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RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 8:52:40 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyM66

Ugh. I can just imagine that there well may have been nothing more I could have done to make this better...but *please* if you have any advice, i'm all ears.

~ mariana
Independently owned and operated by Ron

I don't think there's anything that you could have done to prevent it. Sometimes there's just disagreements and dropping the ball that happens on both sides and I think what makes a relationship last and get stronger is how they are handled, becuase I think they are unavoidable.

C~

P.S. Good to see you on CM!

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to LadyM66)

Post #: 21

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 9:21:34 AM

LadyM66

Posts: 7
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

Aw thanks on both counts! It is mentally a relief to hear... I think you are very right in that it is how it is handled ultimately and "processed" that is important. I think some of *my* ball-dropping was minorly passive aggressive. I don't think I've adequately felt empowered or able to express my upset and desire for some sort of amends. I think its silly to think that Dom/mes don't make mistakes. But not to *own* them is highly aggravating to me. A major part of this conundrum is that I neither want nor need Master to feel bad. That's actually a really Bad Idea.

However, and this is a big "however", I do need everybody involved to be a grown-up. I guess I am angry still. Slave or not, I do not think its healthy for me to be holding on to resentment. Part of me is worried that this was a major lapse in judgment on his part and it worries me. His verbally making amends, simply saying, "Wow, I really contributed to some misery here, *and* I tried to blame it on you. I realize it was mostly my fault, and I'm sorry," -- that would make me feel better. But I get the feeling it would make him feel like a failure. Not what I want!

*sigh* I really, really, really want him to be happy. How do I communicate that he got in the way of that?? Part of it has to do with the D/s polarity tension. I remember the poster from the 80s that said, "Lead, follow or get out of the way." He did none of the above and didn't take responsibility (own the problem until after the fact), and it pisses me off. :( Part of me thinks, wow, we're all just doing the best we can....then I look at the eternity collar around my neck and think, wow, I'm supposed to be a helluva lot more than a bedroom sub and he more than a spankandtickle guy, isn't this supposed to involve some serious leadership? Maybe I'm being waaaaaaaaaay too harsh, but I take my duties as slave very, very seriously.

It's funny, I talked about this with my mom (minus the D/s!) and she told me to let the whole thing go. Maybe I should. I feel like a class A bitch when I don't, but I feel like a doormat when I do.

Thanks C for your kind words.

M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyM66

Ugh. I can just imagine that there well may have been nothing more I could have done to make this better...but *please* if you have any advice, i'm all ears.

~ mariana
Independently owned and operated by Ron

I don't think there's anything that you could have done to prevent it. Sometimes there's just disagreements and dropping the ball that happens on both sides and I think what makes a relationship last and get stronger is how they are handled, becuase I think they are unavoidable.

C~

P.S. Good to see you on CM!

_____________________________

Warrior ~ mother ~ shaman ~ trickster ~ On the ordeal path

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 22

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 9:21:39 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone35

This is mostly for submissives but all are welcome to answer.

Has your Master/Daddy/Dom ever ask you to do something (non Sexual)you really really did not want to do? If so did you:
1. Do it happily because it pleased him
2. Do it because it was expected of you
3. Respectfully refuse to do it

This came to mind because i was talking to a friend who is 24/7 with her Master. She works outside the house, and one day she was really tired and her Master wanted her to make this big fancy dinner. She did it because it was expected of her, but she was not a happy submissive. Her Dom knew how tired she was but he wanted what he wanted. She did however get cuddles andd praises later.

Matt's littleone

If I was that exhausted, I would inform Darcy and then he would be able to make an informed decision. The three eamples you gave would be pointless in a relationship where communication rocked.
If I was tired and felt I could still continue with a task and complete it to a high standard, then I would do it. But if my tiredness meant that I may not complete said task without errors and if I was doing it 'just because' and being grumpy and unhappy about it - I would inform Darcy because is Master and has the right to know.

How can anyone function without being fully informed?

