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RE: write and read the right rant - 7/31/2004 3:44:14 AM

iwillserveu

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SherriA,

It was not a done deal here either until about 1960 - 1976. Starting with Kennedy's campaigning in primaries to Carter's starting in Iowa US politics started moving from smoky back room deals (Like that wihich compromised on Harry Truman as FDR's running mate) to (almost) every state having a primary. It took a while for the media to notice that the Drama of a convention does not exist anymore.

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When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to SherriA)

Post #: 21

RE: write and read the right rant - 7/31/2004 3:51:08 AM

kiki blue

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Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
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*blinks as this whole thread goes way over her head*

(it's coz I'm not American, remember)

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Post #: 22

RE: write and read the right rant - 7/31/2004 4:00:23 AM

iwillserveu

Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Thantosian,

The "liberal" or "conservative" bias is a myth. All media is biased, but I can say from experience it is incumbent bias.

I attended "debates" for the Massachusetts governor. It was before the Democrats settled on a candidate, but it was open. There'd be five Democrats, the Libertarian, and the Green. The newspapers (Globe AND Herald, liberal and conservative) decided that to give a paragraph to each candidate and the Republican front runner who did not attend. They'd get wrong that there was a Libertarian and a Green. The only explanation for not getting right who was in the room was an overt incumbent party bias.)

To make matters worse we have the TV debates. A forum of the three network affilated TV stations, The PBS station, the Globe, and the cable station declared themselves gate keepers of the debates.

Surprise, surprise, only the incumbent parties got invited in the debate at 8pm on all the major TV stations. (If you think televised debates are not important, tell Ross Perot.)

Eventually the Libertarians, Greens, and one independant, got a sop. It was broadcast on UHF at 11 at night.

BTW, if you contribute to PBS, thank you for supporting my jazz habit.

(Oh, I forgot, no thank you is necessary since you don't have a choice.

)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Thanatosian)

Post #: 23

RE: write and read the right rant - 7/31/2004 7:10:03 AM

basiasubrosa

Posts: 130
Joined: 6/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA
Give some of that attention to Barack Obama and I think the Dems would be in much better stead. That's a man who's going somewhere, for the good of EVERYONE, regardless of race, religion, economic standing or party affiliation. He wow'd me.

Hear, hear! My eyes are glued on him now. But goodness he was sure nervous during the first half of his speech. Poor man.

(in reply to SherriA)

Post #: 24

RE: write and read the right rant - 7/31/2004 7:27:46 AM

cheeba0228

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
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no, i'm sure he could be president. Like President of the P diddy fan club, or like President of R.A.N.T. Reverands Against Normal Thinking.

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BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING "HOLY
SHIT......WHAT A RIDE!

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 25

RE: write and read the right rant - 7/31/2004 7:30:35 AM

cheeba0228

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Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
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I think he just says whatever will get the crown riles up. He doesnt care what topic it is. He could be talking about about haloween costumes and people dressing up as a giant condom. He wouldnt care as long as the crowd was into it. And making donations to his church of course.

(in reply to cheeba0228)

Post #: 26

RE: write and read the right rant - 7/31/2004 8:54:51 AM

dixiedumpling

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Joined: 5/10/2004
From: southeast Mississippi
Status: offline

In the early years of the history of America, the also ran became the Vice President nominee. He was elected on a second ticket. I was just at Truman's museum in June. I should have remembered reading about how he was selected for FDR's running mate on his last term. It was a compromise that the party bosses worked out even tho FDR wasn't thrilled. But the bosses knew FDR wouldn't live to finish his term. Now the presidential nominee choses someone to "fill" out the ticket. Someone to balance their liberal (or conservative) view point or someone to "carry" a certain part of the country. JFK chose someone from Texas who was as different from him in personality as could be (except for the womanizing). Kerry chose Edwards to help with the southern vote. Bush has Cheney... why? Hmmm. He has the brain?

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dixiedumpling

My mind is no place to play alone. Anna Pigeon as written by Nevada Barr

(in reply to SherriA)

Post #: 27

RE: write and read the right rant - 7/31/2004 9:46:11 AM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

Bush has Cheney... why? Hmmm. He has the brain?

Somebody in the White House has a brain? They hide it well.

