RE: So, you are a "slave" (Full Version)

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CreativeDominant -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 7:14:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

More and more, I think it really is just about the blow jobs-and never having to hear....

"Not tonight dear-I have a headache."


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisgirl2playwith

... all He was interested in was what i could do to make Him feel good and just say "yes Master" without doing anything to help me understand what submission is really all about. He wasn't really interested in me as a person.  It didn't take me too long to realize that while He may be Dominant, a Master He was not.


lol... Well, duh.  But that has nothing to do with D/s or being either a dominant or master... that's just men in general. 

There's a reason a lot of people find this humorous...

A WOMAN'S POEM
Before I lay me down to sleep,
I pray for a man, who's not a creep,
One who's handsome, smart and strong.
One who loves to listen long,
One who thinks before he speaks,
One who'll call, not wait for weeks.
I pray he's gainfully employed,
When I spend his cash, won't be annoyed.
Pulls out my chair and opens my door.
Massages my back and begs to do more.
Oh! Send me a man who'll make love to my mind,
Knows what to answer to 'how big is my behind?'
I pray that this man will love me to no end,
And always be my very best friend. 


Of course, the caveat here would be that there are an awful lot of women who want Galahad but don't expect to have to be Guinevere.  [;)]
 
quote:

A MAN'S POEM
I pray for a deaf-mute gymnast nymphomaniac with
Huge boobs who owns
a bar on a golf course,
And loves to send me fishing and drinking. This
Doesn't rhyme and I don't give a shit.
The End


And on the flip side, this equates to there being an awful lot of men who expect to get Barbie without bringing Ken to the table.  [&:]
quote:

People recognize the truth in it.  [;)]



I certainly do.



CruelDesires -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 7:15:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: poisonedprogress
So anyone who gives up (or wishes to give up) those rights, but maintains certain limits as a condition of giving up those rights, is wrong to call themselves a slave? I don't think so. You might. I don't see how anybody is wrong either way.


You can call your girl whatever you want. That is your right. You can call her a "Tunafish sandwich on rye bread" even. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you.

C-D



Mercnbeth -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 8:00:38 AM)

quote:

A WOMAN'S POEM
Before I lay me down to sleep,
I pray for a man, who's not a creep,
One who's handsome, smart and strong.
One who loves to listen long,
One who thinks before he speaks,
One who'll call, not wait for weeks.
I pray he's gainfully employed,
When I spend his cash, won't be annoyed.
Pulls out my chair and opens my door.
Massages my back and begs to do more.
Oh! Send me a man who'll make love to my mind,
Knows what to answer to 'how big is my behind?'
I pray that this man will love me to no end,
And always be my very best friend. 

 
 
this slave had to make a few alterations in the above poem offered by TreasureKY in order to appreciate the "truth" in it, for her.
 
 
A SUBMISSIVE'S POEM
Before I lay me down to sleep,
I pray for a Dominant, who's not a creep,
One who's confident, capable and strong.
Who doesn’t take anyone’s crap for long,
One who says what HE means when He speaks,
If He says He’ll call, He does...even if He waits for weeks.
I pray he's gainfully employed,
But if he spends my cash, I won't be annoyed.
If it is important to Him, He will pull out my chair and open my door,
But I’d do it for Him, if that’s what He has me around for.
Please send me a man who NEVER begs nor pleads
To use His submissive for whatever He needs.
Oh! Send me a man who'll make love on HIS terms,
Not expect me to limit Him or make my orgasm His concern.
One who answers stupid questions like 'how big is my behind’
With a smirk and a comment like, ‘WOW, a LOT bigger than mine!!!’
I pray that this man will use me to no end,
And if so blessed, I will cherish Him, like a very best friend. 



poisonedprogress -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 8:44:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

You can call your girl whatever you want. That is your right. You can call her a "Tunafish sandwich on rye bread" even.

Just don't expect everyone to agree with you.


And what of people who describe themselves as I described?

I don't care if they disagree with me, as it is a matter of opinion. What I do care about is when they pretend their opinions are anything more than opinions.



Hisgirl2playwith -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 8:56:42 AM)

If a person has to prove they've earned the term Master or slave, why is not also expected of a submissive or Dominant to also prove what they are? Why is it that slaves and Masters are picked on so much more than subs and Dominants? i bet that if the ones holding a magnifying glass over us slaves and the Masters that own us would turn it on themselves, they would not like what they see.

