RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (Full Version)

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Lashra -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (9/2/2008 5:25:36 AM)

From what I understand the guidelines they follow are, they will only put you away IF they currently consider you a danger to yourself or others. This is only done as a last resort to protect the person or others from harm. Most Therapists would not do this on a whim so unless your friend is really showing signs of seriousness about ending his life, Id' say no they would not commit him.

If he is having serious issues there are therapists out there that do take clients at a lesser cost just so they receive the treatment they need. It sounds like he really needs the help.

~Lashra



aravain -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (9/8/2008 8:50:14 PM)

In response to the original post:

Hmm

It's sort of a weird dynamic.

Doctors can ONLY have you committed if they truly believe that you are a danger to yourself or others. If your friend says or does anything that makes the doctor worried for his life or another's life... then, yeah, they can have him committed.

However...

if your friend is asked the question 'Can you confidently promise that you will not attempt suicide/homicide' or some derivative by the therapist, and he cannot in good faith answer 'yes' then... well, yeah, they'll probably commit him.

That said... there ARE worse things than being committed.



YourhandMyAss -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (9/14/2008 11:06:16 AM)

Well, that really depends on how you look at it.

If he was commited, he could loose his job, and finding a new job, when you lost your old one under such less than stellar reasons, could take a really long time. which means no money, which means rents not being payed, which means it's eviction time, which means you're homeless and you've lost all your possessions.  And being homeless would make the suicidal thoughts worse, may even drive someone to commit suicide not just think about it. He's been homeless before and he says he'll kill himself before he goes back to being homeless. then you've got busy body family members who'll never let you forget you got yourself commited, they'd always be saying see, I told you so, and blah blah blah. Of course they are easily told to go fuck off.

quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain


That said... there ARE worse things than being committed.




aravain -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (9/14/2008 9:51:56 PM)

Hmmm... if I understand current labor laws in most states correctly...

they can't fire you for going to the hospital unless you're there for an inordinate amount of time (like, say, a month or longer). Unless someone being committed is *very* dangerous, however, and continues to remain dangerous or non-compliant during treatment in the hospital they'll usually get out within a week or two.

I'll CM you some personal info so that you can know where I've gotten this from :)



DavanKael -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (9/24/2008 7:02:56 PM)

Howdy, I have only read the first post, so pardon if any of this is redundant. 
I'm a licensed counselor.  That being said, I don't like to speak in psychobabble unless I'm having fun with that particular form of verbal masturbation for professional reasons or have some point of personal amusement, so here goes in real-world terms:
It's pretty freakin' hard, in this day and age, to get someone hospitalized against their will.  There needs to be a clear intent to harm self or others.  This is usually fleshed out by establishing plan, intent, means, etc.  Saying "I want to kill myself" is ALOT different from "I have a loaded shotgun and am about to pull a Kurt Cobain as soon as I get home."  Statement 1, we talk more.  Statement 2, I've gotta make some calls.  Same idea with homicidality.  Even if one gets toted off to the hospital (And, scenario 2 doesn't guarantee that, by the way), it's likely to be a maximum of 72 hours if it's against their will, especially if they have poor or no insurance unless they're really, really foaming at the mouth.  I've seen kids actively fire-setting in the home sent home from the ER because they "weren't an imminent danger".  I've seen poeple suicidally drunk denied admission.  You're a lot more likely to be turned away when you are in need than locked up against your will.  Managed health care and a sucky economy pretty much makes sure of that. 
There are intricacies in terms of the laws on abuse (Ie: past sexual abuse by someone else, if they're being abused, if they are abusing someone or, in some cases, have abused someone), court subpoenas, etc. but that's a different thing entirely in terms of involving others. 
Counselors really do take seriously the trust our clients put in us.  It's important.  Part of that trust, is fleshing out when a person needs to be hospitalized on rare occasions.  That's a rarity.  I don't like puttingpeople in the hospital, especially kids.  It's not something that I, or most of the colleagues with whom I have dialogued, relish for any number of reasons.  It's a strictly out of necessity sort of thing and it takes a lot of work to make it happen. 
Hope this helps.  Have a good night, all.  :> 
  Davan



MistressSassy66 -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (9/26/2008 3:46:56 PM)

One more voice... IF the person says they are comtemplating it
at that point,the therapist might ask if you* have a plan on
what you would do to kill yourself.Having a plan is more than likely
going to get their attention.If your not currently suicidal the therapist should
provide you with a bright orange card with the number for a hotline incase
you get feeling that way.

It is NOT a bad thing to "go away" for awhile. For a lot of people
it helps them get a handle on their life.It can be a chance to get
on meds if needed or even detox from substance abuse.

They can not lock you up for a thought you had at age 13
if your an adult now.Though they should reccommend if you still
have those feelings to get help.
I hope every thing works out for them.

*you = general term 



talktomeplease -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sess (2/13/2009 7:26:48 PM)

Hmmm. what is a licensed "counselor" exactly?  In my state there is no such title regulated by law.  Are you an LCSW?  Do you have your PsyD?  What?

My Bachelor's is in psych, and I worked as a residential counselor for years--notice the word "counselor", nothing regulated about it, and I just had a BA.

Anyway, what you are saying directly contradicts my experience.  For example, I had a schizophrenic client who refused to take her meds one evening.  My supervisor called the cops, the cops came and got her, took her to the local ER, and from there she was committed. We never saw her again.  She never directly threatened suicide, or to harm another, although she was creepy and difficult. 