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to dixiedumpling)

Post #: 28

RE: write and read the right rant - 7/31/2004 12:15:27 PM

Thanatosian

Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
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quote:

All media is biased, but I can say from experience it is incumbent bias.

if this were true, then the media would not be slobbering all over themselves in near orgasmic bliss over Kerry/Edwards, they would be more sup[portive of Bush

quote:

BTW, if you contribute to PBS, thank you for supporting my jazz habit. (Oh, I forgot, no thank you is necessary since you don't have a choice. )

no problem - and thank you for supporrting my "Echoes" and "hearts of Space" habit on public radio

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Apply Usual Caveats Here

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(in reply to iwillserveu)

Post #: 29

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/1/2004 8:03:56 AM

basiasubrosa

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Joined: 6/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian

quote:

All media is biased, but I can say from experience it is incumbent bias.

if this were true, then the media would not be slobbering all over themselves in near orgasmic bliss over Kerry/Edwards, they would be more sup[portive of Bush

Hm. [Nonpartisan rambling:] I don't know what US media is like over there right now, as i am on the other side of the world. And i never watch television anyway. But over the years (in the US), i must say i was quite shocked at how lenient and indulgent the media was toward Bush. (Compare with the amount of criticism Blair received over Iraq, from the very beginning.) May i venture to say that the media in general is quite lenient to the 'powers that be'? Mainstream media and their audience just don't inquire very deeply. And a vast majority of US politicians and corporate heads and whatnot prefer, if not actively shape, it that way.

Now, this is not an anti-US bash. I grew up under the remnant shadow of a military dictatorship, so, yes, the US is a whole lot better off than many many other places out there. However, as the US is/are (sing. or plur.?) the single weathiest and mightiest political state, and a haven for higher learning, one would hope that it may also strive to higher standards of self-reflection, integrity, responsibility, and perhaps even learn to match its power with equal wisdom.

Just my humble and still somewhat idealistic opinion.

(in reply to Thanatosian)

Post #: 30

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/1/2004 11:47:46 AM

Estring

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basia, what would this world be like if the United States never existed? You would have Communism, Nazism and Radical Islam fighting to own the world. The United States has done more good for this world than any country in history. We give more aid to other countries, we save other countries asses ( France ), and we understand that evil needs to be confronted and defeated. It's not an accident that this country is the most powerful and succesful country in the world. And to use that power to spread the ideas of freedom and Democracy seems to be a good use of that power. You of all people should understand that.

(in reply to basiasubrosa)

Post #: 31

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/1/2004 12:22:00 PM

iwillserveu

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kiki blue,

At least you don't have to listen to us prattle about football. Oh, not soccer, the NFL thing.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to kiki blue)

Post #: 32

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/1/2004 12:25:27 PM

iwillserveu

Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Al Sharpton is a Presidential nominee in his mind only.

Which is more frightening? President Sharpton or President Robertson?

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 33

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/1/2004 12:39:03 PM

iwillserveu

Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

if this were true, then the media would not be slobbering all over themselves in near orgasmic bliss over Kerry/Edwards, they would be more supportive of Bush

Actually the Demican and Republicrats are the same party. The rich white dude who went to an ivy league college and has a law degree party.

(Best Libertarian election slogan: Vote for Smith. He's not a Democrat, a Republican, or even a lawyer!

)

Seriously, there are Democrats in Congress.

Also seriously, we also have a two party system with one party. Don't believe me, check to see if some corporations donate to both campaigns. (Yes, there is a difference between Democrats and Republicans. One taxes and spends and one borrows and spends. They agree on spending, again don't believe me just see who sponsored the bill that perpetuates mohair subsides. The difference is like giving your sub a choice of colors for the barrel you bend her over.)

Sorry. This thread is for ranting, right?<<sheepish grin>>

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Thanatosian)

Post #: 34

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/1/2004 12:55:13 PM

iwillserveu

Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

basia, what would this world be like if the United States never existed? You would have Communism, Nazism and Radical Islam fighting to own the world. The United States has done more good for this world than any country in history. We give more aid to other countries, we save other countries asses ( France ), and we understand that evil needs to be confronted and defeated. It's not an accident that this country is the most powerful and successful country in the world. And to use that power to spread the ideas of freedom and Democracy seems to be a good use of that power. You of all people should understand that.

Actually I miss the days the British Empire controlled the waves and the biggest threat was the Canadian menace.

(Yes, I mean that sarcastically, Canadians I doubt you'd invade.)

This is a gripe for all the non-US citizens. When the "lone super power" climbs into its isolationist shell and you lack a world cop it appears you blame the Americans for not preventing the tragedy du jour. When it acts like the sole super-power (and the best one of the historical candidates, I might add) it appears to get blamed by youse guys. Which do you prefer, inaction or action? Choose one, we can't do both.

Non intervention in ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, starvation in Somalia, who knows what in Lebanon, cleaning out the anarchy of Afghanistan, and no Iraq misadventure, or the reverse? We can go home, watch Brittany Spears videos and let you call us when you are done killing yourselves, or we can do something. Which do youse guys want?

