RE: Marrage (Full Version)

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calice -> RE: Marrage (7/20/2008 9:39:31 AM)

Well said DA. As many others have said the OP is asking for advice on an activity that is ethically wrong if not illegal.  Social security is being paid by those of us who will probally never see it, so to ask us for advice on frauding the system is just amazing to me.




stella41b -> RE: Marrage (7/20/2008 10:32:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It's nothing to do with my disposable income, Stella. You seem to think that tax dollars are some sort of bottomless well. If I needed that money, none of what I received would be 'disposable.' Not even a very good attempt to strawman.

Perhaps you should also do a bit of research into when conversation becomes conspiracy.


Perhaps I should. But then again I posted my opinion. As for me thinking that tax dollars are some sort of bottomless well, that's actually quite rich when you consider your own government has sent troops to occupy another sovereign state on the basis of erm, er, another fraud but we won't go into that.

But let me correct you, particularly as I'm working to get people off welfare and into some sort of occupation and therefore back into society as taxpayers. I'm assuming that the principles there in the US are the same as they are here in the UK, that the less spent on welfare the better. Being on welfare is acceptable, life happens, but actively choosing to stay on welfare isn't, especially when you can work or find some other means of legally obtaining an income.

So go ahead, make all the assumptions you like. You have your opinion. I have mine. These opinions differ. Here on a message board or forum that isn't quite a bad thing. But also bear in mind that my opinion doesn't support or condone welfare benefit fraud, but merely gives someone the benefit of the doubt.




TheHeretic -> RE: Marrage (7/20/2008 11:07:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I'm assuming that the principles there in the US are the same as they are here in the UK....
...
So go ahead, make all the assumptions you like. You have your opinion. I have mine. These opinions differ.



         So I'm trying to puzzle this out, Stella...  Your assumptions are supposed to be given weight and authority in the discussion (despite a pretty poor history with your assumptions of how things work in my country), but my assumptions are mere opinions?  Is that how this works?

     




stella41b -> RE: Marrage (7/20/2008 1:36:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I'm assuming that the principles there in the US are the same as they are here in the UK....
...
So go ahead, make all the assumptions you like. You have your opinion. I have mine. These opinions differ.


So I'm trying to puzzle this out, Stella... Your assumptions are supposed to be given weight and authority in the discussion (despite a pretty poor history with your assumptions of how things work in my country), but my assumptions are mere opinions? Is that how this works?




Oh my God, please forgive me for trying to give my opinion on something based in the United States without actually knowing exactly what goes on there. I'm very sorry even to dare to think that my humble opinion could even come close to the opinion of an American citizen.

No Heretic, and please don't take me seriously here, for I can explain. You have your point of view which you have expressed, along with others here on this thread, based on moral outrage that someone could be defrauding the welfare benefits system for their own financial gain and stealing your money. I happen to have a different point of view, somewhat less popular, which I also expressed. The fact that I expressed my point of view which differs from your point of view doesn't make your point of view any less valid. But then again your point of view doesn't make mine any less valid.

I assume in coming to these boards that most people don't share my opinions or points of view. This is something I understand, accept and respect - it's called free speech and democracy.




uninterested5 -> RE: Marrage (7/20/2008 1:43:09 PM)

How can you be dominant when you suckle from the tit of your society? Tell your friend not to be such a vampiric bane on society.




Arpig -> RE: Marrage (7/20/2008 7:58:20 PM)

quote:

How can you be dominant when you suckle from the tit of your society?

What does one have to do with the other?




pahunkboy -> RE: Marrage (7/20/2008 8:16:00 PM)

It suddenly got boldly stuffy in here.

"your money"?     I think not.

The presumption is the the same person benifits from the system in many ways and has used it do enhance this.

So a not intellegent poster asks about the possibilties for a better sistuation and a group piles on about "your money".


yup until that poster came in- you had a pot of gold. and now it is all gone- all because of that OP who is looking for advice.

Your money.  Not really.  What about the OPs money which YOU consume??





stuffy in here for sure...