If he decided I was to do it, then I do. I don't get unhappy about it, I get on with it. If you (generic) are submitting under duress, then seriously what is the point? You are just 'doing' - you aren't submitting.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 23

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 9:35:42 AM

LadyM66

Posts: 7
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

Thank you for your wonderful and pithy post. I think the issue here is transparency, to a degree. I think the sub/slave should communicate about reality and feelings. I guess i wonder if there is also a corresponding responsibility on the Dom/me side that makes an attempt at common sense and empathy? I think part of being a good leader and Dom/me is some ability to suss out a situation without having to have every detail. If you can tell someone is exhausted, how does that temper your request? Should Dom/mes make an attempt to notice things like exhaustion?

I think its one thing if you are setting up a test of some sort, a desire to test limits and help a sub/slave grow in their submission and service, and quite another to be unnecessarily insensitive. Perhaps YYMV quite a bit individually in relationships. Maybe some subs do not require sensitivity.

I guess I think that its one thing to need more information to be fully informed, but honestly? If its obvious that someone is exhausted (or upon a quick musing you could assume that they were) how much information does a top need?? As someone who is a "full" switch, who has lived 24/7 with a male sub, I can't imagine subjecting that person with a major task of service right when they walk in the door from a long day. Maybe that's just me. I think the long haul has to be considered, and if you keep doing that to someone, they will get burned out.

I'm confused :( I'm really hoping more people will contribute to the discussion.

M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone35

This is mostly for submissives but all are welcome to answer.

Has your Master/Daddy/Dom ever ask you to do something (non Sexual)you really really did not want to do? If so did you:
1. Do it happily because it pleased him
2. Do it because it was expected of you
3. Respectfully refuse to do it

[snipped for length]
Matt's littleone

If I was that exhausted, I would inform Darcy and then he would be able to make an informed decision. The three eamples you gave would be pointless in a relationship where communication rocked.
If I was tired and felt I could still continue with a task and complete it to a high standard, then I would do it. But if my tiredness meant that I may not complete said task without errors and if I was doing it 'just because' and being grumpy and unhappy about it - I would inform Darcy because is Master and has the right to know.

How can anyone function without being fully informed?

If he decided I was to do it, then I do. I don't get unhappy about it, I get on with it. If you (generic) are submitting under duress, then seriously what is the point? You are just 'doing' - you aren't submitting.

the.dark.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 24

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 9:58:49 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I completely agree that empathy plays a big part. But I do believe that many people come into a relationship falsely. The beginning of a relationship is the time for total honesty, but that rarely happens because many people are uncomfortable with themselves and do not trust that they can be adored for being themselves. So they do more than they can handle instead of being totally honest.

Dominants cannot be expected to nurture or make decision on half or false info. So instead, peopledo the assignment and then grump and sulk and blame the dominant later for not being more empathic. But people can only be empathic as far as people let them in.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to LadyM66)

Post #: 25

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 10:28:42 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Has your Master/Daddy/Dom ever ask you to do something (non Sexual)you really really did not want to do?

He might ask if she feels she has sufficient time to complete a task, before assigning another one, or what she thinks about a particular task, like if it might be outside of her realm of expertise...but He does not "ask" her to do anything, thankfully.

this slave did not sign up to be the one deciding or being asked--sexually or otherwise.

this slave is the one who asks, even begs, sometimes, to do things for Him.

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 26

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 10:35:48 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone35

This is mostly for submissives but all are welcome to answer.

Has your Master/Daddy/Dom ever ask you to do something (non Sexual)you really really did not want to do? If so did you:
1. Do it happily because it pleased him
2. Do it because it was expected of you
3. Respectfully refuse to do it

Yes, frequently. Even at this distance I still have things to do for Him. Exercise for example. I have to do over an hour ... everyday. No matter how tired I am, or how long my day was, or whatever else I want to do ... I have to make it to the gym.

