Intimacy... (Full Version)

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TreasureKY -> Intimacy... (7/19/2008 3:30:04 AM)

There are, of course, various forms of intimacy in life, but when it comes to human interaction, I think of a deep intimate relationship as being one that involves the inmost depths of the mind... the ability to share uncensored thoughts and feelings and truly connect with someone.  I say "truly connect" because I believe there is difference between communicating with someone with genuine reciprocal interest and understanding, and simply being allowed to ramble on and be listened to.

Perhaps I'm a bit jaded in my thinking, but I believe a lot of men prefer to avoid this kind of intimacy with a woman... or perhaps just avoid this kind of intimacy, all together.  I do believe that women, in general, are much more attuned to exploring and discussing their feelings and emotional ideas... and I've rarely met a man who was interested in doing so... at least beyond what was necessary to satisfy the woman he was interested in so that he could get into her pants.  [;)]

Generally, I think men and women just communicate differently reflecting an alternative perspective (and sometimes opposing) on priorities, interests, and ideas.

At any rate, I would assume that a lot of people consider their most intimate relationship in this context to be their partner as it seems common for the terms "confidant" and "best friend" is used to describe them.  However, as D/s relationships can be structured somewhat differently, I thought it might be interesting to see how this plays out when a dominant is in a position to dictate conversation topics.

As dominant, do you veto or discourage this kind of intimacy with your sub?  Do you require it?  Do you consider or desire your D/s relationship to be this kind of intimate relationship?

As a submissive, do you feel there is this kind of intimacy lacking in your relationship or do you feel pressured to foster this kind of intimacy?  Do you consider or desire your D/s relationship to be this kind of intimate relationship?



MidMichCowboy -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 4:32:52 AM)

I not only encourage it, I demand it. This is from my profile:

I want someone who will understand and need my dominance as I need her submission. Looking for a lady to cherish, love and use. I want her to grow and find her interests and place in life. A relationship is at its best when people mirror their needs and fit together. Intelligent, feisty, loving, kinky and adventuresome are the words that describe the lady I am looking for.

I don't think of relationships as a game or play. I guess I've matured beyond that. Now, I want someone to complete my life.




eyesopened -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 4:54:04 AM)

i see intimacy as being a shared vulnerability.  my Master can share His weaknesses with me because they are safe with me.  Part of my job as slave is to protect my Master and that means He trusts me not only with His Dominance but with His vulnerabilities as well. 

i think a lot of women tend to see a man's vulnerability as a negative, they may attack any sign of weakness.  Sharing the dark places of His mind is a vulnerable act.  By knowing that i will safeguard my Master's vulnerability, He is able to be truly intimate.



DarkSteven -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 5:16:56 AM)

My answer would depend.

I do encourage intimate talk, but only in a disciplined way.  I have had women discuss their feelings for half an hour or more and essentially rehash the same thing repeatedly.  I have also had complaint sessions that were masked as "feelings".

I guess for me, the topic is not the concern as much as the way in which it's discussed.





slaveluci -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 5:35:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
As dominant, do you veto or discourage this kind of intimacy with your sub?  Do you require it?  Do you consider or desire your D/s relationship to be this kind of intimate relationship?

Master desires and requires it.  He often says that's part of what makes our relationship so special to Him - the fact that He can have such unlimited intimacy.  He knows things about me that no one else on Earth does and He has discussed with me things He says no one else is privy to.  I've never had that degree of openness with anyone else nor Has he.
quote:

As a submissive, do you feel there is this kind of intimacy lacking in your relationship or do you feel pressured to foster this kind of intimacy?  Do you consider or desire your D/s relationship to be this kind of intimate relationship?

Somedays I desire it more than others,[;)] but in the end I feel fortunate to have such a deep level of intimacy.  Sometimes, when more difficult subjects are involved, I wish He wouldn't delve so deep, so to speak.  But, when the discussion is through, there's always that feeling of relief that, no matter what I show Him or share, it never negatively affects us.  That's the payoff of true intimacy.  Never having it come back to haunt you or have your truths used against you. 

