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how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 8:54:50 AM   
peppermint379


Posts: 111
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline 		I have a friend...Rob. Rob is in his late 30s. He's a wonderful man, a great friend...would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it. He is also very backward in his social development. In many ways, at least on a social (and perhaps emotional)level, he is a child. He's never had a date, never been kissed....and has yet to fulfill his New Years resolution of at least asking a lady for a date.

I work with Rob. He's a good employee. He's never missed a day's work in 4 years. However, he can't be left to work alone because of his nature. He has no idea how to handle things if something goes a bit wrong. For the first 2 years, he worried every day that he would be fired. He's finally over that. However, he's picked up a new "quirk". Now he worries constantly that he forgot to do something when we close our work area. He follows me home so he can ask me if everything was done. He says he is just making sure i get home okay. Then, after he gets home he calls me to confirm it again. He's been known to call work to ask the janitorial staff to check things for him. He had to be forbidden to enter the building when it's closed to recheck things again.

I've asked him to see a doctor about this, but he will not. I tried having him write down on a piece of paper each task he completes when he closes our work area. I had hoped that being able to read the paper would help relieve his mind. I suspect that this is obsessive/compulsive disorder. The writing things down helps a bit...but i have found that it's not the solution. He still worries and continues with following me home and calling.

I tried another tactic. Every time he asked if we'd done everthing i began to tell him no, we didn't do that. He knows i'm teasing him, but this upset him so much that i had to stop doing it.

I'm not sure if there is any way to help Rob. However, i thought i'd post this here, hoping that someone could give me some advice on how to help him or at least how to help me cope with this man. There have been some days i've teased him that i'd strangle him if i didn't like him so much.



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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 8:59:20 AM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		He needs a therapist, plain and simple. You can't help someone on your own. He needs to see someone who can help him sort out his constant anxiety. There may be a reason behind it all that you'll never be able to uncover without someone trained in psychology.

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 9:03:12 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		This person needs professional help----possibly the whole gamut from neurologist on down.

I don't know comfortable you would feel about actually making appointments for him, but if you feel okay going down that path, do it. You can be encouraging, and offer him your support, but this is a big problem that you should not try to fix on your own.

Ms Francine

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 9:08:00 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Following you is unacceptable...period. Most places of employment have Employee Assistance Programs, intended to provide therapy for work-related issues. You may be able to force him to attend. However, much as i applaud your concern for him, you CANNOT allow your boundaries to be breached this way. In all likelihood he has a fantasy about you; eventually he'll see you with another man and it will undo him.

His conduct seems to be stalking. It's never healthy to allow it to continue and it is very likely to get worse.

i wish both of you the best.

candystripper

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 9:42:19 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not sure if there is any way to help Rob. However, i thought i'd post this here, hoping that someone could give me some advice on how to help him or at least how to help me cope with this man.


this slave was touched by your story about your friend. how sweet of you to want to help him! help is best defined when someone asks for it--how many times do well-meaning folks try to "help", but do nothing but make things worse because their idea of the "problem" or how to "help" is somewhere out there in left field....you say he won't go to the doctor--good for him!!!!!! because after all, it IS his choice unless a member of his family decides differently.

you don't say that he is miserable, or a danger to himself or others, or unable to function and pretty much it is just annoying behavior, right? this slave has had some friends with some pretty annoying behaviors, some even worse than the ones you describe~best way for this slave to cope was to realize that not only can this slave NOT "fix" people so that they are pleasing to her all the time, but to appreciate the good things our friendship brings to the both of us and the individuality that enriched our friendship and helped us both to grow. none of us are perfect.

A degree in Psychology does not a "helper" make. To assume that the only way one can be "helped" is "professionally" is crap. therapy comes in many forms. the best "therapists" this slave has ever met have either been the furry, four-legged kind or the kind that are spiritual in nature and wouldn't require a penny for a "session".

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 10:00:36 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds like classic OCD mixed with a strong case of social ineptitude.

He needs help. Until then, keep boundaries firm, and possibly offer suggestions for how to deal with stress, or "magical" ways for him to check on things without interfering with others.

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 10:35:42 AM   
RosaB


Posts: 852
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Sounds like classic OCD mixed with a strong case of social ineptitude. {quote}

-------------------------------------------------


Sure does. You've suggested he see Doctor and he chooses not to. You will only end up frustrated if you continue allowing him to lean on you this way. He has to want help and it sounds like he's not really interested in fixing what's wrong at this point and time.

