RE: pro submissives

RE: pro submissives (Full Version)

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Ravensnake -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 11:56:32 AM)
My own view: There are those who like to whip &/or cane women and those who provide a service. It parallells prostitution in that a service is provided but its different from it. Personally I enjoy what I do which is a bonus for me....and my clients. That said, I wont let anyone loose on me if they dont know what they're doing. Being one who also uses whips, I have a lot of respect for whips, whichever side I'm on. Raven

CreativeDominant -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 12:06:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxxxpinkxxxx being a pro subbie,wondered what others though about the service we offer?? and weather or not you would visit a pro sub..really interested in comments...thanks (god i am letting myself in for it now!!) You asked for opinions so I will give you mine: I too see little submission in what you do. I see a whole lot of bottoming and about the only aspects that I see that differentiate what you do from non-pro bottoming are this...you get paid and the person doing the "topping" has a broader choice of activities since non-pro bottoms usually are seeking something and they state what it is they are seeking from the top. Of course, you have many more limits for, as noted by Lynxx, if you let them beat you the way they might want to beat you, then you'd be too bruised or too sore for the next client...hmmmmm, sort of like a "soft" bottom then, who dominates through limits that most non-pro bottoms, or many submissives for that matter, don't have. So I get to spend money to whip on someone that I can't whip as hard as I might like and don't get to have any sort of sexual interaction with and whose "submission" is dependant on the money...where is the advantage again?

Lynnxz -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 12:55:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: xxxxpinkxxxx being a pro subbie,wondered what others though about the service we offer?? and weather or not you would visit a pro sub..really interested in comments...thanks (god i am letting myself in for it now!!) You asked for opinions so I will give you mine: I too see little submission in what you do. I see a whole lot of bottoming and about the only aspects that I see that differentiate what you do from non-pro bottoming are this...you get paid and the person doing the "topping" has a broader choice of activities since non-pro bottoms usually are seeking something and they state what it is they are seeking from the top. Of course, you have many more limits for, as noted by Lynxx, if you let them beat you the way they might want to beat you, then you'd be too bruised or too sore for the next client...hmmmmm, sort of like a "soft" bottom then, who dominates through limits that most non-pro bottoms, or many submissives for that matter, don't have. So I get to spend money to whip on someone that I can't whip as hard as I might like and don't get to have any sort of sexual interaction with and whose "submission" is dependant on the money...where is the advantage again? Yes, there is less submission in it for the client. There HAS to be. It would make no sense whatsoever to let the client do whatever he felt like, as I've said before. What does the client get out of it? Use your imagination... actually you don't even have to work that hard- what does a client get out of a pro domme? -Lots of guys are doing it for the first time- they have someone to guide them -There's no relationship, other than business. I do get along great with some of the guys I play with, and I'm great friends with a couple that I meet- but there's no pressure on me with the whole 'Why didn't you calll meeee' aspect. There's no risk of that clingy pycho chick who's going to be posting about you abusing her 2 weeks later on collarme. -Speaking of posting about you, I keep my mouth shut about who I work with- and I'm not going to make videos of our German 'Nazi' prisoner role-play, and leak it out later. - Some people tend to think they are above professional-whatever, it's particularly prevalent in private messages sent to me, and when I attend munches and things. On the other hand... Why in the hell does it bother people that Pink, and others, call themselves 'Professional Submissives'? Is it really hurting you? Really? Is there some underlying reason for people to be offended by it? I must be missing something, I swear!

variation30 -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:12:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxxxpinkxxxx being a pro subbie,wondered what others though about the service we offer?? and weather or not you would visit a pro sub..really interested in comments...thanks (god i am letting myself in for it now!!) Thoughts? How much? I always need more experience. though is this line of work safe?

azropedntied -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:14:21 PM)
I have done many things in the exchange for tribute realm . Everything from service Top , demo , To paid educator , service bottom ,co-topping , more then one IE x's 2 or 3 for bottom scenes , to security .Not one case is the same and as a whole not universal either .I enjoyed some of the photo shoots ALOT and some were exhausting and down right draining .Some were private , some were under another s house of Domination aka Dungeon space . There never has been a huge calls for Pro males in one particular role and my own limits were almost always respected no matter the role or shoot . There are some very private people that can not afford to be seen out among the community or publics view to do what they wish or fill a need .Yes it was great fun , an adventure , and would not trade the experiance or growth gained from it . erin > in short i had Women who wanted to practice rope work and flogging ,to many other exchanges and like i said some were Dommes with out partners that wanted needs filled by Topping with out having to worry about a relationship dynamic or being seen with jokers with a camera .

mistoferin -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:16:33 PM)
I haven't seen responses that suggest that people are bothered by it at all. The OP asked what people's opinions of professional submissives are. Some have answered, including myself, that they don't see any "submission" in this. I did ask for it to be clarified but that has not yet been answered. But that does not mean that we are "bothered" by it. You do seem to be on the defensive about it though so I would have to think that is because it is a subject that is important to you. Maybe you are reading in things that aren't really in the intent of the posters?

mistoferin -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:20:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: azropedntied erin > in short i had Women who wanted to practice rope work and flogging ,to many other exchanges and like i said some were Dommes with out partners that wanted needs filled by Topping with out having to worry about a relationship dynamic or being seen with jokers with a camera . Thank you. I can see where such a service could be of value to some, especially those who wish to practice or learn. Are there safety measures in place? It would worry me to be bound and have a total newbie practicing singletailing on me or something. Is there another person involved who is instructing or overseeing?