We both desire this deeper level of intimacy.....................luci



slaveluci -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 5:39:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

i see intimacy as being a shared vulnerability.  my Master can share His weaknesses with me because they are safe with me.  Part of my job as slave is to protect my Master and that means He trusts me not only with His Dominance but with His vulnerabilities as well. 

i think a lot of women tend to see a man's vulnerability as a negative, they may attack any sign of weakness.  Sharing the dark places of His mind is a vulnerable act.  By knowing that i will safeguard my Master's vulnerability, He is able to be truly intimate.

Beautifully stated, eyesopened, and so true.  This is what I was TRYING to express as far as Master's view of such intimacy.  He says it overwhelms Him sometimes just how much of Himself He is willing to expose to me.  "Vulnerable" is definitely the word.  When being "vulnerable" to someone we know won't hurt us with what we share, it's an amazing feeling indeed[:)].............luci



chamberqueen -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 5:46:16 AM)

As is the case with a lot of my relationship, there are double standards.  I am encouraged to open up my heart and share with my Master.  He sometimes shares with me the things that He is going through.  I have found that He simply isn't very good at sharing His feelings with me.  Frankly, that hurts my feelings sometimes.  I know that O/our relationship is not a romance, and that He does not love me.  He often tells me He is proud of me but rarely anything beyond that.  Sometimes I see His feelings in His actions, and sometimes I don't.  I know He fosters in me a need for Him.  Sometimes I wish that I could see that the need for me, not just the need for me to finish tasks, was obvious.  (I know, I need to talk with Him about it.)



lusciouslips19 -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 6:04:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

As is the case with a lot of my relationship, there are double standards.  I am encouraged to open up my heart and share with my Master.  He sometimes shares with me the things that He is going through.  I have found that He simply isn't very good at sharing His feelings with me.  Frankly, that hurts my feelings sometimes.  I know that O/our relationship is not a romance, and that He does not love me.  He often tells me He is proud of me but rarely anything beyond that.  Sometimes I see His feelings in His actions, and sometimes I don't.  I know He fosters in me a need for Him.  Sometimes I wish that I could see that the need for me, not just the need for me to finish tasks, was obvious.  (I know, I need to talk with Him about it.)


Not everyone wants or requires love. But I do. In my last relationship, that ended about a month ago, I was not loved and I found it ultimately frustrating. Now I have miraculously found someone that already wants to own me and can open his heart and share his feelings. Maybe some find it wrong for a sub to want to know shes adored by her Sir. However its what I need. The need to be needed and wanted and missed and for someone to be feeling like a teenager because they met me. I was willing to settle for less but I am glad I was released and therefore available for my hearts desire.



cantilena -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 6:14:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
As a submissive, do you feel there is this kind of intimacy lacking in your relationship or do you feel pressured to foster this kind of intimacy?  Do you consider or desire your D/s relationship to be this kind of intimate relationship?


He's not the kind of man who consciously focuses on this sort of thing, so no...  I don't feel pressure at all from him to foster emotional intimacy. 

On the other hand, neither do I feel it's necessarily lacking. Heightened intimacy is definitely one of the driving benefits of D/s for me.  For us, it's more a natural product of the relationship dynamic than an acknowledged goal in itself.



TreasureKY -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 6:30:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

My answer would depend.

I do encourage intimate talk, but only in a disciplined way.  I have had women discuss their feelings for half an hour or more and essentially rehash the same thing repeatedly.  I have also had complaint sessions that were masked as "feelings".

I guess for me, the topic is not the concern as much as the way in which it's discussed.



lol... I'm sorry, but this is a perfect example of the kind of differences that I mentioned.  Thank you for your direct answer.

