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Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 5:31:35 PM

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Joined: 8/25/2005
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Have read a number of posts that express a romantic situation in their relationship with their sub/Dom/me.

I have had a number of relationship that were service oriented. Only one where feelings became a part of it. That one ended with feelings being hurt and anger. Find that I, now, keep my feelings in check. I would allow myself to be more open to the romantic side of bdsm, if, to be honest, I had any idea how to do it without all the complications.

Would like to know how it works for those who are in love. Especially from those who have been in long term relationships/marriage. How do you keep the feelings separate from the things you enjoy__or do you? As a domme, an curious as to how a dominant can enjoy the pleasures of flogging, humiliation, etc. fully, when your partner is a part of your heart.

Open to any and all suggestions or ideas.

Mistress Ylwa

You see what power is - holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them! - Amy Tan

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 5:48:39 PM

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Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
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i realize this is from the submissive side, but....

The one M/s relationship i had which had BDSM components, were only possible because i did love deeply. While i'm not so foolish to say "i would have done anything for him" because i did (and do) have some hard limits, there were many things i did out of love for him i wouldn't have done otherwise, and things i haven't done since.

i've no idea how he would answer your question. He'd been involved in M/s, TPE years before we met so what we did wasn't new to him, just to "us".

regards,
jimini

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin

When your heart speaks take good notes.

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 5:50:43 PM

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MistressYlwa:

Master and i are married. The best way i could respond to your question is this:

1. We are in a committed relationship. That comes before all else. Saying that Master takes on the naturally Dominant role as my Master and i take on a naturally submissive role as His slave. We discuss things, he hears me out. He makes the final decisions.

2. Master never uses play to punish me. His reasons for this are that he doesnt want to confuse our playtime with something that needs correcting. Playtime is playtime for us.

3. He has said something to me..which initially confused me, that a lot of the play we do he does because i enjoy it. Now for me, that was really confusing, cuz i love playing cuz i want to think Master enjoys it and im doing it for him...but he says to me... "i love you and cherish you..why would i want to do anything that would cause you any real harm psychologically. It would be dumb of me as a Master, dumb of me as a husband, and dumb of me as a person." So finally after twising my head around that for sometime..i finally came to understand it. It doesnt mean he doesnt push my limits, it doesnt mean we dont play hard, it doesnt mean we both dont enjoy it..but thats just it..we both enjoy it...so thats gotta be good for a relationship...and i guess it is what *consensual* really means. Take humilation for example...he wouldnt go and humiliate someone in the street just to get his kicks..but he might me..cuz he knows im gonna respond..he knows im open to it..he knows i like it in some weird kinda kinky way...and he knows its not meant to harm me in any real way. So in that way, he is doing it cuz i like it... (damn hope im making sense)

So saying all that, we dont keep things separate, we just work together.

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 5:52:40 PM

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I have not been in love with all of the men and women I have trained and the select, smaller group I've owned. I have been friends with all of them.

Yes, I've had two very nasty breakups -- not so bad for 15 years of doing this (meaning I've been fully aware of what I was doing and SSC about it).

For me, love comes second.

I was training Fox as a slave for about a month before he confessed he was in love with me. I couldn't say that I was in love with him at that time, it came later for me.

Perhaps I'm a bit unusual but I find the more I'm in love, the more I can be in control and can be sadistic. For me love grows with trust and time, the same things that make me more confident and willing to do more and demande/expect more in a Ds or SM relationship.

I've met several people who have told me that falling in love made them less willing to do SM or to be in command. I find that sad and I can't fathom it really because that isn't how I work personally. I think most of those then lost that partner because the SM/Ds wasn't getting fulfilled. Very sad.

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(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 5:54:55 PM

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I'm a slave in a 24/7 relationship. If there weren't love here, I wouldn't be here. Personally, I don't know how there could be realtime 24/7 D/s relationship without it. Maybe your experiences had been with more casual relationships, so I can't talk to that at all. For us, being a D/s relationship has eliminated many of the complications of a regular relationship.

I won't presume to speak for my Master, but I have asked him how he can hurt me, and care about me. What it comes down to is that he knows I enjoy it. And even when I don't enjoy a particular activity, I benefit from the way it reinforces our relationship. When he tells me no, floggs me, forces me to get past my fear of needles, punishes me etc, it's all for our sake, for the sake of the relationship. In other words, it's good for me, whether I like it or not.

