RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 8:37:32 AM)

Please show me where I indicated or put forth the suggestion that Iran would nuke Russia....It was suggested by me that Russia might find a nuclear weapon in the hands of an unstable and fundamentalist Islamic state to their south troubling.
Please do not put words in my mouth ,nor decide for me what I will choose to ignore.You are niether qualified nor invited to do so...




meatcleaver -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 11:45:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u



Russia is not in the disputed provinces,they are in Georgia proper...I know Pah Details,details...as said by you in a related thread....


slvemike4u, you refuse to face the facts. Georgia made a brutal attack on Russian civilians, murdering and ethnically cleansing them, not even Bush is disputing that fact. If Canada murdered US citizens and etnically cleansed US residents in Canada, the US wouldn't worry azbout the niceties of Canada's border integrity.

The complaint by the west is Russia's over reaction, not its reaction. Even then, the west's reaction to Russia has nothing to do with wanting to protect Georgia but old fashioned power politics.




Thadius -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 12:09:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u



Russia is not in the disputed provinces,they are in Georgia proper...I know Pah Details,details...as said by you in a related thread....


slvemike4u, you refuse to face the facts. Georgia made a brutal attack on Russian civilians, murdering and ethnically cleansing them, not even Bush is disputing that fact. If Canada murdered US citizens and etnically cleansed US residents in Canada, the US wouldn't worry azbout the niceties of Canada's border integrity.

The complaint by the west is Russia's over reaction, not its reaction. Even then, the west's reaction to Russia has nothing to do with wanting to protect Georgia but old fashioned power politics.


I posted something yesterday from Polish radio, and yet you continue to make this claim.  Also, are you suggesting that the bombs that Russia dropped on the 6th, and 7th, were part of a REaction? 

Or how about this little reported item Dated Aug. 7th, about an incident that occured on the 6th. There are other reports of other incidents but this shall do for now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6934354.stm

quote:

Russia has committed an "act of aggression" against Georgia by firing a guided missile at its territory


quote:

Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Ustiashvili told the BBC the planes had flown some 70km (43 miles) over Georgia, firing the "modern and powerful" rocket, which weighed about a ton.
Mr Ustiashvhili said the jets flew from a Russian base in the North Caucasus before firing the missile, which landed just metres from a house. Local resident Ilia Psuturi told Reuters news agency: "I was sitting in my garden... when I saw a plane in the sky. "I then saw smoke rising from the ground up to the sky and only then did I hear the explosion. The plane then turned around," he said.

quote:

But a Russian defence analyst, Alexander Golts, said that without objective, hard information on the incident, it was impossible to lay the blame on either Russian or Georgian aircraft. "While no one can say for sure whether it was a fuel tank or a rocket or a bomb which fell, I fail to see why a Russian plane would bomb territory close to South Ossetia," he told the BBC News website.


Need more?




popeye1250 -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 12:58:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u



Russia is not in the disputed provinces,they are in Georgia proper...I know Pah Details,details...as said by you in a related thread....


slvemike4u, you refuse to face the facts. Georgia made a brutal attack on Russian civilians, murdering and ethnically cleansing them, not even Bush is disputing that fact. If Canada murdered US citizens and etnically cleansed US residents in Canada, the US wouldn't worry azbout the niceties of Canada's border integrity.

The complaint by the west is Russia's over reaction, not its reaction. Even then, the west's reaction to Russia has nothing to do with wanting to protect Georgia but old fashioned power politics.


LOL, I love that Clinton era slogan, "ethnic cleansing!"
"Ok, all you Polish people over there, no more galumpkes for you!"
"We're going to turn you into Czecks now!"
Who TF came up with that saying anyway? lol
Does anyone know?
Is that like "building a bridge to the twenty first century?"
And just HOW does one "build a bridge to the twenty first century?"
Please explain that one to me!
We (the U.S.) need to get out of NATO and the "U.N."
Since we're paying for most of it NATO will collapse if we get out of it.
Also, we don't need to be building $Billion Dollar Monstrosity "Embasseys" in foreign countries!
We need to be CLOSING Embasseys not opening more!




RealityLicks -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 4:23:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Need more?


In this instance, yes. You've cut from this report the part that shows the expert is actually casting doubt on the claim that Russia fired a lone missile near South Ossetia.  After all, why would they do that? 

The next day, as we all know, Georgian jets are in the air bombing South Ossetia indiscriminately. 

It's either sad that you've deliberately tried to alter the meaning of the report, or worrying that you can't interpret one reliably. 




Thadius -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 4:37:11 PM)

From another report on the 8th...

quote:

 
 http://www.polskieradio.pl/zagranica/news/artykul88818.html 

Joanna Najfeld reports
Georgian Foreign Affairs Ministry said Friday morning that two Russian bombs fell in the vicinity of a police building in the Georgian town Kareli, close to the border with the separatist South Ossetia. The third bomb fell on the town Gori. According to the spokesman of Georgian Interior Ministry, there are many casualties.

Maja Kovaliowa from the Georgian capital says the residents can feel the tension: 'Those Georgian villages on the border with Ossetia were bombarded yesterday and the day before yesterday by separatists. The people there are very worried, because houses have been destroyed and there are casualties. They say they want peace, not another war.'
 
The Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili accused Russia of conducting a large scale military operation against Georgia. Saakashvili called on Moscow to stop bombarding Georgian cities immediately. He announced a full military mobilization in the country and is also quoted as saying that the majority of South Ossetia has been liberated and is under the Georgian control.

..............

The conflict between Georgia and Ossetia has been escalating for months and the present situation is partly a result of American - Russia relations concerning missile defense and other international issues, says Sebastian Zawadzki of the Institute of Political Studies at Polish Academy of Sciences: 'Not only Georgia has beed adding to the pressure between the countries. Russia and Ossetia have been accusing Georgia of repeated aggression against Ossetian and Abhasian towns. Just to mention the latest propaganda campaign of moving fifteen hundred women and children from South to North Ossetia. That was a publicity stunt, meant to picture Georgia as an aggressor. The logistics were all prepared beforehand by the Russian side.'



Just sayin,
Thadius




meatcleaver -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 4:51:50 PM)

What you are linking is pure propaganda, most European politicians that condemn Russia's over reaction accept Russia had the right to react to defend its citizens and that Georgia did make an assault on South Ossetia that killed hundreds of Russians. The Polish government isn't taken that seriously by other European governments, it has even accused Germany of being aggressive and Germany is bank rolling the Poles. I accept that the British government will behave like it thinks the US wants it to behave.




RealityLicks -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 4:55:39 PM)

Are you serious? More accusations instead of answering the criticism of your last post?  Let's wait until the independent observers report, they understand the concept of credibility.

(Btw, polskie radio doesn't have the best reputation for impartiality.  Membership of the governing body is pretty much on party political lines and the legacy of the Kaczinski brothers does show itself in news broadcasts taking a nationalist and anti-Russian line.  To be fair, this may be partially due to the fact its listeners are older, unlike the commercial stations'.)




meatcleaver -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 4:57:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

(Btw, polskie radio doesn't have the best reputation for impartiality.  Membership of the governing body is pretty much on party political lines and the legacy of the Kaczinski brothers does show itself in news broadcasts taking a nationalist and anti-Russian line.  To be fair, this may be partially due to the fact its listeners are older, unlike the commercial stations'.)


It doesn't even have a reputation!




Thadius -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 4:59:34 PM)

How about providing links to your unbiased reports... they should be eye opening for those of us that are subject to so much propaganda.




RealityLicks -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 5:02:55 PM)

How about not cutting out parts of the BBC reports you quoted to try and make them support your argument when they don't? 




Thadius -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 5:04:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

How about not cutting out parts of the BBC reports you quoted to try and make them support your argument when they don't? 


Well like I asked, share some of your unbiased reports.... I am more than willing to read and if I am wrong I will say so.  Seems pretty simple to me.

Balls in your court.




Politesub53 -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 5:10:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I posted something yesterday from Polish radio, and yet you continue to make this claim.  Also, are you suggesting that the bombs that Russia dropped on the 6th, and 7th, were part of a REaction? 

Or how about this little reported item Dated Aug. 7th, about an incident that occured on the 6th. There are other reports of other incidents but this shall do for now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6934354.stm

Need more?


Thadius, your link is from a report in 2007 !




Thadius -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 5:20:20 PM)

Thanks polite, missed that.  So it seems this is becoming an annual thing?

My apologies for misrepresenting it as this month.




RealityLicks -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 5:33:41 PM)

quote:


But critics say that, despite having spent over $100bn (£54bn), the Pentagon still has not proved the system can work in realistic conditions.
Independent scientific bodies in the US have said that tests of the system's intercept capabilities have been highly scripted, with the defence being given detailed information about the attack beforehand.



quote:


The Czech government will need the support of some opposition parties to see the measure through. Meanwhile, there is significant public resistance to the plan, with 100,000 people signing a petition calling for a referendum on the issue. Opinion polls indicate that about two-thirds of Czechs do not want the project to go ahead.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6720153.stm


Naturally, you'll draw your own conclusions but the way I see it, constant fears and anxieties are thrown at publics the world over so that they will sanction a perpetual arms race.  Whatever happened to Mutually Assured Destruction?
Why install missiles to thwart a putative (or imaginary) threat that could be resolved through diplomacy?




slvemike4u -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 5:49:47 PM)

So keeping the peace in Europe for what, the first time in that continent's history for 60 years running ,and you are complaining about the sucesfull strategy of MAD...sheesh what chutzpah




RealityLicks -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 5:56:21 PM)

You got that from my post? 

OK, see you later. [8|]




slvemike4u -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 6:06:19 PM)

So I misread post #54 in which you implied a derogatory view of the highly successful Cold War strategy of Mutual Assured Destruction.If so I apologise,but I have been doing interpretive reading for quite a while now...and that is how I read it...




caitlyn -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/20/2008 9:27:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval 
And remember this is not a thread about WW2!


Does this mean World War One is still on the plate? [;)] 




Vendaval -> RE: NATO and Russia, latest news (8/21/2008 1:13:38 AM)

That would be a, "NO!"
 
Good to see you posting again, caitlyn.   [:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval 
And remember this is not a thread about WW2!


Does this mean World War One is still on the plate? [;)] 




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