In my experience, most men have a limited capacity for talking to a woman about emotions and feelings.  They might tolerate a small amount when it suits their purposes, but after that they'd prefer the woman shut up.  Now, if the topic were sports, or cars, or movies, or computers, or politics... more is better.  [;)]

Thing is, a lot of women need the emotional discussion to feel that intimate connection.  By denying or limiting her capacity to engage you in what she feels is an in-depth conversation, you might be denying her intimacy. 

In your opinion, what is a "disciplined way"?  Would it bother you to find out that your partner felt that your relationship was not intimate?



brat4fun -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 7:15:04 AM)

If I'm with a casual partner I don't particularly want anything in the way of intimacy.  "C'mere, let's have some fun.... Wow, that was great. I'll call you in a week or two."  That's pretty much as in-depth as I want to get.  For my emotional protection, and that of my partner.

When looking to form a lasting relationship with someone, however, I would feel like something huge was being left out if we didn't share things with one another.  To me it's a sign on trust.  Intimacy is ammo.  It's handing someone a piece of information and saying, "You could shred me with this, but I'm trusting you not to."

There's also a difference in the level of physical intimacy that I keep for close relationships.  I'm a cuddler.  I like to hold and touch and giggle.  However, I generally don't sleep with casual f***-buddies.  Sleep is reserved for someone that I can trust, essentially, with my life.

With casual friends I feel the need to be cheery and up-beat around them... and to keep myself away when I'm in a bad mood.  I've had times when I'm on-line that I haven't really wanted to talk to people... I stay invisible on Yahoo, except to my Sir.  He's not "people"... he's the person that I'm falling for.  I've shared things with him that I've only told to two other people (former Daddy and sis).  I've told him things that generally make me want to curl up into a little ball and hide and not communicate with ANYONE until I get settled.... yet I've asked him for a phone call so that I could get a sort of verbal "hug".  While we were talking on-line about something, I told him that I was near tears.  That's something I almost never do, since I enjoy the emotional privacy that IM allows.

*happy sigh*  I don't want to pull this off on the "I have a great Sir" tangent, so I'll stop rambling there.  lol

Back to the question at hand... yes, I want that level of deep intimacy with a partner, but not necessarily a playmate.

lil Aidan



Quivver -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 7:30:46 AM)

Guilty as charged, emotional intimacy is a must have.  Without it there is no relationship, no burning deisre to serve. 
But I feel the need to qualify the subject of intimacy ... personally I think I'm not alone in my thoughts on this. 
Although I need the comfort of intimacy to be able to speak, I think many Men desire the sharing of thoughts
on a sexual basis only.  Or at least that is their end game.  They dont care to suffer through the boorning chit. 
Yet as a woman, it's that boorning chit that leads up to the comfort of sharing the kink or brass ring they were after.  I

I often wonder if this isnt an area where we confuse Men or appear to misslead.
99% of Dominant Men understand our need of the spoken word so many let us `speak`so we can get to the
good stuff.  grin ..... but it's the interaction that creates the intimacy and we listen for that interaction. 
If it falls short somehow we many never get to the comfort level where the pay off lies. 

Honestly I believe intimacy takes time, effort and a huge ammount of trust on both ends. 








BossyShoeBitch -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 7:35:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

As is the case with a lot of my relationship, there are double standards.  I am encouraged to open up my heart and share with my Master.  He sometimes shares with me the things that He is going through.  I have found that He simply isn't very good at sharing His feelings with me.  Frankly, that hurts my feelings sometimes.  I know that O/our relationship is not a romance, and that He does not love me.  He often tells me He is proud of me but rarely anything beyond that.  Sometimes I see His feelings in His actions, and sometimes I don't.  I know He fosters in me a need for Him.  Sometimes I wish that I could see that the need for me, not just the need for me to finish tasks, was obvious.  (I know, I need to talk with Him about it.)