General expectations I just get done, with as little fuss or bother as possible. I am after all .... a slave. Yanno ... those people with the role in life to complete the orders they are given pretty much no matter what.
I do my best to do things happily because they please Him. Finishing a task in a grump doesn't get me anywhere, I dont win anything, I dont score any points for myself. Doing something unpleasant as happily as I can might however.

If its something that I simply wont do (like breaking my word to someone) then I respectfully refuse to comply with Sir's wishes, and prepare myself for the consequences of that. We have this a lot about my work. Sir does not give me permission to launch myself into the middle of fights at school and pull kids apart (we are talking 16 year old yobs not little scallywags) We both know however that I will just plain go ahead and ignore that instruction if I see kids in danger. If I come home hurt from doing so, Sir will have something to say, and no doubt do about my decision not to comply with his orders.
If it is something that with the best will in the world I *will* attempt to do, but know its a lost cause - I communicate that to Sir and wait for His decision.

It is expected of me to be compliant in all things. I am not perfect. Sometimes I simply wont be ... and there will be consequences for that.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 27

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 11:01:19 AM

LadyM66

Posts: 7
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

I agree that there can be falsity and lack of honesty... in my case its not the beginning of a relationship, but rather the beginning of living together. It can be similar, of course.

I think what has to be considered is that as a *slave* I have trusted that I would not be given more than I could handle and because I always *could* handle it, and never had to say anything in the past, that a different model of communication is called for on my part, AND greater empathy on his part.

Responsibility on the part of an Owner or Master is a big thing, too. Like a horse, you can't ride 'em hard and put 'em away wet and not expect a bad result. Wait, that sounded like fun....

M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I completely agree that empathy plays a big part. But I do believe that many people come into a relationship falsely. The beginning of a relationship is the time for total honesty, but that rarely happens because many people are uncomfortable with themselves and do not trust that they can be adored for being themselves. So they do more than they can handle instead of being totally honest.

Dominants cannot be expected to nurture or make decision on half or false info. So instead, peopledo the assignment and then grump and sulk and blame the dominant later for not being more empathic. But people can only be empathic as far as people let them in.

the.dark.

_____________________________

Warrior ~ mother ~ shaman ~ trickster ~ On the ordeal path

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 28

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 11:09:43 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyM66
I'm confused :( I'm really hoping more people will contribute to the discussion.

Some people need to know they can keep going, whether tired or not, and need to learn not to submit to their own definition of "exhaustion." (it's a word that can be used dramatically, too). Would a mother not nurture her screaming baby because she was tired after work?

I'm thinking of two summers ago, when (until recently) I was owned by a wonderful man. I was in school, working, and my father was dtying. And I was still expected to complete my assignments for my Master - why? He knew it kept me focused. He knew the one non stressful thing for me was submitting to him, no matter how tired I was. He allowed for some leniency of deadlines because he wanted attention to my father to come first at that time. But I remained held to the same high standard he always held me to. I was grateful for it. I am still grateful for it. Because of that, I now know I am capable of so much more than I previously thought. I now know that even though I am tired, when it counts I can get through anything.

Now I am unowned, but I have learned a strength about myself that will be invaluable to me in my future. I have learned when to forge on, and when to stop and pamper myself. I would not have learned this if I were not pushed as I was, or if I had been coddled because of a hard work day. We all have hard days, after all. Do we want that to rule us, or do we want to find our center (in my case it was submitting to my Master), and make the best of ourselves?

Hope that helps.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to LadyM66)

Post #: 29

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 11:10:46 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyM66

Like a horse, you can't ride 'em hard and put 'em away wet and not expect a bad result. Wait, that sounded like fun....

Actually, for some people that's not a bad thing, and the results can be good.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to LadyM66)

Post #: 30

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 12:28:19 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

I usually end up doing as I'm told after expressing my desire to not do it. For instance, taking him shopping at 10 in the morning after working until 7:30 in the morning. I was flat exhausted. I didn't, however, do it with a good attitude, which was not, at the time, requested or required.

Ditto.

