Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a niche?

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Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a niche? - 8/26/2008 5:26:29 PM

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I have always liked the idea of having two male subs together to tie each other up for my amusement - or maybe wrestle, etc. They don't even have to kiss, be intimate, suck each other's cock, etc. But when I bring this up to straight guys, you would be surprised how many say "no way." I've realized it's actually easier to find a straight male sub to suck a man's cock than it is to participate in some non-sexual bondage games.

I've found this to be true in real life (maybe not enough alcohol is present. Wait, safety police, this is for casual, clothed, joking-around bondage, not full blown scenes, and not huge amounts of booze either), and on the net. For example, if I have a sub in Somecity, Utah and another sub in NearSomecity, Utah, for some reason, while both profess intensely their desire to engage in lots of interesting bondage for me, and maybe one or both is interest in a forced bi scenario, the prospect of them just getting together for coffee and then tying each other up for me is off the table. Ahh, shucks!

So why is it that het male subs are afraid of a little NON SEXUAL mutual bondage IF a woman is present and getting off on it?

I had this scenario once in my life back when I was in college. I had a threesome of sorts with two guys - they were best friends. I would love to recreate that, and at the time, I guess I thought it wasn't a big deal. Now I realize it was a rare thing. I should have taken pictures.

Akasha

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RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/26/2008 8:06:46 PM

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With all your fans/experience/etc. you don't meet any bi guys? For realz?

Hell, I know a few guys who aren't attracted to men, but have "bondage buddies" just because they can't afford or refuse to go to a pro. Seems like guys willing to fulfill a Domme's fantasy in that manner would be a dime a dozen.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/26/2008 9:09:30 PM

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Great minds think alike!

I recently sat in on a workshop that involved head bondage: ever since then, I'm consumed by the idea of binding two people together by their heads and arms. Not only would it be fun, something about the symmetry makes me excited. (I'm weird that way... I've been known to insist upon my bondage having a specific number of knots, or always hitting someone an odd number of times. OCD BDSM!)

I don't think it should be too hard to find a couple of guys who are bi-curious: they always seem to find me!

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RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/26/2008 9:13:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Coupleofwhats

Great minds think alike!

I recently sat in on a workshop that involved head bondage: ever since then, I'm consumed by the idea of binding two people together by their heads and arms. Not only would it be fun, something about the symmetry makes me excited. (I'm weird that way... I've been known to insist upon my bondage having a specific number of knots, or always hitting someone an odd number of times. OCD BDSM!)

I don't think it should be too hard to find a couple of guys who are bi-curious: they always seem to find me!

In my experience, the bi-curious guys are more interested in oral sex/cuckolding. Not so much anything like kissing or bondage. I'll keep looking tho.

Akasha

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RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 2:47:55 AM

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And that is why I used to watch pro-wrestling ... 2 guys rolling around on a mat together for my entertainment ... lol

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RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 3:50:54 AM

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That's why I watch Jerry Springer!

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RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 4:59:32 AM

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You don't have to be bi to do male bondage. I have male friends who love to be bound. We do indoor, outdoor, kidnap scenes. I find that men are more into bondage than women are.

(in reply to MsStarlett)

RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 5:13:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I have always liked the idea of having two male subs together to tie each other up for my amusement - or maybe wrestle, etc. They don't even have to kiss, be intimate, suck each other's cock, etc. But when I bring this up to straight guys, you would be surprised how many say "no way." I've realized it's actually easier to find a straight male sub to suck a man's cock than it is to participate in some non-sexual bondage games.

I've found this to be true in real life (maybe not enough alcohol is present. Wait, safety police, this is for casual, clothed, joking-around bondage, not full blown scenes, and not huge amounts of booze either), and on the net. For example, if I have a sub in Somecity, Utah and another sub in NearSomecity, Utah, for some reason, while both profess intensely their desire to engage in lots of interesting bondage for me, and maybe one or both is interest in a forced bi scenario, the prospect of them just getting together for coffee and then tying each other up for me is off the table. Ahh, shucks!

So why is it that het male subs are afraid of a little NON SEXUAL mutual bondage IF a woman is present and getting off on it?

I had this scenario once in my life back when I was in college. I had a threesome of sorts with two guys - they were best friends. I would love to recreate that, and at the time, I guess I thought it wasn't a big deal. Now I realize it was a rare thing. I should have taken pictures.