Sorry. I'm ranting on the rant board again.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 35

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/1/2004 1:37:12 PM

cheeba0228

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline

quote:

However, as the US is/are (sing. or plur.?) the single weathiest and mightiest political state, and a haven for higher learning, one would hope that it may also strive to higher standards of self-reflection, integrity, responsibility, and perhaps even learn to match its power with equal wisdom.

The reason we cannot do that is very stupid, very simple, and very thought out all at the same time. The simple fact is that the U.S. is a free country for whatever that means to you. If you want to live in a garbage can eating cockroaches each night, hating the people of the world you live in......well go ahead its a free country. Your freedom is unlimited so long as it does not impose on other peoples freedoms. or so it would seem. We cannot force people to "strive to higher standards of self-reflection, integrity, responsibility, and perhaps even learn to match its power with equal wisdom." Its everybodys God given American right to be lazy, inconsiderate, greedy, spiteful, hateful, uncaring pissant of a person. I dont like what some people have chosen to do with their freedoms yet at the same time I respect that it is their choice to make not mine. My only request to those people if you are so full of hate then please take it somewhere like the middle east where your hatred is tolerated, welcomed, and in abundance. But then again thats a request which you dont have to follow BECAUSE you live in a free country.

(in reply to basiasubrosa)

Post #: 36

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/1/2004 1:44:09 PM

SherriA

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillserveu
Actually I miss the days the British Empire controlled the waves and the biggest threat was the Canadian menace. (Yes, I mean that sarcastically, Canadians I doubt you'd invade.)

AFAIK, the only foreign country to ever occupy the White House was Canada. *shrug* So, I don't think it's accurate to say Canadians won't invade.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

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Post #: 37

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/1/2004 3:29:59 PM

Estring

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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And the smell of back bacon and beer still permeates the grounds.

(in reply to SherriA)

Post #: 38

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/2/2004 2:17:13 AM

iwillserveu

Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
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If youmean when Canada was part of Britan. Oh back then the US and Canada almost came to blows over 54'40" or fight. (It would give a land connection to Alaska.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to SherriA)

Post #: 39

RE: write and read the right rant - 8/2/2004 4:40:23 AM

basiasubrosa

Posts: 130
Joined: 6/23/2004
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There is a Chinese saying that goes: the deeper one loves, the harsher one criticizes. I sincerely apologize if people were offended by my criticism, which was certainly not intended to be harsh. I have yet to learn how to express myself accurately without the assistance of tone or face online.

That said, i applaud your sentiment, Estring, and wish that more people shared as much pride and care for their own country and its reputation.

I have dual citizenship (both by birth, not naturalization), divided my childhood equally between the US and Taiwan, and divided my love and loyalty between them as well. As much as i will fiercely defend the people of the US or Taiwan or China against external slander or injury, i will also be the first to point out the problems of their/my/our governments. I personally believe that it takes a stronger love and faith to doubt, to question, to face and try to resolve problems rather than pretend those problems do not exist. I also believe that it takes critical assessment and humility to improve and strengthen a country, in order to protect that pride which may hurt at first, but will benefit in the long run. Of course, others may choose to think otherwise.

I prefer not to engage in 'what would the world be like if this had not happened' surmises, as there are no real answers. (Perhaps the Navajo and Sioux join forces to conquer the world? Or Nigeria revives the prowess of its ancient civilization?) That the US has contributed significantly to the wellbeing of nations and people worldwide, i do not doubt (though i might question the 'done more than any in history' assertion, but that is irrelavent). Likewise i cannot overlook the brute force the US has imposed on other nations and other people. Victory over the Nazis is not a justification for, say, training and installing ruthless dictators in Latin America, Africa, SE Asia, Middle East, etc., and playing them off to the detriment of innocent civilians caught in between forces. If anything, it is a reminder of how aggressive, self-righteous power can go very, very awry, and that we, as opponents to that kind of power, ought to proceed with caution, restraint, and honest self-reflection.

Spreading freedom and democracy are noble endeavors. But there is a difference between the benign mentor who smiles gently and lends a guiding hand, and the over-eager 'leader' who crams its own legislation, corporate deals, and military bases down its followers throats. The US has done both. I laud the former with all my heart, and because of that, it hurts all the more to see the latter erode the credibility of the former.

When i am finally qualified to carry a medical satchel to refugee camps around the world, i shall be a very happy person indeed if i may represent the best intentions the US has to offer with genuine pride, not contrition.

<steps off wobbly soapbox> I hope this ramble has not offended anyone. Again, most humble apologies if it has. And, of course, i welcome corrections to any erroneous opinions.

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 40

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