be right, LOL.

candystripper

(in reply to ExistentialSteel)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 7:32:43 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

Candy, I do know what you mean, too. No big deal here...just a friendly discussion about the term. Sure, you are right, it is just a metaphor.

ExistentialSteel


Well if You agree with me i must be right, LOL.

candystripper


Touche....ha. You got me.


_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 7:36:30 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I have a friend who says "submission is a privilege, dominance is a gift." I'm not sure if I completely agree with her, but it puts this particular mindless mantra (the gift of submission) into perspective.

I think 'the gift of submission' has become as mindless a quote as 'SSC' 'RACK' and a plethora of other slogans that people cling to as proof of their experience (and unwitting proof of their lack of independent thought). But it sure sounds pretty, doesn't it? When I hear things like this from someone I usually start looking for terms like "real" and "true" followed by condescending statements of judgement and 'us and them' mentality. It's usually not far behind.

On a brighter note, it's a wonderful litmus test that requires no effort on my part! I'm all for that.




_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 8:35:49 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		I think the giftaholics are a subset of the "bdsm fairy tale" crowd and their fantasies have Prince Charming, castles and are only missing the winged pink unicorns.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to MizSuz)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 9:00:18 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

I think the whole gift thing is largely about being self-congratulatory. I mean there are all sorts of concepts that are rooted in patting ones self on the back (like they myth that all submissives are intelligent, confident, type A people with really challenging great jobs).

C~


Now here we agree... self congratulatory myth based statements such as 'submission is a gift' ', or a 'slave without limits'.

Gottsa love it.
;)
~J

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 9:44:05 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

I think the whole gift thing is largely about being self-congratulatory. I mean there are all sorts of concepts that are rooted in patting ones self on the back (like they myth that all submissives are intelligent, confident, type A people with really challenging great jobs).

C~


Now here we agree... self congratulatory myth based statements such as 'submission is a gift' ', or a 'slave without limits'.

Gottsa love it.
;)
~J


Or statements like, "I know the truth for all people..."

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to LordODiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 10:58:52 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		hummm interesting you know i have to say about intelecutal thingys is you can read all the stuff. you can write all the stuff. but inside if you do not have the stuff to be a sub or dom domme then its just not for you are core of who we are what we are is just that.
strive to be more then nilla or more then human yep its possible but starts with what you are inside on any part

namaste


(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 12:07:42 PM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Neither did I infer or exact such a statement...

I merely pointed out a fallacy of personal fantasy. If this fractures your fairy tale - well there ya go.

~J

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 12:47:45 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

Neither did I infer or exact such a statement...

I merely pointed out a fallacy of personal fantasy. If this fractures your fairy tale - well there ya go.

~J


Like I said I apologize for not realizing that you of course are the only person that knows whats true for someones personal fantasy oh wait no I mean relationship. Obviously only one of us can be telling the truth about my fairy tale oh wait no I mean relationship - so it must obviously be you.

Otherwise it would mean that you don't know what actually happens in my relationship and that is just absolutely impossible.

C~

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 11/25/2005 12:48:21 PM >

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to LordODiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 1:18:54 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Neither did I infer or exact such a statement...

I merely pointed out a fallacy of personal fantasy. If this fractures your fairy tale - well there ya go.

~J/LordofDiscipline


There was a portion of the "Rocky and Bullwinkle Show" dedicated to "Fractured Fairy Tales"; i loved them. The whole show was exciting, particulary when pauline was tied up, LOL.

candystripper

(in reply to LordODiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 1:50:54 PM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Last time around for me -

I am not speaking about your relationship - but, to a fallacy you have built up about it and around it (if indeed this is the case - tough to tell on line).

But, then that is away from the OP, which deals with 'all sorts of concepts that are rooted in patting ones self on the back', rather than being cemented in reality. (I could get some milage out of that quote)

~J

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 1:52:10 PM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Me as well -

If I am lucky enough - I watch them whenever they are on and there is the opportunity.

~J

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Gift You Give To Yourself - 11/25/2005 2:10:48 PM   
Guest
 Lets leave the titfortat discussion off board and focus on the question.

(in reply to LordODiscipline)
  Post #: 40
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