RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (Full Version)

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Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 9:35:26 AM)

Another good post but...the question I was addressing more was:

YOU HAVE BEEN VICTIMISED BY A DOM WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING THEY CLEARLY SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE. IT MIGHT NOT BE ILLEGAL...SO WHAT DO YOU DO NOW ??

I'd be interested in subs experiences and other Ds responses



Evanesce -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 9:42:18 AM)

quote:

YOU HAVE BEEN VICTIMISED BY A DOM WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING THEY CLEARLY SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE. IT MIGHT NOT BE ILLEGAL...SO WHAT DO YOU DO NOW ??


Personally, I'd address it with the individual who chose to take such inappropriate actions with me. I have no problem getting in someone's face and telling them off. Depending on their behavior at that point, I might actually make an effort to educate them on what IS acceptable. After that, if they still choose to wallow in ignorance and machismo, I ignore them. If someone else asks me for a reference, I'll give them an earful of my own experience with that individual.

What I will NOT do, is slam their name all over the Internet, because all that does is waste my precious time



Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 9:45:12 AM)


ok, that is great, but if you were not confident enough to do this directly, what then ?



Evanesce -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 9:48:51 AM)

quote:

ok, that is great, but if you were not confident enough to do this directly, what then ?


But I AM confident enough to do it directly. Therefore, I cannot answer this hypothetical, as it is one that would never be faced in my reality.



IrishMist -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 9:49:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000

Another good post but...the question I was addressing more was:

YOU HAVE BEEN VICTIMISED BY A DOM WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING THEY CLEARLY SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE. IT MIGHT NOT BE ILLEGAL...SO WHAT DO YOU DO NOW ??

I'd be interested in subs experiences and other Ds responses


Well, since you use the words "might not be illegal", that makes this harder to answer. As far as legality goes, there is no grey area. Something is either legal, or illegal.

If it is a case of illegal, cut and dried...the obvious answer is to act accordingly. Report it. Laws are in place for a reason, but it is up to us, as citizens, to see that they are enforced.

Now, if it was within legal standards, but was something that was not agreed upon between the Dom and the Sub...now it becomes tricky because you have to rely on your own instincts on how to handle such a situation. There will obviously be a breakdown of trust, a feeling of "being abused and victimized". If the offender was a standing member of the BDSM community, then I would make sure that the community knew of such behavior.

I would not spread the story without giving him/her a chance to defend themselves.
I would not use this as a way to become bitterly angry and obsessive about him/her
I would not spread the name around, unless asked specifically about said person.

Probably NOT the answer you were looking for, but, in reality, every action and reaction that a person has to a given situation is going to be different.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 9:50:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000
YOU HAVE BEEN VICTIMISED BY A DOM WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING THEY CLEARLY SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE. IT MIGHT NOT BE ILLEGAL...SO WHAT DO YOU DO NOW ??

I'd be interested in subs experiences and other Ds responses

Gather my friends and family to give advice and support. Grieve. Accept what I did and try and figure out how not to do it again. Become angry at person. Move on. Life happy life.



SweetSarijane -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 9:55:03 AM)

I read your post in that thread. Due to circumstances it will be several months before I can r/t begin my search for a Dom. I have talked to many online over the last little over a year and have become good friends with a very few. Your post touched on a big concern/fear for me. I fear that I will choose wrong and be badly hurt by a predator. I have had some painful experiences and some upsetting ones over the last several months online.

To give a couple of examples:
One incident was a Dom who contacted me via IM and sent me a link to a site for hypnosis wanting me to focus on the image on it, telling me to relax, concentrate, asking periodically how I was feeling etc...after a few minutes he then asked if I had a cam wanting me to put it on for him to see me. It raised a huge red flag and I declined to go on cam and haven't spoken to him again. This was initial contact, first conversation with him that this happened.

Another incident recently was a Dom again IM contact, first day talking, and he claimed to have just bought a refinery of some kind in my area and wanted to share 40% of the weekly profits of $250,000 with me making me his partner if I would only pay 40% of $3000 registration fee to finalize the sale. Again, huge red flag, and I refused nicely. Needless to say he was not very happy and made that fact well known to me. Of course I haven't spoken with him since either.