Not everyone wants or requires love. But I do. In my last relationship, that ended about a month ago, I was not loved and I found it ultimately frustrating. Now I have miraculously found someone that already wants to own me and can open his heart and share his feelings. Maybe some find it wrong for a sub to want to know shes adored by her Sir. However its what I need. The need to be needed and wanted and missed and for someone to be feeling like a teenager because they met me. I was willing to settle for less but I am glad I was released and therefore available for my hearts desire.

That's amazing LL!  I am really happy for you!



SimplyMichael -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 7:57:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

i see intimacy as being a shared vulnerability.  my Master can share His weaknesses with me because they are safe with me.  Part of my job as slave is to protect my Master and that means He trusts me not only with His Dominance but with His vulnerabilities as well. 

i think a lot of women tend to see a man's vulnerability as a negative, they may attack any sign of weakness.  Sharing the dark places of His mind is a vulnerable act.  By knowing that i will safeguard my Master's vulnerability, He is able to be truly intimate.


Exactly! 

However, communicating at that level, being truly open risks the relationship, and people who NEED to be in a relationship won't take that risk because preserving it becomes more important than meeting their own needs.  They lie to themselves and their partners.

People who value themselves deeply refuse to be in or stay in relationships that are not working.  My ex and I split because she wanted children and I did not.  We both cried, we both hurt but it was the right thing to do for both of us.  To this day I treat her like the sister I never had and we are dear friends.  I do so because she was honest and forthright with me.

You have to be willing to be by yourself, something few people enjoy, rather than hurling yourself into the next relationship, and wait for the right partner to come along.  Sometimes you have to be willing to cut someone loose who you otherwise love but has some issue that you can't live with.

For me, I will never again have a relationship where I cannot be vulnerable and where my partner not only accepts that vulnerability but welcomes and treasures it.  However, that sort of trust is delicate, and once broken is not easily repaired.  Like all real trust, it takes time and an accumulation of actions that shows consistency.  In addition, it means I have to be willing to hear things that are uncomfortable, sometimes even painful to have come from your partner.  But real truth isn't always warm and fuzzy, sometimes your breath smells, your contributions to the relationship are lacking, or some other unpleasant truth.  However, with a real intimate nurturing relationship, that painful truth is felt only once, things can be changed and fixed before they undermine the relationship and so every painful truth makes the relationship stronger and more fulfilling and in the long run is far less painful than secrets and unspoken expectations.



dawntreader -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 8:00:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

As a submissive, do you feel there is this kind of intimacy lacking in your relationship or do you feel pressured to foster this kind of intimacy?  Do you consider or desire your D/s relationship to be this kind of intimate relationship?


Compatibility and Dominance are the 2 traits i look for in a lover. In THAT order...so intimacy and the ability to be authentic come before dominance in my relationships, intimacy is there as the primary motivator.
 
Ofcourse, i am not seeking "the one" and this might seperate me a bit from this crowd. i have found several that compliment the various aspects of my life and while long-term is not the goal, intimacy and authenticity are a must~



Prinsexx -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 8:01:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


Perhaps I'm a bit jaded in my thinking, but I believe a lot of men prefer to avoid this kind of intimacy with a woman... or perhaps just avoid this kind of intimacy, all together.  I do believe that women, in general, are much more attuned to exploring and discussing their feelings and emotional ideas... [;)]

Generally, I think men and women just communicate differently reflecting an alternative perspective (and sometimes opposing) on priorities, interests, and ideas.