You sound like a great friend, but in this case it sounds like he has enablers around him. I would let him know the frustration he's causing to you and those that work with him and explain how it's affecting you in a negative way. Do you end up spending much time worrying over Rob? If so then it's affecting your energy which in turn can't be good for you. If it's not negatively affecting your emotional, physical engery and your not losing any sleep over these quirks, then maybe you'll just need to continue as is, cause Rob isn't planning to change as things stand.

IMO, If he's a caring friend, he should step back and think about whether or not your friendship has value. If he's incapable of doing that, then, I'd have to let him be upset and do what's going to be right for my own well being. Some people just don't want to be helped, especially if they can keep getting away with their behaviors.

Rosa



< Message edited by RosaB -- 11/17/2005 10:37:36 AM >

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 11:25:36 AM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		Some people can not see what they're doing to others Rosa. It's not as simple as him saying oh gee I am bothering someone I should stop.

These types of people usualy have no honest understanding or realization they are being a pest or bugging someone

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 11:30:48 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Although His symptoms sound like OCD I would hesitate in diagnosing Him with OCD - something You mentioned struck a note to me. You say He is
quote:

He is also very backward in his social development. In many ways, at least on a social (and perhaps emotional)level, he is a child.


I would suggest he sounds slightly autistic. He may never have been diagnosed or he may have been, but may be hesitant to let on. Autism comes in many forms, from very slight to severe. If it is Austism, suggesting therapy will not help him, because he won't see a problem. Autistic sufferers tend to be highly intelligent, fastidious and extremely good at what they do as well exceptionally thorough - but it can occur that they have very bad short term memory. People with autism can also 'latch' themselves to individuals and it would be very unlikely he would mean to cause you upset or distress, but he wouldnt understand social ettiquttee that real life contains. He may have a form of aspergers, which is linked to autism also.

I think You are very kind for wanting to spend time to assist this person. Without being able to confirn if it is autism or OCD, it would be difficult to help. He could benefit by being introduced to support groups in the case which relates to him. If you are really that concerned, suggest you go with Him, but remember that this may send out stronger signals for Him to latch harder. Do you have a councillor at work you can speak to? Maybe they can help?

Peace and Rapture

< Message edited by darkangel -- 11/17/2005 11:33:17 AM >

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 11:48:54 AM   
Cloudz


Posts: 836
Joined: 9/13/2005
Status: offline 		Definately sounds like he needs a good going over by a doctor. Can you suggest he have a complete physical...and share his "worries" with the doc?


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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 12:08:33 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not sure if there is any way to help Rob. However, i thought i'd post this here, hoping that someone could give me some advice on how to help him or at least how to help me cope with this man. There have been some days i've teased him that i'd strangle him if i didn't like him so much.

Does he want help? If he doesn't he won't seek any and all the work you put into him will be of no use.
I've been volunteering at a place called the Center for Individuals with Disabilities since I was a teenager. They could help him.
You also have to remember here. the man got the job. Surely he impressed someone enough for them to hire him and assume he could do the job.
Is he having problems with his superiors? Perhaps he has a crush on you if he isn't. There are so many variables here.
Professional help also will not help him if he doesn't want the help in the first place. He must have something more than a childlike mentality because he is holding down a job.

Too many questions to accurately answer anything here.





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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 12:14:36 PM   
RosaB


Posts: 852
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I understand what you are saying and I agree that some people can't see how they are affecting others, that is why I said to bring it to the persons attention. Also, the OP did say they suggested the person see a doctor, which in turn the person chose not to. You can only hold a person's hand for so long till you end up being the person laying on a couch or exam table.

None of us here can know what the persons diagnosis will be, we can only make guesses, which are most likely way off target, but hey sometimes we like to hear ourselves talk. But mostly we're just trying to be helpful in some small way. Believe me you won't find a more sympatheic/empathic person than myself. But I am not willing to go down with the ship if the person isn't going to grab ahold of the life preserver.

PS I've worked with the mentally/physically disabled, have delt with many similar situations. Beyond declaring a person incompetent, (unless it's also another type of court ordered situation,) you can't force someone into seeking treatment. Look at all those lost homeless souls walking the streets who refuse treatment.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

Some people can not see what they're doing to others Rosa. It's not as simple as him saying oh gee I am bothering someone I should stop.