Lynnxz -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:23:01 PM)
If it didn't bother people, then they wouldn't keep bringing it up. Pro submissives call themselves pro submissives because it makes sense. We do it for the same reason that Pro Dommes don't call themselves pro tops. Just because you don't 'see' submission in it, doesn't mean that I'm going to run off and change my website. And of course it's important to me. [8\|] This is what I do for a living at the moment.

DomDolf -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:28:16 PM)
People asking for opinions will almost always end in debate. Dolf

azropedntied -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:28:20 PM)
Erin in my case very few were allowed to use a single tail , as if i was damaged it would mean i would have been down for periods of time and unable to do anything .Like if i had a photo shoot i would not allow a serious spanking session unless the shoot called for marks , so it took some forethought and planning .Yes too about the safety aspect , i do not want a scene from the movie Hostel or saw movies redone to me , there was always a watchful eye of some kind .Sometimes i was that watchful eye .Many times there was a House Domme co-topping with newer clients as well .I started out doing security for the Women and one other Switch male and it went from there .

missturbation -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:32:55 PM)
quote: Yes, there is less submission in it for the client. There HAS to be. It would make no sense whatsoever to let the client do whatever he felt like, as I've said before. If someone said to me there is less submission in pro subbing i would agree. The reason you quote about not allowing the customer to do what they want entirely would not be my first thought on less submission though. My thought would be the 'mental' submission. How mentally submissive can you be to someone who is a client? There can't be an overwhelming connection with them all. On this same line i have seen you say recently you aren't so much into the pro subbing anymore for various reasons. I think (correct me if im wrong) you seem to be sick of it and what it brings. So baring this in mind as a client who wants someone to submit to them and is paying i would go nowhere near you. I know we don't have to enjoy our job to do it well but it certainly helps. If the reactions of a submissive sint there because you are basically 'lieing back and thinking of england' to coin a phrase, well what does the Dom / Domme get out of it? quote: There's no risk of that clingy pycho chick who's going to be posting about you abusing her 2 weeks later on collarme. Pretty sure there is still slight risk of this, everyone is human. quote: Some people tend to think they are above professional-whatever, it's particularly prevalent in private messages sent to me, and when I attend munches and things. Hearing this winds me up no end. I'm a professional as i'm sure many members of cm are but we don't go around claiming crap like this. Small rant, but i don't go round saying im a professional licensee, i say i run a pub, i'm a licensee. Why does pro have to go on the beginning of your job? I work as a Dom / Domme / sub. I think from talking to others thats what gets on peoples tits, the way its said by some, 'I'm a pro ......' Most people i know would say that Pro ......... speak like THEY are above everyone else. (some not all) quote: Is it really hurting you? Really? Is there some underlying reason for people to be offended by it? I must be missing something, I swear! People here don't seem to be offended by pro ........... You however seem to be offended by every word spoken. Over sensitive much.

mistoferin -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:34:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lynnxz If it didn't bother people, then they wouldn't keep bringing it up. Um...it was a pro submissive who brought it up and asked for opinions. I'm sorry that you get such an apparently hard time about your chosen profession. It is not my intent to give you one too. I've asked for clarification on things to understand them better as my understanding of it was pretty vague. I've now gotten some from azropentied. Now with that clarification I will say that to me, it doesn't make any sense at all to include the word "submissive" in it....but it also makes no sense to me to include the word "Dom/Domme" in a title with the word professional either. I simply do not see anything that resembles submission or domination in such an arrangement. That is not a personal slam...it's simply the way that I view it. To me it would be kind of like an escort calling themself a Pro Wife.

mistoferin -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:44:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: azropedntied Erin in my case very few were allowed to use a single tail , as if i was damaged it would mean i would have been down for periods of time and unable to do anything .Like if i had a photo shoot i would not allow a serious spanking session unless the shoot called for marks , so it took some forethought and planning .Yes too about the safety aspect , i do not want a scene from the movie Hostel or saw movies redone to me , there was always a watchful eye of some kind .Sometimes i was that watchful eye .Many times there was a House Domme co-topping with newer clients as well .I started out doing security for the Women and one other Switch male and it went from there . Thank you, that makes sense and I'm glad to know that safety is a concern that is thought of and addressed. Do you (or in your case did you) see the client in their own home or is this something that happens strictly in some sort of club? I would assume that there is a much higher risk at the private home of a stranger. How would clents learn how to find your services? I don't believe that we have such things here. I mean I have certainly heard of them...but not here. Is it through word of mouth, advertising in lifestyle clubs, that sort of thing?