Samii -> RE: Marrage (7/20/2008 11:28:22 PM)

I only asked advice for I friend but thank you for all your thoughs. as for DomAviator I would like you to live in my shoes for 6 months and you will think diffrent about the free cheese. I was born disabled its NOT my falt I cant work. 50.00 a week for food well thats WHY we get fat because we have to eat mac n cheese, roman noodles cheap food that not good for us, My eletric bill is 150.00 a mon wanna know why because I live on oxygen my machine/schooter take alot of eletric THATS not my falt, so befor you go putting US down live in our shoes one day. YOUR NOT MAN ENOUGH!!




Vendaval -> RE: Marrage (7/20/2008 11:59:25 PM)

Hello Samii,
 
I think that your friends should consult with a legal aid attorney before taking this step.  I have heard similar questions from elderly and disabled persons who would like to be married but cannot survive if their benefits are reduced.  (Not sure how much the laws on SSD/SSI differ from state to state.)




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 7:22:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval
(Not sure how much the laws on SSD/SSI differ from state to state.)


They don't.  SSD/SSI are determined by Federal guidelines.  The amount allocated to those whose cases are approved are determined using a set formula which plugs in the numbers for their specific state/location.  But that is done After approval.  The approval process, the formula for determining amount recieved, etc - those are all federal.
 
Some states have assistance programs (such as a "D" check) that are state provided supliments to SSD/SSI - but those state supliments, where they are available, are determined by (a) whether a person is qualified - they have to already be recieving SSI/SSD in order to do so and (b) how many qualified people apply, and (c) set formulas within the individual states, based on things such as the amount of SSI/SSD recieved, other income sources, number in household, and other assistance programs that the individual is already recieving.




pahunkboy -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 7:50:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Samii

I only asked advice for I friend but thank you for all your thoughs. as for DomAviator I would like you to live in my shoes for 6 months and you will think diffrent about the free cheese. I was born disabled its NOT my falt I cant work. 50.00 a week for food well thats WHY we get fat because we have to eat mac n cheese, roman noodles cheap food that not good for us, My eletric bill is 150.00 a mon wanna know why because I live on oxygen my machine/schooter take alot of eletric THATS not my falt, so befor you go putting US down live in our shoes one day. YOUR NOT MAN ENOUGH!!


Hun, I understand.  The comment was not warranted.  Some people would not last a week with a true disabiltiy and pain levels.  This type of person thinks they know but they dont. They might know temporary limitations/pain, but that is nothing like LIVING it 24-7.

This type of person also assumes it can never happen to them.  Well it can and does.

I know the system.  There are a few that abuse it true- but a higher % live in such agony that .....
Anyhow- try to let it blow over.  






OrionTheWolf -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 11:11:22 AM)

Let me get this straight. You want to be married, but not have it legally recognized because to do so would reduce the money you get for doing what? You want everything that marriage entails, without the drawback you face? So basically you want to avoid a consequence of your actions by committing fraud?

I saw a post that said this had nothing to do with ethics and such, and just legalities. I suggest that person, and you, study some ethics. You wish to practice deceit for a financial gain. I suppose it comes down to how much does it mean to you to get married. Sacrifice money or sacrifice ethics, but something must be paid for something to be gained.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Samii

I have a question that My bestfriend asked Me and I want to get others input.

My friend desided to marrie her subbie and if one/both are on SSI/SSD and they get married there funds go down, So she was thinking about having a wedding that wasnt legal (with out marrage licance) just getting married under gods eyes not the state, then maybe doing a legal name change what do u think




pahunkboy -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 11:35:54 AM)

she wants a ceremony and celebration.

that can be done- w/o getting a license and having it "official"

the thing is..if the OP is on programs- one has to report how many are in the household.  So suppose I move you in with me, but we dont get married; then any program that I am on, [or you] it has to be reported that it is a household of 2.

social security does have a website. i was searching there cos I am sure there is a rule that over 45 hours of volunteer work a month- that one would have to surrender the check for that month.

SSDI/SSI is a small amount of money.  DAs version of budgeting doesnt work.  It is hard to run a household on SSI/SSDI.

as to fraud- they have people checking for that.   when they are caught they face paying it back- a fine, possibly being banned for life on that program.  and in extreem cases jail.






pahunkboy -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 11:38:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Let me get this straight. You want to be married, but not have it legally recognized because to do so would reduce the money you get for doing what? You want everything that marriage entails, without the drawback you face? So basically you want to avoid a consequence of your actions by committing fraud?