Akasha

It's a shame I'm not closer to you. I would definitely be game for that.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 5:46:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes
And that is why I used to watch pro-wrestling ... 2 guys rolling around on a mat together for my entertainment ... lol

Ah, you should check out competitive Greco-Roman wrestling instead. Less posturing and running back and forth, much more grabbing each other tightly and rolling around on the ground. I don't know why they don't seem to have women's events- as a spectator sport, it would certainly beat all hell out of baseball.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 6:16:41 AM

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I do it all the time..kinda...but I prefer to do my own tying up!! I think the problem you may have is they want YOU to tie them up together....not one another. If someone is submissive...and enjoys bondage...the preferred method (and I know this isn't universally true as I've met some great self-bondage experts) is for a top/dominant to bind them. The thrill comes from being helpless for that person. Even though I completely get where you would get off on watching this...there is also one technical problem...who ties up the second one when the first one is already tied up?

This weekend I have this great bondage scene....I am having a submissive male house guest and I hope to have he and my husband tied up together for a good part of the weekend...to make them work together as a team. It can be really casual at first...just their ankles connected....or wrist. But I also have this scene planned....

sub #1 will have his hands tied behind his back...rope through his legs and attached to the balls of sub #2.

sub #2 will have his hands tied behind his back...rope through his legs and attached to the balls of sub #1.

I will tell them the first one to get out of the bondage can do XYZ to me...and sit back and enjoy them struggling to get out...while causing discomfort to their competitor.

I think this could also be a really fun game at a fem domme party...you could tie up a bunch of guys like this in a big circle..and watch the hilarity!

Edited because I can't type before my first cup of coffee!

< Message edited by MsIncontrol -- 8/27/2008 6:18:44 AM >

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RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 6:30:55 AM

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Different men have different boundaries with respect to other men: intimacy, sexual contact, acts of submission, more. Bondage may carry meaning beyond simply tying a rope around somebody. Or it may be a question of finite time and not wishing to expend time to get to know to play with someone in whom one has no interest; subs are humans and they respond to this concept much like others do. How much of a connection had been established with the subs to whom this suggestion was made?

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 6:53:38 AM

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Thanks Sea. I think you touched on something I missed in my reply. Outside of the desire to be sexual with someone of the same sex...submissives aren't just puppets for us to play with. They have to also feel comfortable with all of the players in a scene.

In my scenario above, both men are friendly with one another..and while neither of them has every been in this situation..they feel comfortable enough with me respecting limits, the other man (at least on a friendly level) and were willing to play in those terms.

I can see totally where someone wouldn't want to agree to play with an anonymous third party..especially if they were going to be tied up by stranger..with no knowledge of their skill level, emotional motivations etc. Regardless of sexual orientation, physical safety and emotional security must always come first.

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RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 7:07:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncontrol
Outside of the desire to be sexual with someone of the same sex...submissives aren't just puppets for us to play with. They have to also feel comfortable with all of the players in a scene.

<snip>

In my scenario above, both men are friendly with one another..and while neither of them has every been in this situation..they feel comfortable enough with me respecting limits

Thank you for conveying more clearly the thoughts that I had behind my post.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to MsIncontrol)

RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 7:08:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

You don't have to be bi to do male bondage. I have male friends who love to be bound. We do indoor, outdoor, kidnap scenes. I find that men are more into bondage than women are.

Oh believe me, I have asked quite a few straight guys as well :)
Akasha

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RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 7:18:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncontrol

I do it all the time..kinda...but I prefer to do my own tying up!! I think the problem you may have is they want YOU to tie them up together....not one another. If someone is submissive...and enjoys bondage...the preferred method (and I know this isn't universally true as I've met some great self-bondage experts) is for a top/dominant to bind them. The thrill comes from being helpless for that person. Even though I completely get where you would get off on watching this...there is also one technical problem...who ties up the second one when the first one is already tied up?

This weekend I have this great bondage scene....I am having a submissive male house guest and I hope to have he and my husband tied up together for a good part of the weekend...to make them work together as a team. It can be really casual at first...just their ankles connected....or wrist. But I also have this scene planned....

sub #1 will have his hands tied behind his back...rope through his legs and attached to the balls of sub #2.

sub #2 will have his hands tied behind his back...rope through his legs and attached to the balls of sub #1.