If you are  Master of your craft, do you somehow suddenly lose your Mastery if you are not actively using your skills? If someone comes along from a different craft to talk to you, are you suddenly somehow not a Master anymore because that person is not of "your" craft? i am a slave. More specifically i am my Master's slave. i will continue being a slave regardless of whether or not He is the One that owns me. Now, does that mean if i am released that i will go around giving up full and total control to the first Master that demands it? Definately not, that would be insane. However, i have the willingness and the desire to do so with a Master i am compatible with. Ok i can already hear the arguments that a willingness or desire to be or do something doesn't make it happen. i actually agree with that to some extent. However, if you TRULY believe and have full confidence in who and what you are, regardless of whether it's slave/Master or sub/Dom then you will shine like a beacon in the night for those that know and recognize what to look for without anything ever being said. It will be known by your actions, the way you present yourself. That does NOT mean i'm going to always walk around with my eyes lowered rushing to please everyone in any way i can. However, any Master that truly understands and knows what to look for will know. There will always be unspoken hints and clues as to what is in your heart. i have heard several slave say that they would not allow this or that to happen to them. Well, i'm sorry to burst your bubble but that is NOT a good slave mentality. You may prefer not to do something, or have something done to you, but you do not have the right to refuse your Master anything. Now, something tells me i should bring up safety and common sense here, but i'm not going to say much because it should be.......well..........common sense. There are VERY FEW exceptions to the not being allowed to say no thing. Being too afraid is NOT one of them. A really good Master will take everything into consideration and be able to guide you accordingly. It is your responsibility as your Master's slave to let Him know in an appropriate way if a specific task or activity will be difficult for you, but if you can't trust your Master enough to allow Him to guide you through it anyway without hurting or unbalancing you in any way shape or form, then i would strongly suggest you should think about why you are with Him. i'm not even going to try and explain how safe i feel with my Master regardless of the fact that i know He can do anything to me that He wants to. i am fully confident in knowing that i am His most prized possession, i am of great value to Him, and therefore i am fully confident in knowing He won't "break" me.

Now, with all that said, that level of trust is very difficult to achieve, and doesn't happen overnight. It would be crazy to put so much blind trust in someone the first day you meet them, it is the willingness to achieve that level that's important. Questioning whether or not you can is perfectly understandable, and you should seriously be questioning that if you wish to be a good slave. If you come to the conclusion that you can't, that's perfectly understandable and acceptable as well, but if that's the case, please be honest enough with yourself and everyone else around you to admit it. There is NO shame or condemnation in not being cut out for a certain role. Just relax and be who you are. i have a far greater respect for people that are completely confident being who they are, than the ones that are just full of wishful thinking and are trying to bluff their way through.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 9:23:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisgirl2playwith

If a person has to prove they've earned the term Master or slave, why is not also expected of a submissive or Dominant to also prove what they are? Why is it that slaves and Masters are picked on so much more than subs and Dominants? i bet that if the ones holding a magnifying glass over us slaves and the Masters that own us would turn it on themselves, they would not like what they see.


I think that submissive individuals and dominant individuals -do- prove the essence of who they are, with every interaction and throughout their existence. For me, this is the difference between the submissive or dominant individual (who express their submission and dominance in a hundred little ways that can be observed and recognized by both that person and those around them, every single day), and the (in our vernacular) servant and domina... while the capacity to be a submissive or dominant individual is inherent in the personality of an individual, and is represented by behaviors, the state of servitude (being a servant) and dominion (being a domina) requires that one actively -serve- the needs of another individual or individuals (servant) or direct/hold dominion over another individual or individuals (domina).

I believe that this is where there is so much confusion, in that the natural inter-relationship oriented states of submission and domination have become titles. Outside of the BDSM world, submissive is not a noun -- it is an adjective. It describes something... in this case, a person who exhibits submissive behavior... hence, a submissive individual. Likewise, outside of the BDSM and scientific world, 'dominant' is not a noun -- again, it is an adjective -- a descriptive of a general trend in behavior for a given thing (in this case, again, a person). Using these words as nouns has muddied the verbal waters, leaving phrases like this plaguing message boards and mailing lists:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisgirl2playwith
Why is it that slaves and Masters are picked on so much more than subs and Dominants?


