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Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/15/2008 2:11:34 PM   
ftmboyfag


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Hey all,

I apologize if this has been done. I looked and didn't find anything other than what I know already.

So, my new boyfriend and myself didn't use protection after the first time. (We both pretty much were like "This is a bad idea" "Yeah, it is" and did it anyway. How stupid! It's totally not worth the worry.)

After having unprotected sex, how much can condoms really protect us? Haven't we both been exposed to whatever we could have been exposed to already?

I'm looking for complicated answers, please. I know we did a bad bad thing and I'm certainly not going to do it again!


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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/15/2008 3:08:28 PM   
windchymes


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My first impression was that you meant protection against unwanted pregnancy, but then I noticed your ID name and thought I'd better check the profile.....

Most likely, nothing happened from one encounter and using protection from now on is the smart, responsible and common-sense thing to do.  HOWEVER........

HIV:   if either of you is positive, it's possible it could have been passed along to the other with one sexual encounter.  Anal sex is one of the easiest forms of transmission because of the likelihood of tearing of the mucous membrane (and I'm assuming from what you said that the two of you had full-blown anal sex).  Obviously, this is a worst-case scenario, but theoretically, no, if this happened, it wouldn't do any good to use protection again.  Unfortunately, if the virus was passed from one of you to the other, tests won't detect it for at least 2 or 3 months, and might not detect it for 6 months to a year afterwards.  The best thing to do here, to protect yourselves, and to keep from potentially infecting any one else (if you're not going to stay monogamous to each other) is to get tested now, get tested at 3 months, 6 months and one year after this encounter.  Use protection EVERY TIME.  If you both test negative at 6 months, you're probably in the clear, and at one year, almost definitely in the clear....if you've not had unprotected sex with anyone else during that time.   On the other hand, it's possible to have HIV and have many sexual encounters and not pass it along.  SO....my advice is to start using protection, use it every time from now on and get tested, both of you. 

Genital Herpes:  It's most often passed along when the infected partner has open sores and then come into contact with their partners' skin.  However, an infected person can "shed" the virus through bodily fluids and/or mucous membranes while not having any symptoms.  If you have contacted the virus for the first time, you'll know it in about a week to 10 days.  You'll start having a tingly itchy feeling under the skin at the point where the virus entered your body (probably on your genitals somewhere, around the anus and rectum, possibly even on the inner thighs).  You might also feel crappy, have some localized pain in the lymph nodes that are near the site, maybe a fever.  After a day or two of this, the itchy blisters appear, then crust or scab over, and heal in about a week or so. There's no cure for this one, you're stuck with it for life, and you can infect other people if you're unprotected.  Some people have no symptoms at all, however.  Blood tests can see if you are a carrier.  If you do have it, then no, it won't do any good to use protection.  But, once again, it's possible to have it and have many sexual encounters, but be lucky enough not to have passed it along.  So, start using protection until you know for sure.

Gonorrhea, Syphilis:  Usually, if you have it, you know.  But, it's possible to have it (especially gonorrhea) and not have symptoms, and pass it along.  Start using protection till you know for sure.  Seeing a pattern here?

In a nutshell, yes, there absolutely are reasons to use protection, even though you didn't the first time.  Hope this was complicated enough!  

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/15/2008 4:51:40 PM   
StrongSpirit


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windchymes is correct.

I would also add that as difficult as it is to believe, people do occasionally have sex with more than one other person.  Worse, they don't always inform the other person that, 'hey, I know we he had sex last week, but yesterday, when you were bored, I went out and got hammered ... than I went and got hammered again.'

So, YES, you should be using condoms, even though you didn't the first time.  He/you might find a third and catch something then.

Until you have had a long term relationship that you are convinced neither will cheat, USE THE CONDOM.

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/15/2008 8:09:33 PM   
HeavansKeeper


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Windchymes has a great point, but I'd like to add that HIV transferrence rates are as low as ~30% for oral, 50% for vaginal, and 65% for anal sex.  While these odds are WAY to high for me, it's possible to have unprotected sex with an infected person and not get the disease...  But you chance fate.  If you're both clean and don't cheat, unprotected sex isn't horrible.  Those are big if's, though.

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/15/2008 8:46:21 PM   
glanstat


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30% for oral?  That sounds awfully high to me. 

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/16/2008 5:54:03 AM   
sub4hire


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quote:

ORIGINAL: glanstat

30% for oral?  That sounds awfully high to me. 


Oral sex is sex you know. 