I will tell them the first one to get out of the bondage can do XYZ to me...and sit back and enjoy them struggling to get out...while causing discomfort to their competitor.

I think this could also be a really fun game at a fem domme party...you could tie up a bunch of guys like this in a big circle..and watch the hilarity!

Edited because I can't type before my first cup of coffee!

Thank you! Yes, you are right, of course they want me to be there. And that's a possibility in good time. I am planning something in the Fall or Winter where I can indulge in this - but again, if I invest a lot of time and planning only to have one or both guys flake, that's disappointing. As we all know, the percentage of men that change their mind - even to meet for coffee - is high. But with several months of planning, I think I can be fairly certain.

I do understand that some men don't want to get together in any fashion with another man they do not know. However, in the course of getting emotionally intimate, having deep conversations, bonding, there's a level of trust that develops. It's not that I am shocked a guy I met 5 minutes ago won't go to a dark alley and get tied up. It's that I guy I have known for some time will do just about ANYTHING I say, including things I find incredibly unsafe, but not that. Despite the ability to get coffee with the other guy ahead of time, anything. Nope, nada. Yet, he'd suck a man's dick in a club? I don't get it.

For about 5 years I've toyed with the idea of sending a hot straight or bi boy to www.tieguyuk.com for example. I have emailed with the webmaster there for probably more than 8 years on and off. He's a sweet guy. He ties up guys who are straight - it's just the bondage thing. He doesn't need to do anything sexual with them. He has great toys and style. I think I've probably come across 10 - 12 subs in the last 5 years that I've developed a level of discussion with where they'd readily do a wide variety of complicated, risky, degrading things - but they won't take at train to Essex to get tied up (non sexually) by a guy who has a track record for being safe and sane. I can't even get them to send a photo over to the webmaster for consideration :) And this is after I offer to pay the costs. Believe me, I understand that there's risk and comfort level; what kind of gets under my skin is that they are willing to take a wide variety of risks and be in greater discomfort for other tasks. Of course, it's those tasks they want to do on some level anyway.

I doesn't take a genius domina to realize that of course, at the end of the day, a submissive needs to feel a deep level of devotion to do things that are not in his comfort zone. I get that. I respect that. What's irritating is when they say they are at that point and as evidence are willing to do x, y and z but going out of their confort zone *really* is just not even a consideration. The reality is that they are not quite as devoted as they say they are. Which is fine. OR, more men are incredibly homophobic than ever.

What is most surprising to me is how many subs will suck another man's dick (supposedly) but won't allow himself to be tied up, while clothed, by another man. I will keep looking though.

Akasha

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(in reply to MsIncontrol)

RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 7:37:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
What's irritating is when they say they are at that point and as evidence are willing to do x, y and z but going out of their confort zone *really* is just not even a consideration. The reality is that they are not quite as devoted as they say they are.

While you may have your own metric about how much or not it is for a given guy to go outside his comfort zone for a given activity, what will determine the outcome is the metric that the guy in question has about how much it is outside his comfort zone, be it for emotional discomfort or other reasons. What you think should be no big deal may indeed be a big deal for him.

Here is another way of looking at the situation:

Sub: Will you poop on me?
Domme: What?! No, I will not do that!
Sub: Why not? It's an act of dominance...
Domme: I said no!
Sub: You don't have to do anything, you simply relax your bowels like you do ordinarily. It's me that has to take it. If you can flog me which causes physical pain and requires you to use physical energy, why can't you do this? And you've peed on me before. What is the big deal about it?
Domme: I have given you my answer

What if the sub at this point said that he is irritated and claimed that the reality is that the domme is not quite as dominant as she says she is?

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 8/27/2008 8:01:51 AM >

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 11:18:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

Here is another way of looking at the situation:

Sub: Will you poop on me?
Domme: What?! No, I will not do that!
Sub: Why not? It's an act of dominance...
Domme: I said no!
Sub: You don't have to do anything, you simply relax your bowels like you do ordinarily. It's me that has to take it. If you can flog me which causes physical pain and requires you to use physical energy, why can't you do this? And you've peed on me before. What is the big deal about it?
Domme: I have given you my answer

What if the sub at this point said that he is irritated and claimed that the reality is that the domme is not quite as dominant as she says she is?

Cheers,

Sea

I think the difference here is that a domme ought to be free to decide how she wants to express her dominance - after all, she's the one in charge. We submissives, on the other hand, do what our dominants tell us. If either partner is going to step outside his or her comfort zone for the gratification of the other, it should be the submissive doing the stepping.