The good thing about Doms is that often only the action, not the "correct" attitude is required.

(in reply to StormsSlave)

Post #: 31

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 1:02:07 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyM66
I'm confused :( I'm really hoping more people will contribute to the discussion.

Some people need to know they can keep going, whether tired or not, and need to learn not to submit to their own definition of "exhaustion." (it's a word that can be used dramatically, too). Would a mother not nurture her screaming baby because she was tired after work?

They can and would, but sometimes, it can be detrimental to their own health and they end up suffering PND or other such disorders. It is important to realise ones own strength and limits and to communicate these to the dominant and it is equally important that the dominant be vigilant to any downward spiral of their property.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 32

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 1:20:59 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
They can and would, but sometimes, it can be detrimental to their own health and they end up suffering PND or other such disorders. It is important to realise ones own strength and limits and to communicate these to the dominant and it is equally important that the dominant be vigilant to any downward spiral of their property.

the.dark.

Oh I agree, the.dark. Definitely not everyone's cup of java. My point in posting it was to share what my perspective was, with Mr. Wonderful, to show where in some cases, it does work well. As you know, with he and I, communication was critically important in our relationship, and he had his thumb on the pulse of my thoughts and feelings at all times. Pushing someone in ignorance of what is really going on with them can be very harmful. In my case, it was extremely beneficial. Since she wanted to understand (or so I gathered) the "other side" of being pushed, I shared mine. :)

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 33

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 3:36:03 PM

metalmiss

Posts: 341
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline

For me probably a mixture of 1 & 2. i would begin by doing it because it was expected of me.. And once i got into the flow a little bit, i would start to be going more along the lines of actually enjoying the task because it pleased Him.. And looking forward to seeing the smile on His face once its finished..

One time this has happened comes to mind.. Does scrubbing the living room floor, butt naked, with the builders on the other side of the street watching count as non-sexual? Because technically it is housework..
At the start i HATED Him, but i did it, because He was sat there ordering me to take my clothes off.. After the first 5 minutes i was getting a buzz out of His amusement as i tried desperately to scrub the floor while attempting to hide behind the furniture.

_____________________________

"The longing to serve, to submit, to abandon oneself sexually, emotionally, and physically makes one a slave either to a Man, a Woman or to God. Submission to that passion is divine degradation." - Dorothy C. Hayden

Owned by RavenMuse

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 34

RE: Expected? - 8/6/2008 10:33:32 PM

DarkVictory

Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline

You're a good girl. Back under the desk.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 35

RE: Expected? - 8/7/2008 4:49:03 AM

XaviersXian

Posts: 525
Joined: 9/8/2007
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone35

This is mostly for submissives but all are welcome to answer.

Has your Master/Daddy/Dom ever ask you to do something (non Sexual)you really really did not want to do? If so did you:
1. Do it happily because it pleased him
2. Do it because it was expected of you
3. Respectfully refuse to do it

This came to mind because i was talking to a friend who is 24/7 with her Master. She works outside the house, and one day she was really tired and her Master wanted her to make this big fancy dinner. She did it because it was expected of her, but she was not a happy submissive. Her Dom knew how tired she was but he wanted what he wanted. She did however get cuddles andd praises later.

Matt's littleone

greetings to all,

It is always either 1 or 2. In our dynamic, I have no "rights" or "choices" of my own. If Master orders something that seriously conflicts with some aspect of my personal morality (to the point of doing me serious, lasting damage) then I am permitted to discuss it with him. He then tends to work out a mutually beneficial solution.

Things like "exhaustion" are all under his interpretation; I have proven to him more than once that I can (as someone else here said) push through "my own definition of exhaustion" and carry out an order he gives.

Service is about him...it is only about me if it pleases him to put the focus on me.

well wishes,

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 36

RE: Expected? - 8/7/2008 6:23:05 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

You're a good girl. Back under the desk.

*grins* ... yaaaaaaaaaay!

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to DarkVictory)

Post #: 37

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