azropedntied -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:48:04 PM)
Back when i was involved , like i said i was a pro aka getting paid for many thing s .Pro to me simply means your getting paid be it teaching at an event , or a photo shoot , or whatever the case maybe . Being able to do more things with in the bdsm realm and wider context gave me more chances to work .Now i am too old , and males are still not as sought after .I don't speak of it often and nor do i speak to the Pro as a whole or in a blanket sense was there are many roles and many hats to wear .If some are bothered by it , well that's their problem and i don't have time for that , if others wish to learn and know a little about it i am happy to share somewhat my personal dealings .I still present in class form from time to time and getting paid is not a total requirement as i like to also give back to the community in which i belong .I also demo and help others in classes sometimes the pay is just the education gained by others or a dinner after the class .LOL i am not as bendy as i once was .. Hope that helps [:)]

Lynnxz -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:49:49 PM)
quote: If someone said to me there is less submission in pro subbing i would agree. The reason you quote about not allowing the customer to do what they want entirely would not be my first thought on less submission though. My thought would be the 'mental' submission. How mentally submissive can you be to someone who is a client? There can't be an overwhelming connection with them all. On this same line i have seen you say recently you aren't so much into the pro subbing anymore for various reasons. I think (correct me if im wrong) you seem to be sick of it and what it brings. So baring this in mind as a client who wants someone to submit to them and is paying i would go nowhere near you. I know we don't have to enjoy our job to do it well but it certainly helps. If the reactions of a submissive sint there because you are basically 'lieing back and thinking of england' to coin a phrase, well what does the Dom / Domme get out of it? There's bad days, yes- an I am guilty of bitching about it every once in a while. :P I do actually have fun at a lot of the sessions I go to, as I've said earlier in the thread. . There can certainly be chemistry in a pro session, especially with repeat clients. I agree, lying there like a bored fish isn't going to do anything for anyone, and that's something I avoid. quote: Hearing this winds me up no end. I'm a professional as i'm sure many members of cm are but we don't go around claiming crap like this. Small rant, but i don't go round saying im a professional licensee, i say i run a pub, i'm a licensee. Why does pro have to go on the beginning of your job? I work as a Dom / Domme / sub. I think from talking to others thats what gets on peoples tits, the way its said by some, 'I'm a pro ......' Most people i know would say that Pro ......... speak like THEY are above everyone else. I'm not sure why everyone says the pro-this, pro-that. My intention is not to say that I'm better than someone who doesn't want to bottom for money. I guess it's because when you say 'I run a pub', people assume that you don't do it for free. If I run around at a fetish convention saying I'm a sub, everyone is going to look at me like I've lost my mind, and could I please go away? However, if I tell the photographers and such that I'm a pro sub, then hey, I might get a deal out of it somewhere. quote: People here don't seem to be offended by pro ........... You however seem to be offended by every word spoken. Over sensitive much. I'm not offended by that, it's the people who are arguing that pro's shouldn't call themselves submissives, because they don't see submission in it. And like I keep saying... it's just because it sounds better. Is it twue submission? Probably not, but it's not bothering me.

xxxxpinkxxxx -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:53:49 PM)
what people think does not affect me or my decisions,its just that there is so much out there for pro Dom/mes...im genuinely interested in feedback...

DomDolf -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:54:17 PM)
In my opinion, I believe there is a negative connotation to pro because so many of us work hard at what we do with devotion to those we do it with. I am not offended by other's choices, but if someone labeled me as a pro I would be upset. It implies a lack of devotion to the play partner. To be clear, it doesn't matter to me whether you're pro-submissive or pro-dominant you are not devoted to your clients in the context that I believe Ds insinuates. So far, the examples of sessions offered all involve BDSM and little Ds. If it's BDSM only, without submission then it is topping and bottoming. Sweetening it with words like domme and submissive is like giving coffee a sexy name. Simply marketing. So, unless there is something I don't understand, I will go on feeling an uneasiness with the use of pro-submissive and pro-dominant/domme. I am not against the profession, just the term. Dolf

azropedntied -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:55:00 PM)
erin , its amazing just how small the bdsm community really is and yes most was done by referrals and word of mouth .Only people that have shown some sanity and experiance and those were very few that got a private in home visit .for i would say 97% of the time it was done on site , or at an event or gathering . Even some photo shoots i had a rep near by .

xxxxpinkxxxx -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:57:10 PM)
ok..the advantage would be for those who want a sub,no strings no ties(it does happen) ..and you seem to think you know me and how i conduct myself in a session...strange..you have obviopusly decided wht i do ,without even asking me..how could you possibly know how i feel or think or interact with a client?? psycic are we??

azropedntied -> RE: pro submissives (9/5/2008 1:59:58 PM)
Umm Dolf , i have seen the work and dedication on all sides of the Pro , and i would say with out a doubt it is work , its not easy money .For some like i said they do not want the attachment , they wish to fill a need and are willing to pay to do so , and do it in private .

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