I saw a post that said this had nothing to do with ethics and such, and just legalities. I suggest that person, and you, study some ethics. You wish to practice deceit for a financial gain. I suppose it comes down to how much does it mean to you to get married. Sacrifice money or sacrifice ethics, but something must be paid for something to be gained.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Samii

I have a question that My bestfriend asked Me and I want to get others input.

My friend desided to marrie her subbie and if one/both are on SSI/SSD and they get married there funds go down, So she was thinking about having a wedding that wasnt legal (with out marrage licance) just getting married under gods eyes not the state, then maybe doing a legal name change what do u think



she wants the marriage to be in the eyes of god, but not the state.   other then a name change she wasnt asking for all the benefits.

I would not do the name change.  




YourhandMyAss -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 11:48:52 AM)

DA I don't know where you live but a basic one room dump here in Sacramento is 800 dollars in some places, in other places, it's about 600 to 700. 800 dollars just for a one room dump,  that, for me is more than I make. I couldn't afford most apartments around here on my income, and they're not nice ritzy ones, they're basic bottom of the line dumps. And the trailer park Daddy lived in before moving in with me was 500 dollars, not 300. Basic food is not 50 dollars a month In Sacramento, try 85 to 100 dollars. And that's for about 15 items. I'm not talking about ritzy food stuff or expensive food stuff I'm talking about yougurt and fruit and cereal and mac and cheese type stuff. You know the very bare bone basics. For my dad to feed a family of four it cost him about 400 dollars, and if you pared it down to the bare  bone basics it'd still be bout  200 dollars every grocery shopping month.



quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

As for it "not being enough to pay rent" sure it is... Just not at Brittany Bay or Clear Lake Shores... Ill be happy to budget his $600....

Rent on a trailer in a park on the wrong side of the tracks - $300
Electric / Water / Prepaid Cell Phone - $100
Food $50 per week. = $200
Monthly Total - $600 - note there is nothing left over for cigarettes, strip clubs, lotto tickets or bottles of Mad Dog 20-20.




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 11:52:25 AM)

Yeah, hunkboy,  it's Hard - but it's NOT impossible.  I should know, since I managed it for nearly 17 years while raising my daughter.
 
Things have to be sacrificed, and you sure as fuck don't live in the lap of luxury, but it IS possible.  And gee - imagine that - it's possible WITHOUT compromising ethics or resorting to Fraud.
 
Samii - they're going to have to Legally report the change in Living Arrangements whether they get married or Not.  That is a simple fact of being on SSI.  Failure to do so constitutes Fraud, whether they have gotten legally married and moved in together, or Just moved in together without the benefits of legal marriage.  Reporting the change - whether through marriage or simply because they're co-habitating  - is likely going to mean changes to their Individual benefits.  That is simply a fact of life on SSI and SSD.  So whether they like it or not, there are only 2 options open to them if they absolutely do Not want anything to change Financially : (a) do not live together in the same house or (b) commit Fraud to avoid any potential changes.  If they choose not to live together - in order to avoid potentially losing out financially - then they probably weren't really all that interested in co-habiting to begin with.  If they choose to commit Fraud in order to avoid potentially losing out financially - they aren't worth the space they take up on an overcrowded mudball, and deserve nothing but contempt.  Their third choice is to do things the legal (and, Oh Yeah, Ethical) way - reporting whatever changes they ultimately choose to make, and making adjustments in their lives based on whatever Financial changes happen because of it.




Samii -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 11:52:54 AM)

its NOT me who wants to do this its a friend!! its not like I said should they do it to get MORE money.. when I married My exhubby instead of getting 1000 a month We got 700 togeather and it was hard to live with,




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 12:23:26 PM)

~FR~

Gues I am a cold bastard because I am not moved by those with disabilities or low income. I do not believe in wealth redistribution, so if they cannot make enough money to do what they want, then they are not meant to. Seems people can easily pay for internet access, cell phones, and other non-necessities, but always complain they are not given enough.

Whoever it is doing it, whether a "friend" or not, it is pretty unethical to live together, change names, and appear in all aspects as if married, but not let the government know. That is pretty much stealing, and it is stealing from every person that pays taxes. If people do not like the laws as they are, then change them. If stealing is no big deal to whoever this is, then do as you please, but do not look to society to accept it.




