RE: Helping them/us feel submissive

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LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/26/2008 5:54:06 PM)
Fuzzies or tingles really is a great way to put it. It does always amaze me how forgetful everyone seems to be! I don't do the "reminding" thing because I think it sets up a bad cycle of sucking energy from one source to the other. But I DO encourage "leash yanking." I think an occasional extra spark from someone is a great sign of a relationship that is still thriving and running well. And it's not taking power away- the sub wants something, sub asks for something and the dom decides to do it or not. Just because the dom says "Hey, that's a good idea. let's go for that" does not mean the poor widdle dom is suddenly a doormat.

Huntertn -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/26/2008 7:28:17 PM)
I agree up to a point with the girls..However..I do think there are subs out there that act up just to get that reminder from their Doms. Like "he's not smacked me today:He don't love me anymore" kind of thing.

KnightofMists -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/26/2008 8:08:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThistleDown How do you (dommly types) help your sub be or feel submissive without making him/her feel like you're taking the power away (as opposed to a consensual exchange)? I don't.... The intentions of my choices are not to cause my girls to feel submissive. Frankly.. I am not really sure what feeling submissive is. Feeling indicate an emotion... I do not see submission as an emotion... though I am sure there are many emotions that can be generated in the acts of submission.... but those emotions can be positive, negative and even indifference. Submission to me is obeying the will of another. A submissive personality is just someone that can find happiness and fullfillment by obeying the will of another. Now.. just because one is obeying the will of another doesn't make them a submissive personality, nor does it mean a submissive personality will find happiness and fullfillment in obeying the will of any person.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/27/2008 7:45:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Fuzzies or tingles really is a great way to put it. It does always amaze me how forgetful everyone seems to be! I don't do the "reminding" thing because I think it sets up a bad cycle of sucking energy from one source to the other. But I DO encourage "leash yanking." I think an occasional extra spark from someone is a great sign of a relationship that is still thriving and running well. And it's not taking power away- the sub wants something, sub asks for something and the dom decides to do it or not. Just because the dom says "Hey, that's a good idea. let's go for that" does not mean the poor widdle dom is suddenly a doormat. Nicely said, LA. I doubt that anyone forgets they are submissive...or dominant for that matter. But as BRnaughtyangel noted, there are times when a person needs to be reminded by another that they are submissive/dominant TO that other.

leadership527 -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/27/2008 10:52:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark This is Darcy It strikes me that those dominants that feel the need to remind their submissives of their place and what they are perhaps aren't doing it so much to remind the submissives, as to reassure themselves that they are, as softness said, 'bigger and scarier'. I know what I am, *the.dark.* knows what she is, and netiher of us need to remind or be reminded any more than we need reminding to breathe.... sighs One of my great regrets on these boards is that those community members who have proven experience AND their heads screwed on quite straight frequently forget completely that the entire world is not as advanced as they are. For the record, I have absolutely no need to dom my wife at all. Therefor, I have absolutely no reason to remind her that I am bigger. And given my disney-dom mindset, the idea that I would want to be scary to her is... well.. implausible. Is it really such a stretch to think that two people who are relatively new to these roles need to be reminded of them? I wasn't born a dom and she wasn't born a sub. Those are roles that we are slowly settling into that play well against a few personality traits we both share. But still, it's a learning experience to go from husband wife to master slave.

NeedingMore220 -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/27/2008 3:03:49 PM)
I see this as somewhere between Darcy and leadership. I do believe that I was born submissive, and I am just currently starting what I hope will be a LTR. I haven't had a D/s relationship yet that was longer than seven months. So ... when in a new relationship, positive reinforcement helps keep me on track. I think a 'reminder of my submission' is really just wanting some attention to focus as the relationship takes hold. A hair tug, a tweak ... something done which would be outside of a vanilla relationship would make me smile and wanna curl up at his feet. It gives me the warm fuzzies. Just the same as a kiss and a hug would do for me in a vanilla relationship.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/27/2008 4:55:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Is it really such a stretch to think that two people who are relatively new to these roles need to be reminded of them? I wasn't born a dom and she wasn't born a sub. Those are roles that we are slowly settling into that play well against a few personality traits we both share. But still, it's a learning experience to go from husband wife to master slave. I think that's great that you are aware and accepting of that and work within that framework. But as I said before, the "reminding her of her place" concept TENDS TO lead to a energy sucking insecurity cycle. Other methods tend to be better in the long term of making everyone more secure and together. Would you rather us more experienced types just forgot about everyone else? I think it's a good sign that we think everyone can have the capacity to live as fulfilled.

