quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
I made a greater effort to learn about the history of BDSM upon hearing a comment from Midori encouraging it. I have learned about it over time by soaking in bits here and there, and I am glad to have learned it.

What do you think those outside the leather culture can do to that would help you feel that they recognize the culture exists or are being respectful of the culture?

Cheers,

Sea

Hello Sea,

First, I'd like to thank you for providing such wonderful explanations to some of the questions and comments that have come up in this thread.  It's great to see that you had an interest sparked and took the initiative to learn about people's ways that might be different than your own.

I actually think many people are respectful of the culture.   While most people aren't going to put the time and effort that you obviously have to learn about it, I think the majority of the time, people are courteous enough to accept that it exists.  Really, that's all anyone can ask.  It's actually quite rare that I find someone being specifically disrespectful (which was actually what spurned the OP) but it does happen. 

I'm generally a simple person, so I tend to use a simple analogy to explain how it might be looked at.  Many people of Japanese decent don't wear the shoes that they have worn outside, when they are inside their home.  To do so is disrespectful.  You or I might not wear our shoes inside our home, simply because we don't want to get the carpet dirty.  Same action.  Two different reasons.  Or, we might be the type to wear our shoes in our own home, but when we go to our Japanese friend's home, because of the way they live, we take our shoes off at the door.  We may not believe that bringing in the outside dirt into the house as a sign of disrespect, but they certainly do.  We certainly wouldn't be trodding through their living room in our sneakers.

Now, let's parallel that to something in the leather culture.  I received My Cover (that's the term you were looking for when you were talking about a Master's Cap) in April from a man that I greatly admire.  Obviously, I am not it's first owner.  My Cap has a history.  In the ceremony that it was presented to Me, it was explained why I was receiving it.  This man, along with My husband, My submissive, and other members of My leather family, felt that I had 'earned' this leather, because of the way I have dedicated Myself to living this life, the skills that I have learned as a Dominant, My service to the community, and My work to help further education of this lifestyle.  (And, yep, you're right about it being an emotional thing.  I cried.)  It may look just like the one that another person bought at the fetish store yesterday, but to Me, Mine means something.  I don't ask that the person who bought theirs hold the same meaning to it as I do.  I just don't, figuratively, want them to trod through the living room wearing sneakers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
Which is why I asked what are the criteria?
We see a lot of this "earning leathers" "old gaurd" bandied about but there doesn't seem to be any defining moment that grants someone that "right" to leathers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I wear leather because it looks good.  I wear a collar only when playing and have never wanted to engage in a relationship with someone who thought that collars meant more than play.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
My dominant gave me my leather jacket so I wouldnt burn another nylon shirt off if we spilled the bike again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Where does someone like me then fit in?

This is not a fetish for me. You will never see me in fetish anything.

But I also do buy into the "Old Guard" mentality. As a historian and a teacher I can appreciate it but I can't embrace or even say I think it's a good path for most people.

Just FYI I go to events like IML and I feel right at home, I go to GLLA and I feel right at home. I think the only time I haven't felt at home was when someone attempted to promote one method that everyone had to use or you weren't "real".

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I wear leather because it looks good.  I wear a collar only when playing and have never wanted to engage in a relationship with someone who thought that collars meant more than play.
Kyst

Fair enough.  At the same time, can you also accept that to someone else, that collar might have a significant meaning?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
My dominant gave me my leather jacket so I wouldnt burn another nylon shirt off if we spilled the bike again.

Hon, that last part is just smart.  Being someone who's butt has also hit the asphalt,  it's just good sense to protect your body when you're on a bike.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

....I think my biggest issue is not so much the symbol, as the idea that it somehow makes one real. 
I feel the same way about earning leather.  One either does this or one does not.  I see the term used as if it is something great and honorable but they lay no foundation.  Or few do.
That is why I choose carefully.  I have never been a symbol oriented person. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

The analogies drawn here between earning a Ph.D, MD, sworn status as a LEO, combat medal, and so forth miss the vital distinction that you have noticed right away... in these cases there is a codified standard, and a recognized authority deciding who has earned the honor.  There may be many differences, but the similarities are stronger.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam
Those in the lifestyle

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I'm cynical and I tend to ridicule people that consider themselves to be part of some magical, special subculture.  I just don't understand an adult calling someone a "poser."  It's just ridiculous and juvenile sounding to me. 

Whether you're "old guard", a biker, punk, goth, emo, surfer, skater, headbanger, hippie, beatnick, mod, greaser, rocker, hacker, jet, shark, butcher, baker, candlestick maker, blah, blah, blah.....please don't bore me with your pretentious bullshit about how you are "REAL."  I'm not in junior high anymore.   I am not impressed by people that give long, boring, self-involved, pretentious lectures on how they were (place your fad here)  doing it before all the "trendies" starting doing it.  I'm going to make the universal jerk-off hand gesture during your boring little speech, than I am going to ask you what grade you're in. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

i think this is often a conflict between lifestylers, and people who just find leather sexy. i am not sure if it still happnes, but when i was growing up in London, young boxers resented people wearing the Lonsdale sportswear. I suspect most people copying a fashion staement are paying it a compliment, and not meaning any harm, although there are exceptions to this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dari


And LP - here's an interesting conundrum - I don't wear my shoes in the house because it's a sign of disrespect.  It's a piece of culture I've adopted from the East (my friend calls me a closet-Asian), and I feel it rather strongly.  People who wear shoes in my house are not really welcome in my house.  So now, bringing this back to the leathers - what do you think of those who adopt certain customs piecemeal?  For instance, if within my particular group of friends, we decide that while anyone can buy whatever leather they want, having leather specifically given to you, with a meaning behind it, is a symbol of something earned, rather than just something bought.  Are we then intruding into the leather community?  Are we somehow corrupting it, or becoming "posers," or showing disrespect for a culture, by selecting a piece that we think is meaningful, and adopting its meaning for our own?

Or is this simply a sign of the evolution of a culture in the standard ways?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I'm cynical and I tend to ridicule people that consider themselves to be part of some magical, special subculture.  I just don't understand an adult calling someone a "poser."  It's just ridiculous and juvenile sounding to me. 

Whether you're "old guard", a biker, punk, goth, emo, surfer, skater, headbanger, hippie, beatnick, mod, greaser, rocker, hacker, jet, shark, butcher, baker, candlestick maker, blah, blah, blah.....please don't bore me with your pretentious bullshit about how you are "REAL."  I'm not in junior high anymore.   I am not impressed by people that give long, boring, self-involved, pretentious lectures on how they were (place your fad here)  doing it before all the "trendies" starting doing it.  I'm going to make the universal jerk-off hand gesture during your boring little speech, than I am going to ask you what grade you're in. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: HagiaSophia
what about those who enjoy leather as a fetish, but not power exchange? If your fetish is leather, must you go through the leather community (a community of primarily gay and lesbian kinksters who focus on power exchange)? I think not. What if the leather fetishist is unaware of leather communities, what if there aren't any where she or he lives?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I don't ask that the person who bought theirs hold the same meaning to it as I do.  I just don't, figuratively, want them to trod through the living room wearing sneakers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad

(fast reply)

On a totally side note and I don't mean to hijack this thread, but  ... who wears their shoes in the house?  I am Canadian and have never met anyone up here who would think it was good manners to wear their shoes indoors.  Even at large formal gatherings there is always a heap of shoes just inside the door.  If someone feels that shoes 'make the outfit' then they bring along a clean pair to wear exclusively indoors.  Seriously, are their folks who wear their shoes in the house?

Wickad