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Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 7/28/2008 4:55:38 AM

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http://www.newsnet5.com/family/17008556/detail.html

I see both sides of this story - as the person in question hasn't had the gender reassignment surgery - and that can be confusing to young children in either locker room.
I'm curious why the city won't provide the 'gender neutral locker rooms or solo family changing area. The kind where Dad's can take daughters to change - and change themselves....like our local pool has...

I hope they can find a medium ground.

jani

RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 7/28/2008 6:28:48 PM

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Very sad story, but I can peg down the gender neutral bathroom issue. It costs a lot of money. Remember firstly that it is almost always cheaper to replace rather than remodel when talking about large public structure. Gender Neutral family rooms are not economical as they cannot handle the flow of people who seek to use them, take up much more floor space than regular facilities, and add an additional burden to the cleaning staff.

Seriously the store I work at has a family restroom plus 4 other changing table equipped bathrooms. There is almost always a line for the "family" restroom even though the parent could use 2 other location do to the buiseness, all it does it create a huge traffic jam for everyone in the store.

The only real gender neutral solution is only having 1 co-ed locker room for everyone. It happens a few places in the US and frequently in other countries. The only lasting solution is for the more liberal people to out breed the stuckups.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/3/2008 6:23:54 AM

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That's a really tough one. She doesn't feel comfortable in the men's locker room, and you can't blame her for that. But at least some people in the women's locker room are sure to go ballistic if she uses that one. I don't see a good solution for this. A locker room with individual shower and changing stalls could help, but the city clearly doesn't want the expense of adding another locker room. Maybe they need to add a co-ed family room anyway. Fathers with young daughters and mothers with young sons could use it as well.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/6/2008 3:30:03 PM

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I two can see both sides of this issue, both the bureaucratic headache and the gender discrimination. There have been some good ideas suggested for a possible solution, but I have one that no one seems to have considered. The aquatic facility in question is part of a recreation center. One possibility lies in the transexual woman using a bathroom elsewhere in the complex, walking to the change room, and then locking up her belongings. It would be a bit of an annoyance ofr her, but it could work out.

I don't know for a fact that there are other bathrooms, but it seems logical. My local recreation center even has half size lockers in some of the bathrroms besides the pool one. You just have to bring your own padlock. Does this seem reasonable or am I imagining things?

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/6/2008 9:39:23 PM

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For me all sort of dressroom segregation is pretty much discrimination. i agree that there should be dressing room facilities for people who for some reason feel uncomfortable in using the public ones (i.e. breast cancer patients come to mind), but no one should be made to use such facilities. When the law on gender reassignment was passed here in Finland, they decided that persons right to be physically untouched is greater than peoples right for normative comfort. So, the law was written so that it does not force anyone to mutilate their bodies in order to correct their gender status. That creates a situation where people can have anatomically differing bodies in here and still have protection from gender discrimination.

heidi

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/7/2008 8:50:57 AM

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I just realized how pools must seem to those who face gender issues.

In 90% of the pools, you enter the main lobby of the pool- pay your entry and then go one direction for the women's room and another to the men's (with the women's on the right most of the time) and end out at the pool. They do this so that people can't walk straight to the pool without changing and showering, which cuts down how frequently the pool has to be cleaned.

But when you have a gender issue, it really must strike as strange to have to make that choice.

Thanks for the post!

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/7/2008 10:57:05 PM

Subcupcakpr1nc3ss

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Yea thats a really sad story. They should have family changing rooms I know Columbus Ohio Easton Mall has one. Plus company's such as Mattel have neutral bathrooms. Gosh that makes me want to cry.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/9/2008 10:41:13 PM

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Frankly I'm surprised Cleveland has handled this with any measure of respect for the transgendered....but like most people who've posted, I see both sides of the issue. Seems to me it'd be a relief to everyone if women and their kids could change in relative privacy, and that this would solve the problem. How much could it cost to put up some shower curtains?

candystripper

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/10/2008 12:56:25 AM

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That'd be such a hard possition to be in. Poor woman.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/11/2008 3:15:05 AM

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I think the simplest solution would be putting doors on the stalls in the men's room.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/11/2008 11:50:58 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeidiAnn

For me all sort of dressroom segregation is pretty much discrimination. i agree that there should be dressing room facilities for people who for some reason feel uncomfortable in using the public ones (i.e. breast cancer patients come to mind), but no one should be made to use such facilities. When the law on gender reassignment was passed here in Finland, they decided that persons right to be physically untouched is greater than peoples right for normative comfort. So, the law was written so that it does not force anyone to mutilate their bodies in order to correct their gender status. That creates a situation where people can have anatomically differing bodies in here and still have protection from gender discrimination.

heidi

I think I want to move to Finland -- that sounds like some of the most progressive, human-centric legislation I've ever heard of.