TreasureKY -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/27/2008 7:00:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Is it really such a stretch to think that two people who are relatively new to these roles need to be reminded of them? I don't think it's a stretch, but, as LA points out... quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross ... the "reminding her of her place" concept TENDS TO lead to a energy sucking insecurity cycle. Other methods tend to be better in the long term of making everyone more secure and together. Now, I'm not sure this is precisely what she means, but my guess is the danger would be as follows: Being new to D/s, you decide to use a "special" greeting in the morning as a little reminder to her of her role as your submissive. You pick the phrase, "good morning, my little one". It's a good choice... it sets the tone for the day, is a subtle reminder of your chosen dynamic, and generally gives her the good, warm fuzzies. This works very well for a few weeks, but then, what happens when you start forgetting and just say, "good morning"? Or how about when you unthinkingly shorten it to just, "good morning, little one", leaving out the all important and yummy word "my"? Perhaps your wife won't think anything of it, but generally when people develop dependencies on something, if it changes or becomes unreliable, they start to wonder why and it can create insecurities. This isn't to say that you can't have rituals and stick to them, but to rely upon them to support the structure of your relationship is an iffy proposition. If the support shows any instability, it tends to create instability in the relationship, as well.

KnightofMists -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/28/2008 6:43:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Is it really such a stretch to think that two people who are relatively new to these roles need to be reminded of them? I wasn't born a dom and she wasn't born a sub. Those are roles that we are slowly settling into that play well against a few personality traits we both share. But still, it's a learning experience to go from husband wife to master slave. I wasn't born a Dom or Master either... and my girls wasn't born as a Slave. I was born as me... and through life experience I evolved into who I am... In fact.. I am always Me... from the moment I was born... and Me is always changing. Secondly... you simple to miss the subtle point that some of the more experience screwedup heads have been saying. We are not trying to live up to a role.. in fact... it's not a Role... it just being comfortable with who you are .. and being it. Of most of the individuals on the forums and most you see in public.. I have alot of protocals... but the protocals are NOT about reminding who we are.. that to me is a the wrong motivation for having the protocal. What Treasure stated plays a big part on why I don't do protocals to remind us who we are..."generally when people develop dependencies on something, if it changes or becomes unreliable, they start to wonder why and it can create insecurities." Actually.. doing protocals and other such behaviors is not much different than those that live in mainstream life.... if you have what I think is a constructive motivation for doing them. and that motivation... to me it's ... because we Enjoy it! no big.. oh it fullfills and other such crap... we just enjoy it. Just like the person that gets up in the morning... goes and sits at the table reading his paper every morning and has a coffee... or the person that goes to that puts on their cloths the same way every day... or the person that brushes their hair the same way.... alot of times.. we stop thinking about these behaviors... we just do them... they are comfortable to us... they actually become habits..... People in the lifestyle can have alot of different habits and behaviors as compared to the people in the mainstream world... but that doesn't make them in diffierent roles... it just means they have different tastes... different things that they enjoy. I enjoy it when My girls address me as "my lord"... Hell.... they have been doing it for so long.... I sometimes wonder if I hear it all the time. I enjoy the way they serve me a glass of water... I enjoy the way they walk beside me... I enjoy the way they dress.... I enjoy the way they cook supper... I enjoy the way they clean the house... I enjoy alot of things.... and as I go along in life... You know what... I see some things that I just might enjoy and so will the girls... so I adopt it. Now..... I think it is rare that someone doesn't come into the lifestyle and look at things as roles... or looks to "do things to remind ourselves of who we" For some.. they never shake that... for others it doesn't last long... Just BE You.... do the things that you enjoy... and hell with the rest! One of the protocals my girls do.. is they never say..."Your Welcome" after a thank you.... It's always.... "my pleasure". It always felt off for my girls to say..."your welcome" hell.. I have found that I say.. My pleasure as well. Now one can look at it deeply and say.. oh that keeps the girls in their place.. keeps them focused on enjoying doing service for others... well... hell why am I saying it then.... I am hardly submissive.... In the end... I enjoy it... I like what it communicates. We do it. And a few others have taken it up too because they see that is what we do.... and other things they have disgarded.

KnightofMists -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/28/2008 7:18:57 AM)
a few more thoughts to add... When a person is doing things that they enjoy and like.. it will often just become habit. Now.. often if they are doing these things because they want to feel their place etc.... well as the things become habit... they start to feel a lost of their place etc. it's because so many of the things they where doing "That they Enjoyed" was about doing it to feel their place.. but when they become habit.. you stop having to think about them... they are just happening.. and because the effort to do them is no longer expended... a person stops gaining the value of "Feeling their Place".... Now... both Alandra and Kyra went through this.. they had a mindset that even thou they enjoyed what I wanted... they had a motivation that it made them 'feel submissive" or had them in their place.... so as things become a habit... I got the " I don't feel submissive line"... well... I told both of them.. when they each went through this.... make me a list of all the things you do that I instructed you to do.. that you perceive as lifestyle related... well after about 2-3 pages... they got the point without me having to tell them. Submission is what you DO! What they were missing... was not "feeling submissive" since I don't believe that exists... they missed the emotions they felt as they took on the learning the challenges to take on new behaviors.... It's pretty exciting these new things they do...but.. you can't always do new things... They are just not that many things out their that will appeal to you at a given moment. maybe tomorrow.. maybe not. Maybe today you are doing something that tomorrow you going to change... it happens. It is important to appreciate that things that become habit are still being done.. They don't lose value just because you don't have to put the effort in to do them that you once did. However, effort needs to be expended.... so find ways to expend their effort... boredom can be rather destructive in a relationship.