Our feelings for each other are never separate from what we do. They are a part of every activity, from the mundane to the most fantastic.

I think the question is, do you feel guilty for doing those activities, and if so, why? We wouldn't submit to them if we didn't get something out of it.

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 6:01:32 PM

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I don't separate them, I simply understand their purpose and place.

Not all dominants are sadists to begin with. And for sadists, they understand that they are simply doing what fulfills them, and that the person they are with accepts and wants to serve them, either for the pain directly or for the submission indirectly.

That's usually after a lot of soul searching and experience though. MANY good doms and sadists have a long hard time of reconciling their sadistic urges with their feelings of love.

In my relationship with the owner, we loved eachother, but love was not why we were together or the foundation of the relationship. It was simply something nice we enjoyed and that enriched the relationship. I love many people, my boyfriend and my partners, but they are not my owner.

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 6:19:43 PM

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For me, I fell in love with, and married the man who very gently showed me the joys of submission. My submission arose from my love for him, leaving me with a deep desire to please him.

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 6:22:54 PM

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Great Thread! In 3 months I will be entering 24/7 D/s with my Sir. We are very much in love with each other. We want to explore all we like about D/s, especially TPE. He is my Daddy and we want to have fun with ageplay. We want to see how I like pain, I want subspace and aftercare. In other words all of it!

But for me, without his love I don't think I would be able to trust or fully submit myself. Plus, I'm just one of them girls that likes being in love.

slavejali and nymbus you describe the type of relationship I am hoping to have with my Dom. I will have to show him this thread.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 6:49:40 PM

KittenWithaTwist

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Joined: 8/3/2005
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I feel no need to keep emotions and pain separate. I very much enjoy being hurt and my dominant very much enjoys hurting me. We both enjoy (at least on some level, if not all levels) the types of play that we engage in, including (but not limited to) blood play, humiliation and objectification, impact play, and play-rape.
I guess I'm not sure why you would feel that you cannot hurt someone that you love. If you're doing it for the pleasures of one or both parties, then I'm not sure why there would be anything to worry about.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 7:16:55 PM

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Joined: 11/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressYlwa

Would like to know how it works for those who are in love. Especially from those who have been in long term relationships/marriage. How do you keep the feelings separate from the things you enjoy__or do you? As a domme, an curious as to how a dominant can enjoy the pleasures of flogging, humiliation, etc. fully, when your partner is a part of your heart.

Sadism and Power Exchange are our sole gateway to intimacy. I can only love a woman who will take brutal violence and complete degradation from me. She can only love a man who has the need and will to knock her on her ass and use her.

The lower she goes for me, the more I love and value her.

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 8:23:16 PM

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Joined: 10/31/2005
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I cannot speak as a Dom, but only as a sub. My Dome had three slaves when I met and interviewed with her. We met at a coffee shop, with plans of dinner. When I met her at the café, I was instantly smitten with her. On a trip to the men's room, I called the restaurant, and had them scatter rose petals all over out table and seating area. At dinner, over two bottles of wine, we found ourselves kissing, laughing.
We went back to her place, opened some more wine. Half way through, she told me to put my wine glass down. I did. She told me to strip. I did.
At this point, I must confess to being a rather experienced sub. She conducted a very through, and brutal exam, went right to my "first face". She then told me that I was about to go where no man had gone in 4 years, her bedroom.... To give her credit, she did have me crawl a long way on hardwood floors to get there.
In short, we are in love. It doesn't seem (based on my previous non-romantic BDSM experiences) to interfere with the rigor of our training, if anything, hand in hand, we have pushed the edge harder than I thought possible. I guess, if nothing else, when she leans over my sweaty body after training and kisses my temple, and whispers "You did well, I'm so proud of you"... I know she means it. I have been a sub, and now have been a loved pet. Between the two? Pet... all day long.

-bear

(in reply to ErosPsyche)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 9:31:41 PM

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Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressYlwa

Have read a number of posts that express a romantic situation in their relationship with their sub/Dom/me.

I have had a number of relationship that were service oriented. Only one where feelings became a part of it. That one ended with feelings being hurt and anger. Find that I, now, keep my feelings in check. I would allow myself to be more open to the romantic side of bdsm, if, to be honest, I had any idea how to do it without all the complications.