I'm a bit surprised that it's so difficult to find boys willing to take the train to Essex, metaphorically speaking. My Mistress and I sometimes talk about scenarios like the one described in the OP, and one of these days we might get around to enacting the reality. We've always imagined that Mistress would be there with myself and the other man, giving her instructions in person. But if she happened to know a suitable guy here in Beijing, and she wanted to see us together, I'd be perfectly open to getting together with him and treating her to a little bondage webcam show. I don't think I'd find it entirely comfortable to be tied up by another man, even if we both had all our clothes on - but discomfort, psychological as well as physical, can be exciting when it comes from my Mistress.

A question for Akasha - do you imagine the two men interacting as equals, perhaps taking turns to restrain each other, or would one of them take charge of the other subject to your instructions? Personally, I find different versions of the latter scenario - with me on the bottom - amazingly compelling as fantasies. I'm constantly surprised that powerful, sadistic women with male subordinates who help them dominate their slave boys are so incredibly rare in BDSM fiction (except for some of my own writing!) and visual pornography. Maybe I've just been looking in all the wrong places.

(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 12:08:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake

A question for Akasha - do you imagine the two men interacting as equals, perhaps taking turns to restrain each other, or would one of them take charge of the other subject to your instructions? Personally, I find different versions of the latter scenario - with me on the bottom - amazingly compelling as fantasies. I'm constantly surprised that powerful, sadistic women with male subordinates who help them dominate their slave boys are so incredibly rare in BDSM fiction (except for some of my own writing!) and visual pornography. Maybe I've just been looking in all the wrong places.

I like the second scenario hotter, to be sure. I would love to have an experienced bondage top sort of be my 'proxy' either via web cam or in person, and I'd give the commands and monitor the show per se, but he'd do the work and my slave would submit. This has been a hot button idea for a long time. I don't even have to see the guys get sexual at all, really. The undercurrent is there anyway. There does not have to be any nudity, although I'd like the bottom stripped down to at least briefs - but that's not mandatory. But no sexual touching, nothing.

So why, and what would happen? Well, for me, I find the man-man (but not necessarily gay, or bi) physical "rough housing" (even if there's no wrestling, and the bottom endures accordingly) to be incredibly hot; it's why I like certain sports with heavy guy/guy elements. There's also a simple but obvious dynamic at play here -- after all, why not just get a FEMALE proxy? Well, the dynamic this creates is that it's clearly unconditional surrender to me. It CLEARLY gets me off - I mean, in a HUGE way. But the submissive must endure the process - and no, he's not sexually violated or inappropriately touched -- in a very selfless manner. And I get the added bonus of all the hot juicy undercurrents that are probably, to be honest, mostly manufactured in my head.

Akasha

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(in reply to Wheldrake)

RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 7:36:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake
I think the difference here is that a domme ought to be free to decide how she wants to express her dominance - after all, she's the one in charge. We submissives, on the other hand, do what our dominants tell us. If either partner is going to step outside his or her comfort zone for the gratification of the other, it should be the submissive doing the stepping.

A domme ought to be free to decide how she wants to express her dominance within negotiated boundaries. It is reasonable for a heterosexual sub to define BDSM interaction with other men as a boundary. For you, it seems it is not a boundary, which is fair enough. It is equally fair for a heterosexual sub to maintain that boundary.

Sure, I think each partner should be open to hearing about or trying areas that do not carry appeal, and the nature of things make subs more likely to go outside their comfort zones. However, an emotional boundary cannot simply be changed by arguing. Some change has to occur within the person for the boundary to change.

In my opinion, it is unreasonable to become irritated because another will not go past such a boundary and like an activity the way one wants the other to, and then say that the other is just untrue in some way--it is unreasonable for a sub to do it and it is unreasonable for a domme to do it.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 8/27/2008 7:55:42 PM >

(in reply to Wheldrake)

RE: Two male subs for bondage fun. Is it just too odd a... - 8/27/2008 9:12:58 PM

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I dont think many guys will submit to another guy. If you let a dude tie you up you are basically submitting to him. If your sucking a cock because it turn on a girl your not really submitting to the guy. You can stop at any point. Let him tie you up for whatever reason and your kind of stuck.

(in reply to undergroundsea)

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