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/16/2008 1:18:35 PM   
tkenslve


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Where did you get your percentages from? The oral sex percent seems high to me too, everything i have read says only that it is very hard to calculate the actual risk with oral sex. Just curious to know where you got hard numbers from.Thanks

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/16/2008 2:34:59 PM   
HeavansKeeper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tkenslve

Where did you get your percentages from? The oral sex percent seems high to me too, everything i have read says only that it is very hard to calculate the actual risk with oral sex. Just curious to know where you got hard numbers from.Thanks


I've read rates all over - if you do a google search with "HIV" (sometimes denoted as AIDS) "rates" and "Transmission" (or transfusion) you'll get boatloads of research.  Some are rates teachers told me, some I read (unvalidated on the internet), some I got from peer reviewed research.  I chose to go with the ones that increase logically.  30% might be high (might be low?) But its impossible to find research that is comprehensive.

There are other factors as well, poverty, race (maybe?), diet, previous diseases, depression, drug use, etc. to make it even less clear as to what the real odds are. 

Edit: Typo.

< Message edited by HeavansKeeper -- 7/16/2008 2:36:07 PM >


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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/16/2008 2:41:29 PM   
persephonee


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condoms....always and without exception....condoms

sheesh.

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/16/2008 2:56:48 PM   
ftmboyfag


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Thanks so much for all your great replies, especially windchymes, StrongSpirit, and HeavansKeeper! I always like to be as informed as possible, but couldn't find anything more than what I knew.

windchymes, you're so awesomely informative! I also appreciate your noticing my trans-ness and replying appropriately. I know that transpeople are more visible in this community so more people are educated about it, but I definitely don't take it for granted.

persephonee, you're totally right. A little extra sensation isn't worth all that risk and worry at all! I'm totally not doing that again until we're both totally cleared by a doctor. D and I will be safe from now on.


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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/16/2008 3:00:46 PM   
tkenslve


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quote:

if you do a google search with "HIV" (sometimes denoted as AIDS) "rates" and "Transmission" (or transfusion) you'll get boatloads of research.


i did that actually, before asking about your numbers and couldnt find anything that gave a definite percentage for oral sex, hence the reason i asked where you got your info from. Thanks

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/16/2008 5:37:16 PM   
StrongSpirit


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Oral sex transmission rates.

First, there is a big difference between transmission rates for male oral sex and for female oral sex.  In general, lesbian oral sex is much safer (but not 100%, so use the dental dam).

Second, I have been informed that oral sex, even male, is much much less than 30% transmission rate.   I believe their is only one confirmed case where AIDS was proven to be transmitted orally.  

Still, use the condom.  Your life is worth more than even a .03% chance, because hopefully you will end up doing it a LOT, and 1000 x .03% = 30%


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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/16/2008 7:15:46 PM   
windchymes


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You're welcome. 

_____________________________

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Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/16/2008 7:49:24 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: glanstat

30% for oral?  That sounds awfully high to me. 


The mouth very often has tiny cuts in it that you won't notice and these allow the transmission. Bit your cheek last week? That's an opening for a virus. Burn your tongue on hot coffee? Ditto. We normally don't notice these things or remember them because they don't hurt long, but until you'll fully healed you are at risk.

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/20/2008 8:16:04 AM   
Highlands


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There are several parts to sexual safety:
effective use of condoms
regular STD testing

The last isn't applicable in your situation because you have made your choice. If you have ever not used a condom, testing becomes more important. You can get a GOOD
screen at AIM Foundation for about $300. That will test for  almost everything for which tests are readily available. There are less expensive testing resources, but the tests they use aren't as effective. Testing is important if you haven't always been careful because you may be carrying any of several STD's and not know it.

Also, some STD's are relatively hard to get.  Some aren't. STD's also have strange interactions where presence of one infection may mean other infections are easier to get.

Condoms are NOT a silver bullet. Condoms reduce risk. In large populations, condoms can reduce the rate of increase of some diseases.  If you use condoms consistently,your lifetime risk  is lower than if you don't.

A lot of folks get careless because the risk of AIDS from one condom free/untested encounter isn't that great. The thing is, if you do that over a lifetime the odds add up considerably-especially if you are selecting partners from a higher risk community.

Now, assessing the risk of a specific person is hard. Many folks don't necessarily announce if they have been using IV drugs, having sex with IV drug users or having anonymous sex. Only 80% of those with AIDS actually know their status-and many of the most infectious people don't know their status(aids is especially contagious right after infection)



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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/20/2008 8:59:55 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

After having unprotected sex, how much can condoms really protect us? Haven't we both been exposed to whatever we could have been exposed to already?

Short answer: No.

Longer answer:

STDs (including HIV) are not necessarily transmitted with each act of intercourse.  If you continue going bareback, eventually whatever creepy crawlies the one partner has will migrate to the other, but if you start using condoms again, you reduce the chance of that happening.

However, of far greater concern to you is your use of the phrase "whatever we could have".  That suggests to my mind that you don't know whether you are disease free, and that you likely didn't know that when you entered into this relationship.  GO GET TESTED--BOTH OF YOU.  Know whether both of you are disease free, or if either one of you has an STD.

There is no protection better than knowledge.  Get some. Get tested.