Because we all get to pick what we call the people we are in relationship with, and we get to choose to use adjectives as nouns, and titles as adjectives, it becomes impossible to have any kind of real discussion about the language of BDSM without someone getting their tonsils tied in a knot over some perceived slight to -their- particular preference.

For myself. I am a dominant person by nature. I bear the role of Domina when our household is happily full of submissive individuals striving to make their way in the role of servant in our homes, or enjoying themselves heartily as human pincushions and artistic canvases when we top/bottom for scenes. When I am not among my family, I am still dominant (ok, some call it pushy, aggressive, demanding, picky....) I am not, however, still a Domina -- that role is something that recognizes my leadership -only- within the confines of my home, or among others who share the idiosyncracies of the way we live and who -choose- to recognize me in that role. I expect a measure of courtesy from the people I meet, but it has nothing to do with my household role as Domina... it is because I am a person who carries herself with dignity, acts with integrity and is still decisive. It is because I choose to use wisdom as a tool for making decisions, rather than allowing my desires to have their way with me, willy-nilly. It is because I am a human being, and as such, I expect to be treated better than an animal. It is the same that I would do for anyone else, regardless of whether they are a submissive individual or a dominant individual, until such time as that person places hirself under my dominion -- at that point, the general courtesy will be replaced with the behavior suitable to the particular relationship that I have with that one servant who belongs to our household and wears the HBW collar.

Calla Firestorm



Leatherist -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 9:43:25 AM)

I guess my main beef goes like this.

Let's say a guy claims to be a roofer. But he has never so much as touched a shingle.

But he posts he's a roofer anyhow. Someone goes through the profiles looking for someone to work on thier roof. The fake gets his back up, and begins to pull some crap about how "Oh, a roofer really means "this" (insert bullshit excuse)

We would not put up with the lack of experience in contracting-that claims otherwise-why should we do the same HERE?



Hisgirl2playwith -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 9:46:49 AM)

Thank You for detailing that a little more for me. i do understand a little more, i think.....i'm trying anyway. It certainly does get confusing with so many different interpretations flying around and everyone thinking they're right. Including me[:D]lol. However, i am always open to being shown a better way of looking at things. In fact, i love having my thoughts and ideas challenged in a friendly, intellectual and mature way.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 10:27:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I guess my main beef goes like this.

Let's say a guy claims to be a roofer. But he has never so much as touched a shingle.

But he posts he's a roofer anyhow. Someone goes through the profiles looking for someone to work on thier roof. The fake gets his back up, and begins to pull some crap about how "Oh, a roofer really means "this" (insert bullshit excuse)

We would not put up with the lack of experience in contracting-that claims otherwise-why should we do the same HERE?


I understand your frustration, Leather.. and in many ways, I share it. It makes seeking someone to share ones eccentricities with a real challenge -- waist-deep in bullsh*t and rising... However, the fact that, for the 20 years I've been providing pastoral care in the community, and the 10+ years I've been actively involved in doing this crazy thing, this topic has come up over and over with no possible resolution probably means that resolution is going to have to come from the same place that the title-mongering comes. Each of us is going to have to take the time and energy to interview the individuals we're bringing in close -- taking into account all that they've said, all they believe about themselves and their world, all of their experiences (or lack thereof), and anything we find out about them beyond that, and then decide whether this is a person we want in our lives under the terms that they declare themselves.

I know that a lot of the submissive individuals that we've run through the provisional period in our household strongly resented losing their "title" when they came to us. Some didn't like being one of several 'servants' instead of standing out as a "slave" among submissives or vice versa. Many didn't like seeing someone whose servitude crossed their boundaries wearing the same title as they did-- it brought about fear that their boundaries wouldn't be respected. Only time corrected these perceptions (or didn't). In the end, all of this is a head-game, and it is up to us to take the responsibility for ending up in the situation (including name-games) that suits us. It may not be "fair" to the people who have taken the time to learn and grow in their development and who -do- have amazing things to bring to the table... but isn't it a shame for the people who only look at the title, and don't stop to explore to find out what hidden gifts might be there beneath the surface of the person who chooses to use a different categorization.

For my part, I've found the common designation of "servant" very freeing for me as a leader in our household. It opens up the possibility of using a person's individual capacity to determine the shape of their servitude, rather than feeling bound or compelled by either the historical or revisionist definitions of certain words and the restrictions of perception bounded by those terms.