These types of people usualy have no honest understanding or realization they are being a pest or bugging someone



< Message edited by RosaB -- 11/17/2005 12:26:35 PM >

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 7:18:04 PM   
MissDiandSirHugh


Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Goondiwindi ( Qld )
Status: offline 		Just a thought on making sure your friend has done all the things he has to at the end of the shift would be if you get two copies of what has to be done and have them laminated so each day he crosses them off both and keeps one him self and the other at work or you have it and run through it with him so he can see yes all done and finished properly.
We can not give any advice on what else you can or can not do for your friend in any other way but good luck in it all.

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 8:34:18 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		obsessive-compulsive behavior.

seek professional treatment. He must. That may mean a 'come to Jesus' meeting.

You can only do what you can do tho.

Have him make a list for you of what should be done, ask his help.

once he has the list, knowing that it is a cooperative effort, you jointly review.......this is the list. You have a copy, he has a copy, he checks the boxes. The end of this list is some closure for the day.

maybe a little more flourish, but Rob is done, has all his boxes checked and go home, relax, feel good...you see what I am driving at.

Only you get to check that box for him. He brings it in in the morning and you review......yep all his boxes are checked........ It was done (you sure know it was) Bring stars if you have to like he is in kindergarden.......the idea is not to obscess
on any particular thing.


But you have to be cool, calm and collected.

He follows rules right? Not allowed in the building and so forth........

Then the rule is he must not focus that intently, he has an interest, does he read? Watch movies? Make him dissapate himself.

Again if it is as you say it is a pretty good obscessive-compulsive disorder.......

He needs to deal with it..........

maybe another checklist......
See doctor.
Know why
Explain.
do this and this.

Randomly,
Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 9:00:15 PM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkangel

Although His symptoms sound like OCD I would hesitate in diagnosing Him with OCD -


That was the first thing I thought of too, but since I'm not a doctor, well, you know the rest.

quote:

I would suggest he sounds slightly autistic. He may never have been diagnosed or he may have been, but may be hesitant to let on. Autism comes in many forms, from very slight to severe.


darkangel, you also mentioned Asperger's syndrome, which could very well be part of Rob's problem. I know someone with Asperger's; the man is absolutely brilliant, but not too high on the social skills scale. So thank you for bringing this aspect up.

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 9:47:07 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		First off, I tend to agree with Merc & beth in that a Psych degree does not a therapist make. Not all practising Psychs are all that good either. I'd favour a long terl help situation which wiould include a series of tests to see what conditions exist if any. Therapy wise, if Rob likes animals, I am definately in favour of animal therapy. I'd also like to try to logs his "trigger" points where he looses the plot and so work out a program so he can continue being employed in areas or jobs/tasks which are not onkly within his capabilities but which provide challanges for him to resolve too. I'm not 100% certain that he either has a fixation on you or is stalking. To be really sure you'd need to get into his head space and see how he views you. Hi most likely has you on a pedistal and has given you some form od Goddess status (My terminology). This has both good and negative faces. On the positive side, you appear to me the person who is most likly to excert a positive influence on him and encourage him to see specialists etc and I'd immagine you are one person he could turn to if things went pear shaped for him. However the negative side is of course the time you feel required to spend helping him if it impinges on your personal or work life. He may too not react well or accept you with another man. It is indeed a tight rope you walk and one which others walk every day.

All I can offer are these few words in cyber space, that bloody duck pond prevents me from thinking about becoming involved in some thing which my heart tells me I would do. I do iffer the prayers of a aging pagan priest / mage (or what ever it is depending on the day, the week and the month).

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 10:31:51 PM   
peppermint379


Posts: 111
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline 		I want to thank everyone who has replied to my message. It's good to get others' imput into the situation. I will definately read up on Asperger's syndrome and read more an autism. I need to read on autism anyway because my 18 month old grandson is most likely autistic. Grandson is already getting some of the help he requires.

I was thinking about how i could describe him better and the only thing i could come up with is Peter Pan. It's as if Rob has never grown up. He can have small temper tantrums at work, sometimes pouts. He sometimes acts before he thinks...much as a child might. Yet, he has a wonderful innocence about him. I've heard adults talking about how nice it would be to return to the innocence of childhood. Well, Rob is a man/child which makes him touchy to deal with at times. I have to remember to treat him as an adult, as well as remember that he does have some childlike ways. He does own and drive a car, but only drives in a limited area. We live on an island, and he only drives in a small portion of the island....never drives to the mainland at all. He has a credit card...pays his bills....yet has few bills because he still lives in a small place on his parent's property.