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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/20/2008 10:55:12 AM   
Missokyst


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There are more diseases than AIDs out there.  Jr High schools around here had an outbreak of gonoreah (bad spelling!) and herpes due to oral sex.
LOL you know its bad when it hits the local newspaper.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit
I believe their is only one confirmed case where AIDS was proven to be transmitted orally.  


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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/20/2008 12:33:30 PM   
Highlands


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>There are more diseases than AIDs out there.  Jr High schools around here had an outbreak of gonoreah (bad spelling!) >and herpes due to oral sex.
Porn actors get tested for EVERYTHING every 6 months and HIV, Gonnorhea and Chlamydia
monthly. HIV is of course potentially fatal-and  Gonnorhea and Chlamydia spread VERY rapidly.

I knew a swinger group in the bay area that had an STD testing protocol prior to AIDS and their policy was to retest EVERY member as soon as they saw one case of Chlamydia. It just spread so rapidly and there were claims of non-sexual transmission.

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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/20/2008 12:43:35 PM   
Highlands


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quote:

There is no protection better than knowledge. Get some. Get tested.


I would ad to this:get retested periodically.  Porn actors get tested for everything every 6 months and G/C/HIV monthly. Now those folks are VERY sexually active, but I would strongly suggest annual  checkups for EVERYONE for EVERYTHING-and quarterly checkups for G/C/HIV.

There is hardly anything people lie about more than sex outside their relationship. Ask to see your partner's the test results--and make sure they are tested for HIV, Hep A/B/C, Syphillis, Gonnorhea, Chlamydia, HSV at least once a year. Ask for recent test results from all your partners-and encourage your primary partner(s) to do the same.

I'm not saying this is a substitute for condoms-but two mechanisms of prevention are better than one. AIM foundation has a lot of interesting claims about reduction of incidence  STD's in the porn actor community by relying on universal testing and some condom use. They aren't draconian about it. A lot of porn actors have HSV-but they either act with folks that have a similar status or are VERY careful.









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RE: Protection - Effective After Being Dumb? - 7/20/2008 12:47:22 PM   
BKSir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

My first impression was that you meant protection against unwanted pregnancy, but then I noticed your ID name and thought I'd better check the profile.....

Most likely, nothing happened from one encounter and using protection from now on is the smart, responsible and common-sense thing to do.  HOWEVER........

HIV:   if either of you is positive, it's possible it could have been passed along to the other with one sexual encounter.  Anal sex is one of the easiest forms of transmission because of the likelihood of tearing of the mucous membrane (and I'm assuming from what you said that the two of you had full-blown anal sex).  Obviously, this is a worst-case scenario, but theoretically, no, if this happened, it wouldn't do any good to use protection again.  Unfortunately, if the virus was passed from one of you to the other, tests won't detect it for at least 2 or 3 months, and might not detect it for 6 months to a year afterwards.  The best thing to do here, to protect yourselves, and to keep from potentially infecting any one else (if you're not going to stay monogamous to each other) is to get tested now, get tested at 3 months, 6 months and one year after this encounter.  Use protection EVERY TIME.  If you both test negative at 6 months, you're probably in the clear, and at one year, almost definitely in the clear....if you've not had unprotected sex with anyone else during that time.   On the other hand, it's possible to have HIV and have many sexual encounters and not pass it along.  SO....my advice is to start using protection, use it every time from now on and get tested, both of you. 

Genital Herpes:  It's most often passed along when the infected partner has open sores and then come into contact with their partners' skin.  However, an infected person can "shed" the virus through bodily fluids and/or mucous membranes while not having any symptoms.  If you have contacted the virus for the first time, you'll know it in about a week to 10 days.  You'll start having a tingly itchy feeling under the skin at the point where the virus entered your body (probably on your genitals somewhere, around the anus and rectum, possibly even on the inner thighs).  You might also feel crappy, have some localized pain in the lymph nodes that are near the site, maybe a fever.  After a day or two of this, the itchy blisters appear, then crust or scab over, and heal in about a week or so. There's no cure for this one, you're stuck with it for life, and you can infect other people if you're unprotected.  Some people have no symptoms at all, however.  Blood tests can see if you are a carrier.  If you do have it, then no, it won't do any good to use protection.  But, once again, it's possible to have it and have many sexual encounters, but be lucky enough not to have passed it along.  So, start using protection until you know for sure.

Gonorrhea, Syphilis:  Usually, if you have it, you know.  But, it's possible to have it (especially gonorrhea) and not have symptoms, and pass it along.  Start using protection till you know for sure.  Seeing a pattern here?

In a nutshell, yes, there absolutely are reasons to use protection, even though you didn't the first time.  Hope this was complicated enough!  


Windchymes.  Thank you.  You saved me from having to type all that out myself, and said what I was about to, nearly word for word. ;)

ftmboyfag:  Yes, wholeheartedly, what Windchymes said.


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