There are all kinds of predators out there. I have been in a r/t abusive "vanilla" relationship. I never want to go through that again. I hope by taking my time, and using the fact that I can't yet begin to try r/t to find a Dom for me, spending my time learning and talking with those into D/s even only online, that I will be better prepared and able to avoid being the victim of a predator. I have also found a group in my area and hope at some point soon, early next year maybe, to attend my first munch and begin making r/t friends in the L/s.



perverseangelic -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 9:55:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000

Another good post but...the question I was addressing more was:

YOU HAVE BEEN VICTIMISED BY A DOM WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING THEY CLEARLY SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE. IT MIGHT NOT BE ILLEGAL...SO WHAT DO YOU DO NOW ??

I'd be interested in subs experiences and other Ds responses



1)Leave the person.

2)Tell the person what they did was wrong, in a letter or to their face.

3)If you believe it was serious enough to warent this, document anything that might be illegal and go to the police. Be prepared to deal with accusations based on your lifestyle choices. Keep records of any further contact that individual has with you.

4)Warn your -immediate- friends. That is, individuals with whom you have close, personal relationships.

5)Do your best to go through -legal- not reputation-challenging avenues to get the individual removed from a place where he/she can hurt others.

6)Do -not- smear the person on the net. It makes -you- look stupid, and as if you're trying to get revenge for being scorned or something similar. Regardless as to the truth of the situation, the person 'telling' ends up looking like the bad guy when they call out names. Feel free to tell your story, in fact, do so if it will help educate, but to say "DOMX is a bastard, look what he did to me" no matter if that's -true- or not, makes theperson reporting look bad.




I've been involved in BDSM since I was as young as your girl here. I've met many, manypeople and played with quite a few. I have never had a mentor, beyond someone I talked to alot online and never met.Have yet to end up in a situation I couldn't extricate myself from.

This is not to say that individuals who get abused were somehow at fault or less than or making stupid choices.

It -is- to say that it is possible to be young, a novice and -not- get yourself in life-threatening situations. I think the -best- thing we can do is teach new people AND young people ways to be safe. I think we need to work on cultivating good judement in the -individual- rather than reliance on an older, and in the case of female submissive people, male, dominant person to make good decitions -for- the newbie.

Yes, I htink mentors can be a good idea, but we put too much emphasis on trusting the -mentor- to make the judgement, and trusting the White Knight Dom to make the rescue. I think we need to be teaching people how to stand up for themselves, be safe, and make safe choices. AND how to take action through -legal- means should something awful happen INSTEAD of some anonomous internet reporting.



MsIncognito -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 10:17:20 AM)

Since this has actually happened to me I'll tell you what I did. First and foremost I figuratively kicked myself for being so blinded by my wants and what I wanted to see that I put myself in that position. There were all kinds of warning signs that I either ignored or rationalized. He was smart enough to tell me exactly what I wanted to hear. I did the rest: I went to him. I suspended disbelief long enough to allow myself to be taken advantage of. Secondly, I took responsibility for my part in this. No, he shouldn't have exceeded the bounds of what we agreed to but he did. I'm no spring chicken and I know that sometimes people just suck. I didn't waste time on self-absorbed "Why did he do this to me?" bullshit. I accepted that the only answer to that question I would ever get was "Because he could." Third, I learned from it and vowed to never let my rational mind override my gut feelings again. Lesson learned. It hasn't happened since and I won't let it happen again. Lastly, I took appropriate precautions to make sure/find out if there were any lasting repercussions from his actions. I got off lucky that time. It would be stupid to take a chance like that again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000

YOU HAVE BEEN VICTIMISED BY A DOM WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING THEY CLEARLY SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE. IT MIGHT NOT BE ILLEGAL...SO WHAT DO YOU DO NOW ??




Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 10:24:58 AM)

thanks.



Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 10:29:38 AM)


That is true. The Vanilla world is little different from BDSM in that respect.