Would like to know how it works for those who are in love. Especially from those who have been in long term relationships/marriage. How do you keep the feelings separate from the things you enjoy__or do you? As a domme, an curious as to how a dominant can enjoy the pleasures of flogging, humiliation, etc. fully, when your partner is a part of your heart.

Open to any and all suggestions or ideas.

Mistress Ylwa

I have been in a relationship with alandra since in 1987... it was without question a relationship that is very much a loving and growing relationship. I am also growing a young loving relationship with kyra that began a year ago when we first crossed paths. I also have a deepening friendship with my bottom denika and her husband were love is very much a part of the relationship. Frankly, I find it difficult to comprehend how anyone can have a intimite BDSM relationship without love being an important part of that relationship. I suppose it is done, but I have not seen it done successful over a course of many years.

My approach is simple in the relationships I am in. Out of love.. we become open to be who we are. I seek not to make my girls what they are not... I only seek to support them to shed that which is illusions of themselves... as they support me in doing the same thing. A relationship with myself is about bringing the inner self out into the open and being this person. Out of love we accept what comes. This line of thought is nothing new. A noted psychologist termed the word "congruence" Essentially it means that the more we are able to demonstrate that inner self to the world/relationships.. the more content/stable and at peace we become. We are happier. The deeper we hid this inner aspect of ourself... well it is a path of unhappiness. I see love as a vehicle to facilate this path towards happiness. It is not only path that I use... for I believe their are many strategies in building our personal happiness with ourself and our relationships.

The path I describe is one of Self-Awareness leading to Self-Acceptance leading to Self-Actualization. The interesting aspect that this path is actually circular. As we Self-actualize we are destine to become more aware of aspects of our innerself... which will lead us to need to Accept this new found awareness inorder for further acutalization to occur.

It is my belief that if we stop this cycle at any point we stop to grow in ourselves and in our relationships. We stop to bringing that inner self into the light of day and thus we establish a ceiling to our individual happiness. I suspect that many of us do this from time to time... and can actually live very happy lives to the end of our days.

Being in a relationship that is fundamentally a loving relationship promotes trust, security, validation and whole array of things that promote this cycle of growth.

I am loved... not for what I do for them... "but for who I am".... to push and bring my full awarenes of my inner self to the open to those that love me... can only grow this love... So I choose to be "Me" and enjoy the great happiness it gives me. Just as a love my girls for them being who they are. However, I do not believe I could ever enjoy the love that is give to me... nor give love my girls to the depth I do... unless we first love ourselves. "Awareness..Acceptance..Actualization" is to grow our love ourself and not just our relationships.

KoM

mmmmmmm I should proof read better... fixing a couple things

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 11/11/2005 9:40:19 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 9:49:44 PM

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Joined: 2/2/2005
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We have been married for 19 years and only in the last five have we gotten into BDSM, mostly moving towards TPE. She tried from the very beginning to tell me that she needed me to take control, that in a relationship between equals she feels alone, but neither one of us could get our minds around it. Neither one of us wanted to go there. Many years of drama and conflict later we have both come around to understanding that everything works better in our relationship when I am master and she is slave. We tried everything that the Church and society advertise as solutions to marrage problems and nothing worked, we knew that over the years there have been some strong BDSM flavor to our most intimate moments, so we thought that we may as well give this a try. For us BDSM is all about the relationship.

We have not done a lot yet in bondage or pain, but when we do love has everything to do with it. I love how it lights her up, I love to see her grow from the experiance. She loves that I will do these things for her because I know that she needs it. There are some aspects of being in charge that I have enjoyed exploring but in truth this is all about what my wife needs. Only as a submissive has she been able to approach happyness.

The journey has been slow but mostly steady. This week we will sign a slave contract that is almost in final form, only a few words not agreed to yet. This is a big step for us, as for the first time my control of huge chunks of our relationship will be complete. SHe will not be allowed to safeword or opt out of many things, and I will become more demanding in the quality of her service. We are very far from where I expect we will end up, for instance I am sure that she is a pain junkie because the few times I have inflicted heavy pain on her she has loved it, but right now she insists that she does not like pain. Still, we have come a long way from our unhappy vanilla life already.