Calla Firestorm



LaTigresse -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 10:41:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I guess my main beef goes like this.

Let's say a guy claims to be a roofer. But he has never so much as touched a shingle.

But he posts he's a roofer anyhow. Someone goes through the profiles looking for someone to work on thier roof. The fake gets his back up, and begins to pull some crap about how "Oh, a roofer really means "this" (insert bullshit excuse)

We would not put up with the lack of experience in contracting-that claims otherwise-why should we do the same HERE?


Leatherist, I completely understand where you are coming from and in many aspects of BDSM, M/s, D/s......it makes perfect sense.

However for me, and my life.........a person saying they are dominant, submissive, whatever........is more of a personality trait rather than a skill. I don't personally subscribe to the mindset of calling myself a master/mistress or professional anything... because for me it is more about a personality type. I just cannot get with the whole MistressofHell or whatever..thing.

Also, for me, this is about a dynamic, a relationship style. In that context I don't really know if I want someone with alot of experience. At least not experience serving/submitting to many different people. In that case I would have to wonder why so many, and what was the problem.

For me, the specific skills of a slave/submissive, in the context that matters, are going to have to be learned to be "me" oriented anyway. I don't require a professional slave, chef, landscaper or anything of that sort. Just a strong desire to please me in a manner I am more than willing to communicate.



CruelDesires -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 10:45:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: poisonedprogress

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

You can call your girl whatever you want. That is your right. You can call her a "Tunafish sandwich on rye bread" even.

Just don't expect everyone to agree with you.


And what of people who describe themselves as I described?

I don't care if they disagree with me, as it is a matter of opinion. What I do care about is when they pretend their opinions are anything more than opinions.


Dude. You like arguing in circles. You care that they think their opinions are valid, then you don't care if they disagree with you. Okay. I'm done playing.

I think I've wasted enough time on childish games. Moving right along.

C-D



Mercnbeth -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 10:50:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I guess my main beef goes like this.

Let's say a guy claims to be a roofer. But he has never so much as touched a shingle.

But he posts he's a roofer anyhow. Someone goes through the profiles looking for someone to work on their roof. The fake gets his back up, and begins to pull some crap about how "Oh, a roofer really means "this" (insert bullshit excuse)

We would not put up with the lack of experience in contracting-that claims otherwise-why should we do the same HERE?


I don't know about that reference Leatherist. Around here anyone willing to go up on a roof can call themselves a roofer. Buyer beware!

I'll give you my experience regarding this semantic argument. I've never met a self identified 'slave' who wasn't one. However, they just didn't realize who, or what, on whose behalf they 'slaved'.

It starts with the question; who do you serve as a 'slave'. If they answer noone...yet; I proceed to; do you work? do you have kids? Do you feed and clothe yourself? Most of these 'slaves' actually do slave for someone, even if it is themselves. By strict definition it is an accurate representation. It is in the semantics that we've gone to 14 pages thus far of fascinating discourse.

Me - I'm enjoying life with my aforementioned "Tuna-fish sandwich on rye bread". she may not answer or come when someone else refers to her as they see fit; but she sure cums by whatever name I chose as her referencing label.



LaTigresse -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 11:07:22 AM)

I always saw beth more as a .......angel fish on a nice multigrain bread.......myself.[:D]



Hisgirl2playwith -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 11:22:22 AM)

Ok i'm being either really brave or totally crazy because i'm pretty sure what i'm going to say will open me up for judgement.

There's been a couple of references made about how much a slave or sub really is what they say depending on experience. What qualifies as experience here? i have referred to myself as a slave, and i really believe that is what i am, but i have only had 2 r/t meetings, both with the same former Master, and both very mild experiences.This is certainly not by choice however. i would love nothing more than to physically BE with my Master 24/7, but there are things preventing that which i have no control over right now. i realize that in person experience is much more intense, and most certainly is a good test of a girl's willingness to live up to the term slave, but does that mean i'm somehow less of a slave, or not really a slave at all, just because i can't get the r/t experience i want? my submission to Him isn't in any way less sincere than if i was actually with Him. In one way submitting to a long distance Master is more challenging because it takes a lot more self discipline to follow through on things, especially when i don't particularly feel like doing something at a given time, and be totally honest about what goes on here, when He can't be here to observe it Himself. On the other hand, r/t can be much more challenging when it comes to actually accepting what is done to you without question. i may not have been able to fully experience my full potential as my Master's slave, but i don't believe that that somehow makes me less of a slave. i'm just not as experienced yet.



dawntreader -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 11:27:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I always saw beth more as a .......angel fish on a nice multigrain bread.......myself.[:D]
Same here [;)]



Leatherist -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 11:58:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisgirl2playwith

Ok i'm being either really brave or totally crazy because i'm pretty sure what i'm going to say will open me up for judgement.