I saw this type of thing more than once.  People in authority can get someone committed very easily.  They can also manufacture "evidence" if need be.



angelikaJ -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sess (2/13/2009 8:13:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: talktomeplease

Hmmm. what is a licensed "counselor" exactly?  In my state there is no such title regulated by law.  Are you an LCSW?  Do you have your PsyD?  What?

My Bachelor's is in psych, and I worked as a residential counselor for years--notice the word "counselor", nothing regulated about it, and I just had a BA.

Anyway, what you are saying directly contradicts my experience.  For example, I had a schizophrenic client who refused to take her meds one evening.  My supervisor called the cops, the cops came and got her, took her to the local ER, and from there she was committed. We never saw her again.  She never directly threatened suicide, or to harm another, although she was creepy and difficult. 

I saw this type of thing more than once.  People in authority can get someone committed very easily.  They can also manufacture "evidence" if need be.



I have worked in the same field, in the same capacity... and what went on in your house are the kinds of things that give the rest of us a bad name.
(and, in at least some states, illegal)
By the way, LMHC is a very valid title:

"LPC or LCPC, LMHC, DAC, MFCC
Licensed professional counselor or licensed mental health counselor. A licensing qualification is granted to those who have advanced training, a graduate academic degree, clinical work experience and have passed a state-certified licensing examination. (American Counseling Association)"

http://www.psychologytoday.com/pto/credentials.html



talktomeplease -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sess (2/13/2009 8:16:32 PM)

The most relevant part of your post is the phrase "at least in some states".

Many people are posting "facts" with authority when in fact the law varies from state to state.

Who exactly said LMHC was not a valid title?



angelikaJ -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sess (2/13/2009 8:44:21 PM)

Actually, you inferred it... but contrary to what you posted: "In my state there is no such title regulated by law." in California there are titles regulated by law.

In order to become a "licensed counselor" or therapist you have to pass a licensing exam as well as completing a certain number of credit hours.
Simply getting a BA is not enough.

I am pretty certain that abusing the rights of the mentally ill is illegal in your state as well.


*hijack over*



came4U -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sess (2/13/2009 10:06:00 PM)

Yes, If a person was on prescribed medication BECAUSE of previous suicidal tendencies and refused those meds, yes, they can be hospitalized.  Especially if they have a history of rebounding into depressive states once the meds are gone from the bloodstream.  All depends on their specific mental health history.

and

No, Someone thinking about or discussing suicide is not 'commitment' worthy unless that person gives direct comment of a definate and oncoming plan (within hours, days, weeks).  The therapist themselves are at risk of a suit if they allow that person to leave their office if these remarks are within protocol of a suicide-likely candidate.

The best one can do in a case like this is to suggest out-patient emergency care or a short-term, yet scheduled self-admittance to a mental health facility. 






gemseekstreasure -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (2/16/2009 11:00:29 AM)

i am sorry my screen flickered, Thereore a double entry. 



gemseekstreasure -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (2/16/2009 11:05:27 AM)

If a person is endanger to themself or others (verbal or actions) at the time (24-48 hrs) Yes.  Otherwise No.  Normally they do outpatient for past to see if they are at present.



JohnWarren -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (2/16/2009 11:20:25 AM)

Depends on local laws, but the answer is generally yes.  In Massachusetts, it's called "Section 12" and the situation is particularly bad since you can be involuntarily committed by any medical person or police officer on suspicion itself for up to two weeks. 

To make this worse, the committing person is shielded by law from being sued even if you can prove they had no reasonable cause for the accusation.  This has led to a "cottage industry" among some psychologists, a few of whom make 90 percent of the commitments in the state.  You see, if you have insurance, it will pay for the hospital stay. 

Mental hospitals have been hit hard by new drugs and the institutionalization movement.  Long term commitments (their previous bread and butter) have almost vanished.  This has led to hefty "finders fees" to those who can provide folks who can make up the shortfall through insurance.

As Deep Throat put it, "follow the money."



JohnWarren -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (2/16/2009 11:28:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain


That said... there ARE worse things than being committed.



Of course, your employer may find out from your insurance company and fire you.  You'll never have a security clearance so entire careers are out the window.  You'll have to answer "yes" to "have you ever been in a mental institution."  This, of course, will be used if you are ever suspected of a crime or are testifying in a civil or criminal case (jurors don't tend to believe "nut cases.")  You can forget about political office.

It's hardly (as one shrink dismissed false commitment) "Really, a no-lose situation."

Privacy?  This ain't 1850.  Regardless of laws, people will do what they can do, particularly where money is concerned.



angelikaJ -> RE: Can theapists commit you to a mental hospital for admiting past suicide attempts in therapy sessions (2/16/2009 12:07:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Depends on local laws, but the answer is generally yes.  In Massachusetts, it's called "Section 12" and the situation is particularly bad since you can be involuntarily committed by any medical person or police officer on suspicion itself for up to two weeks. 

To make this worse, the committing person is shielded by law from being sued even if you can prove they had no reasonable cause for the accusation.  This has led to a "cottage industry" among some psychologists, a few of whom make 90 percent of the commitments in the state.  You see, if you have insurance, it will pay for the hospital stay. 

Mental hospitals have been hit hard by new drugs and the institutionalization movement.  Long term commitments (their previous bread and butter) have almost vanished.  This has led to hefty "finders fees" to those who can provide folks who can make up the shortfall through insurance.

As Deep Throat put it, "follow the money."


Actually, John, in MA people can only be held for a maximum of 3 days unless reason is shown that they need further committment for treatment... neccesitated by them being a risk of harm to self or others.
(That would require a court hearing.)

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/123-12.htm 




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