CFB

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/11/2008 12:07:13 PM

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Womens bathrooms are MUCH more shock safe to take boys in than mens bathrooms to take lil girls in. Nobody in a womans bathroom is standing out in plain site doing their buisness, it's all done behind a stall door. Now I know you can make sure a mens room is clear of pissing men before you go in there with your daughter, but it's much easier to take boys into the womens room than girls into the boys room in my opinion.

And of course I am not saying that there shouldn't be a better solution, I think there should be, I'm just saying in my opinion boys are easier to take into the ladies then girls into the gentlemans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

That's a really tough one. She doesn't feel comfortable in the men's locker room, and you can't blame her for that. But at least some people in the women's locker room are sure to go ballistic if she uses that one. I don't see a good solution for this. A locker room with individual shower and changing stalls could help, but the city clearly doesn't want the expense of adding another locker room. Maybe they need to add a co-ed family room anyway. Fathers with young daughters and mothers with young sons could use it as well.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/11/2008 12:10:32 PM

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I've just went to the pool in what I was going to swim in, so there for no need to go change. And I just walked out of the pool in what I walked into the pool in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: msprudence

I just realized how pools must seem to those who face gender issues.

In 90% of the pools, you enter the main lobby of the pool- pay your entry and then go one direction for the women's room and another to the men's (with the women's on the right most of the time) and end out at the pool. They do this so that people can't walk straight to the pool without changing and showering, which cuts down how frequently the pool has to be cleaned.

But when you have a gender issue, it really must strike as strange to have to make that choice.

Thanks for the post!

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/12/2008 1:18:17 AM

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You didn't shower prior to going into the pool? Most public pools I've known have that as a rule.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/12/2008 9:36:12 AM

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I always ignored that rule. butyou can still shower in your suit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

You didn't shower prior to going into the pool? Most public pools I've known have that as a rule.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/12/2008 11:49:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I think I want to move to Finland -- that sounds like some of the most progressive, human-centric legislation I've ever heard of.

CFB

we do have our problems here too in Finland, but yes, i have many reasons to be happy about my country. :)

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/13/2008 10:24:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I think the simplest solution would be putting doors on the stalls in the men's room.

That actually wouldn;t be a solution at all, since this is a transwoman they're talking about. It's discrimination if someone isn't treated fairly, pure an simple. It isn't fair that someone had to pass as their true gender to be treated right. It isn't easy to look the way you want to.

This actually happened to me, and my college could have solved it by adding stalls to the communal shower area, or even just putting on seperator up so you can't see the showers from the locker section. They flat-out refused to accomodate me, and told me I couldn't use the men's bathrooms on top of that, since they had "found me out".

(in reality, I had requested a locker in the men's locker room and then they found out. Pffft.)

I use whatever I'd like, but I can't even use a restroom at my school without feeling a little angry and bitter. It really sucks.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/14/2008 8:48:38 AM

Naira

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I really feel bad for trans people in cases like this. No matter what you do, you have the possibility of being wrong, yelled at, and possibly kicked out. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Lovely way to live [/sarcasm]

Newer facilities tend to have the third "family" changing room, which I think is a great idea. But, the ones from 20 years ago are only the two. But, the thing is that nothing is going to get better if trans men and women aren't visible and accepted. Shutting them away in their own bathrooms or locker rooms won't help. Hiding things that make people uncomfortable just gives them more fuel to be uncomfortable and pissy.

So with the older facilities where retro-fitting isn't cost effective, I think people should just suck it up and accept that there are transgendered people and quit freaking out when they see them in locker rooms.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 8/16/2008 1:31:43 PM

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I worked in a call center once and was told I could only use the restroom on the third floor – not quite a locker room. Now, I understand why this was done, but regardless it really makes you feel like a freak to have to be segregated like this.

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RE: Transexual fights Cleveland on locker room policy. - 9/8/2008 5:26:57 AM

amuse

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Transsexuals face this sort of dilemma all the time, some worse than others. Throughout transition new challenges come up pretty much continuously... I try to simply avoid them as often as possible.
The last time I went swimming, or used anything beyond a single stall bathroom/change room, was over 5 years ago (the one exception being one friend with a private enough backyard pool a couple years ago). Generally, its just not worth the hassle. And thats coming from a young tranny who passes pretty well.. right there, im a bit in the minority, unfortunately. It can obviously be harder earlier in transition, or for a million other reasons.

I feel being segregated is not acceptable. Providing an alternate space is great, as long as that's what the person wants, but forcing them out of the bathroom fitting their chosen/presenting gender is 100% discrimination.

< Message edited by amuse -- 9/8/2008 5:32:28 AM >

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