leadership527 -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/28/2008 8:19:49 AM)
I don't know that I dsiagree with anything you've said Knight. When I use the word "role" here, it's not as in "roleplaying". I'm using it along the lines of role based behavioral dynamics which means it applies to everything... it's a way of viewing human behaviors that I believe to be more accurate than the rather simplistic "I'm a dominant, I'm a submissive" type thinking. I don't view dominance as a personality trait. I view it as a behavior which gets deployed in certain roles I occupy in my life when that particular behavior will be effective at achieving my goals. Ditto with my wife's submission. I think that I have certain personality traits which facilitate me behaving in a dominant fashion (and other traits which facilitate working in a submissive fashion when that is more likely to achieve success). Calling me a "dominant" is like calling me a "father". Sure, it's accurate, but it only captures one slice of who I am and the behaviors I employ as a father are different than those I employ as a master. All of that, however, does not mean that I am only play-acting at being a father... or a master.

KnightofMists -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/28/2008 11:34:49 AM)
I was not seeing role as "Role-Play"... I saw it as very much as how you describe it. Secondly... besides... Dominance and Submission being the actions that people take.. it can very much be an aspect of a person's personality. But... just because a person has a dominant or submissive personality doesn't mean they don't have a variety of other aspects to their personality. There is alot of things that goes into a person's personality... their dominant or submissive traits however are often only a small part of the recipe. As far as Dominant or Submissive behaviors? This is rather tricky... since what you might see as Dominant behavior.. I may see with indifference or even distaste. Your pretty smart... and i doubt that you see specific behaviors as univerally Dominant or Universally as submissive... if you do.. then I guess I misjudged your intelligence. There are sets of behaviorst that do it for us as individuals... hopefully.. it also does it for your partner as well. I think that is the big challenge for many relationships that evolve into the D/s lifestyle. Finding those behaviors that does for each... sends the right message that they want to see from the behaviors. However... my point early.. we can't make it about getting the right behaviors to achieve that message... it rather pointless if we don't enjoy it! For example... My girls are not allowed to leave my presences without permission. ... I enjoy this for a variety of reasons it also happens to be a behavior that convey Dominance over my girls. But.. I am not doing it be dominant over them... I am doing it because I like it. A Master I knew some time ago... required his girls to come or call him and ask permission to go to the bathroom. Again.. I see the behavior as being Dominant over his girls.... BUT... I didn't like it... I had all sorts of issues with the idea of doing that kind of behavior. I saw no enjoyment ... and it was pointless that I saw it as a Dominant Behavior. I will say again.. Dominant behaviors... Submissive behaviors.. whatever they are.. is pointless.. and even destructive to oneself and/or the relationship if there is not some enjoyment being achieved within the relationship. That is not to say that everyone has to have intrinsic enjoyment from the act itself... some will get extrinsic enjoyment (we see alot this from submissive that do things because their Dominant loves it). I however.. if there isn't some instrinsic enjoyments.. I would be very concern that the relationship is going to evolve into a co-dependency.

leadership527 -> RE: Helping them/us feel submissive (8/28/2008 12:05:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists I will say again.. Dominant behaviors... Submissive behaviors.. whatever they are.. is pointless.. and even destructive to oneself and/or the relationship if there is not some enjoyment being achieved within the relationship. That is not to say that everyone has to have intrinsic enjoyment from the act itself... some will get extrinsic enjoyment (we see alot this from submissive that do things because their Dominant loves it). I however.. if there isn't some instrinsic enjoyments.. I would be very concern that the relationship is going to evolve into a co-dependency. nods THAT I get completely. In short, you should do stuff for a reason, not just "because". And that reason ought to benefit the goals of the participants (whatever they are). Yeah, i completely agree. So aside from a bit of struggling over word choice, I think you are I are in complete agreement. In fact, having now read your profile statement, I feel like it's somethign I might've written. Somehow, I feel like I'm missing something here somehow. You clearly intended to communicate something to me in your original post. But at this point, I feel like we are in total agreement and always have been barring a symantics squabble. Oh yeah, and you were correct... I 'r smart.

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