You seem to be alert to predation and I suppose it a question of being vigilant and trusting the strength of your responses, and trying to respond intellectually more than emotionally to begin with. Some newbie subs are like kamikaze pilots, and despite warnings, the inevitable crash landings are hard. I am not a BDSM therapist, but I do believe the wider community has a a role to play in restoring confidence and rehabilitating. That is a clearly a person opinion. I think finding a group and going to a few munches will develop your confidence and awareness.

That it slowly, you have a lifetime. Good Luck.
(Distrust everyone initially, even me).



Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 10:30:28 AM)

Thanks for that I am sure someone will find it helpful.



Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 10:36:42 AM)


I think you male several pojnts very strongly. I think the point about developing independence and good decision-making is of paramount importance.

I am also not personally in favour of internet reportage. For the incidents I described clearly charges of assault or grievious bodily harm could have been brought but in this case would not have served the complainant well given she was pretty freaked out by it and needed to recover, heal and put it all behind her.

Someone who plays with people who are under the age of consent is a definite red flag.

I wonder whether a ratings system like ebay or the like would be useful ?

I am still uncertain as to what can be done for sub-illegal stuff--I think the suggestions given are prudent and proper and possibly the ones worth developing....






perverseangelic -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 10:40:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000

Someone who plays with people who are under the age of consent is a definite red flag.

Not if that player is -also- under the age of consent.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 10:47:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000
I am also not personally in favour of internet reportage. For the incidents I described clearly charges of assault or grievious bodily harm could have been brought but in this case would not have served the complainant well given she was pretty freaked out by it and needed to recover, heal and put it all behind her.

OK this is completely opposite from what you said earlier today:

I am not sure why this site just doesn't have a messageboard which is a free for all where these people can be taken to task.
quote:


Someone who plays with people who are under the age of consent is a definite red flag.

As Perverse pointed out, unless you are also under the age. There always have been under the age people doing bdsm and it is increasingly dramatically.
quote:


I wonder whether a ratings system like ebay or the like would be useful ?

Wouldn't that be internet reportage?



Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 10:54:00 AM)

People are allowed to change their minds, and to act as agent provocateurs to elict opinion.
As it is the two are not irreconciliable.

As I pointed out in a earlier post, the person in question is now 34.

Wouldn't that just be being didactic for the sake of being didactic ?




ExistentialSteel -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 11:21:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000
The point about investing is a good one. I guess from my point of view, having identified that they are people out there who need to be informed, how do you that so both Ds and Subs can act.

One also needs to keep in mind the SCORES of submissives who are either scorned women or who simply didn't get pampered like they wanted and thus turn it around and make themselves into victims.

Happens all the time.


Absolutely, I can attest to this. I once belonged to a local BDSM chatroom on AOL (Southern Submissives) and after having a great time with a sub, I decided not to pursue things further. She informed the room that I had beaten her badly, etc. It was all about rejection and not the truth.

How do you know the sub you are talking to is being objective? Even though you saw this same dom beat someone in the club once, it may not be that simple. Tread carefully and if you are really set on this thing, ask the dom in question his side. You may be surprised.



MsIncognito -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 11:24:42 AM)

Is there any other reason to be didactic?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000
Wouldn't that just be didactic for the sake of being didactic ?



Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 11:30:27 AM)

yes.

some people (Sahlins, Spivak, Fuss, etc) etc are unintentionally didactic because that is the way they are. Just as you and I are the way we are. I just hope that you and I respect each other for that. Others seem to think I am trying to be clever. I am me.

what I was getting out was that it seemed overly pedantic as if she was trying to catch an errant schoolboy cheating on a math test....and ok, I can get 95 for Calculus but it is easy to berate me for lack, or what is not there.

In my defence it is 9.10am here and I still will need to go to bed soon. :D

Re below....I am not sure I will sleep as I have a busy day but tonight--you betcha ! :-)



MsIncognito -> RE: The Predator Dom-how you claim redress ? (11/18/2005 11:37:27 AM)

I think you're right about that. Sleep well [:D]



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