I have told Rob that a doctor could help him....perhaps calm his anxiety...but he says he can handle it. (shrugs) So at least for now, that option is not available. I did do the list thing at one time, having him cross of what was done and then double checking and making my own mark on his list. It just didn't seem to work for him. I will ask around to see if there are any support groups in this area. This is a small town and even if there is a group, i fear his parents would not look highly on his attending any such group.

As far as him being a stalker...he is not. He has seen me with men, has met my dates, and seems perfectly comfortable with that. In fact, the men in my life also feel protective towards Rob and ask about him frequently. He just needs that extra reassurance that all is done and uses the excuse of making certain i got home safely. Even though i am sure that his following me home is more about his anxieties about work than making certain i am safely home....i have thanked him for his caring. So, in my own way, i have accepted that following me home is something he needs...and not a behavior that i should stop.

All i can say is that he is my friend and will remain my friend. I'll help him as much as i can in whatever ways i can.

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/17/2005 11:45:40 PM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint379

I was thinking about how i could describe him better and the only thing i could come up with is Peter Pan. It's as if Rob has never grown up. He can have small temper tantrums at work, sometimes pouts. He sometimes acts before he thinks...much as a child might. Yet, he has a wonderful innocence about him. I've heard adults talking about how nice it would be to return to the innocence of childhood. Well, Rob is a man/child which makes him touchy to deal with at times. I have to remember to treat him as an adult, as well as remember that he does have some childlike ways. He does own and drive a car, but only drives in a limited area. We live on an island, and he only drives in a small portion of the island....never drives to the mainland at all. He has a credit card...pays his bills....yet has few bills because he still lives in a small place on his parent's property.


That definitely sounds like Autism. As you say, the social aspect is the most difficult since essentially an autistic person does not pick up on social cues, they just literally don't understand them and if they do recognize them intellectually they have to stop and consciously think "what is the socially appropriate response?".

You might try something different, I bet he loves to read, you might give him a copy of "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time" by Mark Haddon. It's a brilliant novel told entirely from the point of view of an autistic boy, see how he responds to it.

It may seem strange to you, but the best way to talk to him about it is completely honestly -- and I mean COMPLETELY, to the point where most people would think you rude for being so blunt. Subtle clues about social behavior don't work, but most functional autistics are very aware that they are "different" and want information about "what am I supposed to do in this situation?". Probably the best thing in terms of practical steps to be taken would be for him to get to know other autistics (possibly online) and talk with them about ways they navigate through life. Obviously he has figured out most things at this point (or has at least found comfortable boundaries), but he seems to have completely opted-out of the social aspect of life and he certainly has many more years to experiment on that.

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RE: how to help a friend - 11/18/2005 12:49:43 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

I have a friend...Rob. Rob is in his late 30s. He's a wonderful man, a great friend...would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it. He is also very backward in his social development. In many ways, at least on a social (and perhaps emotional)level, he is a child. He's never had a date, never been kissed....and has yet to fulfill his New Years resolution of at least asking a lady for a date.


When I was in my early twenties I used to work with guy similar to Rob. A bunch of us got together one night {after work} and decided to take a three-hour ride up to Tahoe. I ended up winning a significant amount of money on two NBA games {At the sports book}, so my compatriots and I decided to drive the extra 40 miles out to Fallon, Nevada and treat this guy to Mustang Ranch.

We sat at the bar for a while and had a few pops, while the girls chatted us up. We then explained to one of the girls that our friend had never been with a woman and we wanted him to be taken care of. To make a long story short, while this experience for him did not amount to a cure-all-end-all, he walked outa the ''Ranch'' a better and more complete dude.


Now.... I'm not saying that this type of experience would help your friend Rob {Because he has a few other problems that my friend didn't have}, but I dare say it wouldn't hurt him.


Best of luck!



- The Ranger




< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 11/18/2005 12:50:53 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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RE: how to help a friend - 11/18/2005 1:07:22 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint379

All i can say is that he is my friend and will remain my friend. I'll help him as much as i can in whatever ways i can.


You understand Aussie mateship. I've been known to wade in here and post the odd comment "F**K with my mate you F**k with me".. It's as simple as that. Friendship is the highest form of relationship from where I stand. I once told Neets when we were courting, that I'd rather have her as a friend than a lover. She is still my best friend., I just went and Handfasted her, Married her and Free Companioned her. You lass have my admiration.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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