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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 8:19:58 AM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		Has anyone actually read the book? It doesn't seem to me to be lauding Bush at all:

A Conversation with Bing West, author of The Strongest Tribe http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2008/08/the-strongest-tribe-1/

You are critical of the president. Why? (pp 167, 199) The president didn’t study. The US military wanted to hand off the war to the Iraqis to win or lose. The president wanted the US military to win the war, not hand it off. He let this basic contradiction in strategy go unchallenged for years. Contrary to the public image, he and Secretary Rice were indecisive, letting the war drift until 2007.

You say General Petraeus didn’t turn the war around. (p 364) The war turned because the Sunni tribes came over to the American side before Petraeus arrived. Petraeus, a fine general, reinforced that success. But did not create it. The war was won from the bottom up due to the tenacity of our soldiers. It’s a dangerous delusion to believe any general can bring quick success. That belief allows the rest of us to feel we don’t have to commit or sacrifice in wartime. It’s up to the generals. That lets us off the hook, so we can vote for a war, and then disown it.

American soldiers' valor under the shrewd leadership of General Petraeus is winning the war in Iraq - no thanks to a feckless Bush Administration and a fickle American public. So writes Bing West in "The Strongest Tribe," the third book in his trilogy on the conflict and a passionate case for staying the course.

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 12:54:59 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, Iraq can't possibly be wrong... because, as Sarah Palin (McCain VP pick) stated.... "God ordained our actions in Iraq."

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 3:50:57 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Oh, Iraq can't possibly be wrong... because, as Sarah Palin (McCain VP pick) stated.... "God ordained our actions in Iraq."


Indeed, this also overlooks the fact that both sides worship the same God.

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 4:21:43 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credit is due
Given the relative paucity of commentary on Bush of late, here's a little piece for everyone to chew on, highlighting Bush's leadership qualities.


"The Iraq campaign is now on the cusp of victory". 

Yeah, right.  Do I even need to remind you how many times that has been said?  Do I even need to remind you we don't even have a working definition of what victory in Iraq will be? 

But what the hell!  All hail Bush!  Mission Accomplished.

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 4:28:50 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Oh, Iraq can't possibly be wrong... because, as Sarah Palin (McCain VP pick) stated.... "God ordained our actions in Iraq."


Did she really say that?

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 4:33:16 PM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jNulPSqaP1eyysv8ENJWhk0ZSrPgD92VH49G0



ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from God."

In an address last June, the Republican vice presidential candidate also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will."

Palin asked the students to pray for the troops in Iraq, and noted that her eldest son, Track, was expected to be deployed there.

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," she said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 4:43:30 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
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Status: offline 		The Iraq war will go down in history as one of the biggest, stupidest messes ever.  The so-called "surge" actually consisted of several elements, including bribing and forming alliances with some of the insurgents that Cheney and Rumsfeld pronounced dead years before.  Yes, that's right - our current "successful" strategy involves buying off the same folks that killed our troops.  The troop escalation is the part of the surge that has been trumpeted.  As far as I know, it is the only element that Bush is responsible for.

When the surge was announced, the White House announced goals and milestones to be accomplished by it.  Come grading time, the WH changed criteria in order to claim success.

That said, there does seem to be progress made over the past year.  Keep in mind, though, that the situation is not good and has not been good since the US invaded and assumed responsibility for Iraq.  Utilities are off most of the day, the government is pretty much the only big employer, the oil pipelines are semifunctional...  Claiming this as a success essentially ignores the first four years of the war.






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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 4:56:14 PM   
cloudboy


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Yes, let's give credit!!

The cost of the mission would be paid for with oil money.

Glad we were greeted as liberators.

Glad the resistance was comprised of nothing more than 'dead enders.'

Who know that looters would sack the IRAQI national museum while we safeguarded the oil ministry.

All hail to abu ghraib!

If only the war-mongers would foot the tax bill for the rest of us.

No civil war yet.

No WMD.

When do we get to bring our troops home?

The action has lasted longer than WWII.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/3/2008 4:57:09 PM >

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 6:22:05 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

But the surge DID work.

For some reason democrats have trouble admitting that one little detail.

Media spin.
According to many military personel coming back...we were where we are now before the surge. In tactical terms, all the surge did was send a message to the Iraqis that were not only going to stay but militarily get stronger...to whatever end.

If you'll notice there are still suicide bombings going on pretty much all around Iraqi cities. Many of the returning enlisted are saying that all they are doing is acting as Iraqi police because they don't know how to (incompetant) or run at the first shot fired when it gets hot.

Starting with the CPA and for almost 6 years it would be impossible to find any other historical comparison for incompetance.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/3/2008 6:28:17 PM >

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 6:24:41 PM   
MrRodgers


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Status: offline 		Edited for distraction

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/3/2008 6:27:50 PM >

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 7:17:59 PM   
blacksword404


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Joined: 1/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

But the surge DID work.

For some reason democrats have trouble admitting that one little detail.


It should have been done that way from the beginning. It's better to have too many than not enough. And the iraqi borders should have been clamped down tight. It doesn't really matter how many enemy fighters you kill if the have the ability to simply send more.


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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/3/2008 7:20:31 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Bill Clinton probably helped him write it.  They hang out a lot.
 
Regards, MissSCD
 

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/4/2008 3:51:10 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		It appears the campaign isn't going to let McCain OR Palin do any interviews going forward. Canned Speeches in controlled venues only.

I guess they've realized that her support for Ted Stevens and her support for Government Pork is a liability.

Well, that and the book banning, troopergate, failure as a Christian Mother, failure as a Career Woman etc...

She is a pretty nitwit, though.



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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/4/2008 10:58:55 PM   
L8bloomer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jNulPSqaP1eyysv8ENJWhk0ZSrPgD92VH49G0



ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from God."

In an address last June, the Republican vice presidential candidate also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will."

Palin asked the students to pray for the troops in Iraq, and noted that her eldest son, Track, was expected to be deployed there.

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," she said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."


That's just as whacked as al Qaeda's belief that  they are  involved in a righteous jihad against infidels.


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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/7/2008 8:35:57 AM   
bestbabync


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Obama on Bill O'Rielly last thursday night admitted the surg is working!

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/7/2008 8:50:40 AM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

No. Merely a necessary reminder that leadership is more than pious pontifications. Leadership is making decisions--at times unpopular decisions--based on what is, rather than what some feel should have been.

Even The One might learn that lesson someday (although doubtful in time to help him get into the Oval Office as anything but a visitor).


CL..... "what is"?

WMD's?.... Sadam"s support of Bin Ladin?

Please. The entire Iraq war is based on what wasn't there. I  blame not only GWB, but congress and the press too.

And before someone says Sadam was a bad man and had to be removed, there are many men in many places the should be removed. We havn't gone to Myamar...... or North Korea for that matter
Jeff

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/7/2008 9:34:07 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

The entire Iraq war is based on what wasn't there.

When was the last of Iraq's stockpile of yellowcake removed from that country?


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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/7/2008 9:50:47 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		Wackiest thread tittle of the Year Award goes to.......CL
Credit where credit is due....please you could build this guy's Presidential Library in a frigging phone booth !!!!

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RE: George W. Bush's legacy in Iraq: Credit where credi... - 9/7/2008 9:58:28 AM   
NumberSix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

The entire Iraq war is based on what wasn't there.

When was the last of Iraq's stockpile of yellowcake removed from that country?



there never was any.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries

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