As a submissive, do you feel there is this kind of intimacy lacking in your relationship or do you feel pressured to foster this kind of intimacy?  Do you consider or desire your D/s relationship to be this kind of intimate relationship?

i think there are two sepaate issues here entirely.
The first issue raised is really voiced in terms of an either/or gender question. This is difficult for me to respond to because i have a sister who takes the 'male' role and considers herself to be the 'male' in her primary relationship. Her partner was born a man but lives in both a man's role and a transvestite role and is rejecting 'passing' and rejecting transgendering or changing his-her body physically.
My two closet friends are a gay male who likes and wears female attire and also thinks in the way that most would assume to be 'like-a-woman. He is a psychic medium, extremely empathic and exists on a very emotive level.
My other very good male friend is going through the transgendering process at the moment and is just at the stage of having testosterone blocking treatment and laser treatment to facial hair. He will describe at length and in detail the changes that are happening in his perception of the wrld around him in terms of the effects that hormone changes are having on his perception.
Socilaisation also plays a huge role as all three men feel they are expected to conform to a male stereotype not only in behaviour but in the ways in which they relate to this part of the world. IMPO men are socialised to be more agressive in the world and woman socialised to be more passive.
I am born in a woman's body, describe myself as a 'Barbie doll', have a slave mimdset and earn my living from those empathic qualities of thinking i have so i guess i am very lucky in having few anomalies of mind-body to have to contend with and a dissonant free perception of who i am and who i am supposed to be.
Now ro your point about intimacy: i find my Master completely attentive not only to my feelings but also to my opinions and indeed my work and 'power' in the world as the person i am.
There is no 'pressure' for me to disclose or not to disclose my thoughts when we are together with family and friends. These issues (like discussions about the difference between teens likes dislikes, personalities) are often done in retrospect anyway. i have no limits but i am allowed to express how i feel. If my noice becomes a certain nature then He stops. If my tears flow and are 'real' (i always reserve crying tears for situations of unbearable physical pain or emotional breakdown anyway) then those tears also stop the scene.
In the past i have 'settled' for less than this i suppose. But in the past i did not know i was settling for less than what was truly fulfilling for me.
Communication of an intimate nature is absolutely necessary in life in general and not just necessary during bdsm. Communication is also a two way process in its simplest form: one transmitter/speaker with one receiver/listener. All that exists without comunication are two or more people whose relationship is on the road of communication breakdown, mixed messaging and ultimate mismatch.
I'm on a path of putting not only a new Master/slave relationship together but two families . It is a serious road and so it is absolutely critical not to have hidden agendas, unspoken promises and hidden lies. (Anything which is hidden is i believe a passive lie).




Ellsa -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 8:19:32 AM)

Thank you, Michael, that was very nicely said.
ellsa



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 8:21:26 AM)

I dunno, it's always the females I hear talking about all their walls and how hard it is for them to trust.  Perhaps it's that males are more creative and better at just BEING non intimate, while women spill the beans.

For me it is a sense of knowing and comfort with my partner.  Just being happy spending an entire day inside doing nothing but watching movies we both love and sharing the paper exactly as we like it.  Holding entire conversations with our eyes.



Quivver -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 8:56:05 AM)

How true Michael, and well said ... thank you!  



kyraofMists -> RE: Intimacy... (7/19/2008 10:49:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
I believe there is difference between communicating with someone with genuine reciprocal interest and understanding, and simply being allowed to ramble on and be listened to.


I know for me, there is a huge difference.  A sounding board is nice at times, but I prefer the interaction of sharing ourselves.  With those that are closest to me, a sounding board is rarely what I want or need from them.

quote:

As a submissive, do you feel there is this kind of intimacy lacking in your relationship or do you feel pressured to foster this kind of intimacy?  Do you consider or desire your D/s relationship to be this kind of intimate relationship?


Maybe our relationship is a rare one or he is an uncommon man, because deep emotional and mental intimacy comes so easy for him in his relationship with Alandra and me.  Of the three of us, sharing himself in this way is the easiest for him.  He does not share this with others.  There are probably many people who have quite a few colorful descriptors to use to describe him, but they don't get to see what he chooses to give to his family. 

I don't think that I have ever felt pressured from him to give this kind of intimacy; I have had to push myself to give it, but he prefers that it be freely given.  I am the same way; I will not push for someone to open up to me; they will either be internally motivated to develope this kind of intimacy with me or they will not.  My most memorable interactions have been this way.

Knight's Kyra



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