There's been a couple of references made about how much a slave or sub really is what they say depending on experience. What qualifies as experience here? i have referred to myself as a slave, and i really believe that is what i am, but i have only had 2 r/t meetings, both with the same former Master, and both very mild experiences.This is certainly not by choice however. i would love nothing more than to physically BE with my Master 24/7, but there are things preventing that which i have no control over right now. i realize that in person experience is much more intense, and most certainly is a good test of a girl's willingness to live up to the term slave, but does that mean i'm somehow less of a slave, or not really a slave at all, just because i can't get the r/t experience i want? my submission to Him isn't in any way less sincere than if i was actually with Him. In one way submitting to a long distance Master is more challenging because it takes a lot more self discipline to follow through on things, especially when i don't particularly feel like doing something at a given time, and be totally honest about what goes on here, when He can't be here to observe it Himself. On the other hand, r/t can be much more challenging when it comes to actually accepting what is done to you without question. i may not have been able to fully experience my full potential as my Master's slave, but i don't believe that that somehow makes me less of a slave. i'm just not as experienced yet.


I see it as a measure of service.

For instance, if  a girl was comitted to me,and we were working towards being together-and she specifically did tasks I assigned her for me benefit-would she not be serving me?

Whereas,if all she did was blather on romantically-and spent her time jerking my chain and leading me on,KNOWING we would never meet-she would be a time waster.



thetammyjo -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 2:22:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: poisonedprogress

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
You can have a dominant or submissive personality.. it does not have to be in relationship to anyone. Both can be good or bad based on how that personality helps or hinders you with interactions in the world with other people.

But I would never claim I am "Mistress" of anyone or anything I haven't earned that title with. To me, and me alone, claiming such titles is arrogant and unrealistic.

If you or anyone else wishes to claim a title, unless you can demonstrate to me that you have earned that, don't expect me to use it anymore than I expect you to call me "Professor" or "Doctor" or anything else which frankly has nothing to do with our relationship until you sign up for my classes and thus entered into that relationship where those titles are appropriate.


Such titles are officially sanctioned or licensed. As far as I know there is no such official sanctioning/licensing of slaves and masters. Is there?


There are in some leather and kink communities but those folks do not assume that their earned titles exist or need be respected outside of the communities where they earned.

I earned by title of "mistress" from my slave that I own.. not from anyone else currently.



willow66 -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 2:22:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist


quote:

Whereas,if all she did was blather on romantically-and spent her time jerking my chain and leading me on,KNOWING we would never meet-she would be a time waster.


In which case why would you waste your time with her?

I identify as submissive but in my current relationship he and I both consider me to be his slave. Of course I guess that depends on each individuals interpretation of what a slave is. I work outside of the home so for some that would keep me from ever being a slave. But if he called and told me to drop everything I was doing and get my ass to him I would do it. I do what I'm told. Lots of variables and arguments that can be made all day for everything I think makes me a slave to him. Really though in the end it doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks but him.

As for potential slaves you are considering for a relationship it kind of seems to me that you are a good judge of who is not for you. Some people don't even have that so go with it!



Leatherist -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 2:24:31 PM)

I don't, I base service on performance, not abstracts of emotion.



Prinsexx -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (8/1/2008 3:05:38 PM)

i couldn't resist:

A Slave’s Poem  

Before He lays me down to keep
I pray for a Master, when I weep,
One who's learned, true and strong.
One who differs right from wrong,One who instructs me as He speaks,
One for Whom I’m all He seeks,.
I pray He's blissfully explored,
The pains I’ve felt. When He’s annoyedHe pulls my hair, directs me to the floor.
Whips my back and then does more.
Send me a Master who'll make love to my mind,
Knows how to take me from behind.
I pray this Master will love ‘til the end,
Of Always, my Lover, my Saviour, my Friend.



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