Lynnxz -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 12:50:55 PM)

I do *not* have any sympathy for people who leech off of the system- and continue to pop out little fucking kids at evry opprotunity. I do have sympathy for those who, through no fault of their own, are not able to work.

People who were born with money, and have had no substantial money issues in their life are quick to cry about Social Security recipients, and those with disabilities. DA, you are out of your mind if you think 600 is enough to live on. Jesus, I was injured in a 50 foot fall 4 years back, and they were kind enough to offer me 200$ disablity a month. I was so pissed, I turned it down- wtf am  I supposed to do with 200 a month?  I can't walk, leave me alone!  It's also a raging pain in the ass to get any kind of govt assistance. A friend and I went though a four month battle to help him get his bipolar meds through the state, something he could never afford otherwise. Sooo much paperwork, sooo much wasted time spent on hold, and the govt workers were always assholes to him, assuming he was just going for freebees... trust me, that boy needed those pills.

If they want to live together, and not legally get married, go ahead and do it. You will have to fill out some kind of paperwork thing, but perhaps it won't be as good as the married situation. Thousands of people do it... I don't see why you shouldn't be able to.




bookworm966 -> RE: Marrage (7/21/2008 1:02:37 PM)

Having read the entire collection of posts, I have to add my 2 cents' worth (coming from my OWN pocket).  I have been on both sides of this fence.  I worked my early adult life at menial, low paying jobs, and realized I wasnt making squat to survive and support my children.  I quit work, started school, applied for public assistance as a single mother and drew food stamps and a childcare benefit for 3 years.  No monthly check because I had financial aid for school (grants and loans paid back through service), and a 16 hour a week job as a nursing assistant.  We lived on about $1200 every three months from which tuition and books had to be paid and the balance given as a check.  Mom, I want a happy meal....sorry kiddo, it'll have to wait until I get out of school.... I kept the lights on and the car running, and we bought clothes secondhand from the thrift store and yard sales.  No satellite TV, no internet, no frivolous expenditures.  The food stamps were a lifesaver and I squirrelled them away to the point that when I finally was ineligible, we ate for 3 or 4 months on what was left.  I graduated with an Associate's Degree, passed my nursing boards (yay me) and IMMEDIATELY began repaying the system for the assistance.  I give Uncle Sam approximately 1/3 of my paycheck now for various deductions.  Am I guilty for the help?  No.  Did I try to get more than the system said I was eligible for?  No.  At the same time, my ex was attempting to get disability.  Not because he was born with some defect that makes him unable to work but because he is a sorry piece of shit that is too lazy to work and thinks everyone owes him his existence.  He finally succeeded.  So I apply for my son's portion of his father's check in lieu of child support.  My son gets $62 bucks a month SSI, because his dad hasnt worked enough to have paid into the system.  (And dont get me started on why I married that ass in the first place)  His dad lives from friend to friend, still abuses every drug he can get his hands on, works under the table when he wants to, and I have reported him time and time again for fraud.  Nothing ever happens.  In the meantime, the $62 bucks my son gets is basically coming from my own pocket, since I am the contributor to the system.  There are far too many people who view SSI/SSD as a way to get by for free.  I know people where I live that are going into the 3rd generation of sucking the public tit and no one has EVER had a goddamn job.  We need nationwide review of benefits.  I see little old people every night at work unable to afford their meds because they own a little falling down house on a 1/2 acre of land and therefore are not eligible for any assistance over what they paid in, and having worked their entire lives for next to nothing, that aint much.  At the same time, I am treating the baby of the hootchie who has 4 more kids and has better clothes and shoes than I can afford, manicured fingers AND toes, gold dripping off her scabbed up neck,  and wants to know 'can we write a prescription for the tylenol cause Medicaid will pay for it that way and I wont have to fork over 3 bucks myself'.  Forget about the check, what about the benefits no one mentions...Medicaid (so its free medical care), reduced income housing (Section VII and other programs), free school lunches, and other get to the front of the line faster assistance?  Add it all up, and THEY live better than the rest of us working our asses off to foot the bills.  Sorry people, this is a hot button for me....  I didnt mean to run on like that. 




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