(in reply to BeachBear)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 10:08:44 PM

perverseangelic

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From: Davis, Ca
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I think sometimes it becomes difficult when one parter is more interested in bdsm than the other, yet you are both very romantically attached. It becomes difficult because there's then the choice of remaining in a romantically fufilling relationship or being in a relationship of the style you generally prefer.

I think in situations like that, one has to choose which is more important. Neither choice, to me, is better or worse, but I think it's critical that the choice is -made- otherwise, in my experience, resentment simmers and gets worse. If one can sit down and figure out whether the spesific partner, or the power dynamic itself is more important, one can act accordingly.

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(in reply to ICGsteve)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 10:53:25 PM

redheadedfire4u

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Joined: 11/11/2005
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I am reasonably new to L/s but have found happiness like I have never known and a freedom I did not know was even possible and accept my submissiveness with open arms. I have found a Dom who touches my heart and to my suprise a sister in His girl who also reaches inside and touches me... love ... it is probably to early to say but definately well along the path ... but I can not imagine such trust being earned or recieved if these feelings were not there ... when he takes me by the hand and leads me to these places I have never been it is the care in His heart and in His eyes that makes me feel safe and gives me the courage to follow Him ... Pain something I feared and yet have found to my suprise that I enjoy it, that it hieghtens my sexuality in ways I would not have beleived, his pleasure from my pleasure enhances the whole experience but the knowledge that He will be there with His arms arround me at the end is what makes me meet His demands and push forward to find my boundries again if these feelings of fledgling love were not there, I do not think I could or would trust Him to take me there ... so for me I feel love is an intricate part of a BDSM relationship and that with out it I would never be all that I can be ... to be the sub of my master's heart is my ultimate place.

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 11:07:34 PM

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From: Swift Current
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I find that love and BDSM do go hand in hand. There are people who can have sex with anyone. And then there are those who need an emotional connection.
We do not have off time in our relationship.
You know this is a lot harder to explain then I thought it would be. But is has worked for us for 5 years so… I dunno LOL
Tony

(in reply to MistressYlwa)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/11/2005 11:54:30 PM

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Joined: 10/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ICGsteve
Still, we have come a long way from our unhappy vanilla life already.

What a touching and inspiring post. It's wonderful to hear of a couple who have worked together to address one partner's growing awareness of their need for submission, so successfully.

We hear so often from submissives who just can't approach their long-term partner because they know, often without a shadow of a doubt, that their partner's reaction would be one of disgust and outrage. I know these stories often make me sad.

Thank you for sharing this story of what love really is all about...the desire and willingness to push past your own limits to do what fulfills your partner...

Perhaps in that, there is a message for the OP...

Many dom/mes can dominate the ones they love simply because they do love them.

Cin

_____________________________

...aka Vancouver_cinful (New ID for technical reasons)

quote:

If ever thou be'st bound in thy scarf and beaten,
thou shalt find what it is to be proud of thy bondage.
~ W. Shakespeare ~

(in reply to ICGsteve)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/12/2005 12:09:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenxx
There are people who can have sex with anyone. And then there are those who need an emotional connection.

And there are those who do both.

Although really I don't think I could have sex with ANYONE, I have said no to many people. But, in the relevant terms you are discussing, I am able to have completely non-attached sexual relationships and completely attached emotional relationships. In fact I gain great fulfillment from both.

(in reply to Phoenxx)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/12/2005 12:10:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hedonisticToy
Thank you for sharing this story of what love really is all about...the desire and willingness to push past your own limits to do what fulfills your partner...

That's not what love is about to me at all. Just because a vanilla partner doesn't become a dominant doesn't mean they don't love their wife enough.

(in reply to hedonisticToy)

RE: Love in BDSM - 11/12/2005 12:14:50 AM

Kasia

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From: The Coast of Adria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenxx

I find that love and BDSM do go hand in hand. There are people who can have sex with anyone. And then there are those who need an emotional connection.

For you BDSM and love go hand in hand. For me they dont. I am looking for sexual and personal service not love or romance.
And I cannot have sex with anyone, I have to at least like the way person looks - in fact I am quite picky in that. But I can have sex without any emotional connection just for pleasure.
We are all different people.

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I DO have profile - just lost an S somewhere along the way

Kassia

(in reply to Phoenxx)

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