RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion (9/23/2008 11:55:05 AM)

Infanticide is the practice of someone intentionally causing the death of an infant. Often it is the mother who commits the act, but criminology recognises various forms of non-maternal child murder. In many past societies, certain forms of infanticide were considered permissible, whereas in most modern societies the practice is considered immoral and criminal. Nonetheless, it still takes place — in the Western world usually because of the parent's mental illness or violent behavior, and in some poor countries as a form of population control, sometimes with tacit societal acceptance. Female infanticide is more common than the killing of male offspring due to sex-selective infanticide. In the United Kingdom, the Infanticide Act defines "infanticide" as a specific crime that can only be committed by the mother during the first twelve months of her baby's life. The broader notion of infanticide, as described below, is the subject matter of this article.


A human infant less than a month old is a newborn or a neonate. The term "newborn" includes premature infants, postmature infants and full term newborns.

Abortion is NOT infanticide.... to be an infant you have to have gone thru childbirth.





Briena -> RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion (9/23/2008 3:21:11 PM)

~~Fast Reply~~

Im glad you pointed that out Lucy.  I was about to go all out and get the dictionary to make sure he understood what exactly he was talking about.

As for putting time restraints on abortions...  When I had mine I was 11 weeks.  I had to wait to get it done until they had an open appointment.  I was 1 week shy of passing my first trimester.  Its one thing to ban partial birth abortions, but putting a short time limit on when you can get one is nonsense.  I didnt find out I was pregnant with my son until I was almost 7 weeks pregnant.  Im one of those crazy women who have random periods.  Having the option to terminate a pregnancy should always be an option for a woman.  I would rather a woman have an abortion than to either have a child she doesnt want, or damage the fetus because of her lifestyle.  I had a friend that had two or three abortions... She was a drug addict, and she knew that she A: wouldnt be a good mother, B: couldnt take care of a child, and C: that the child would be born addicted to drugs, and most likely have some type of deformation/retardation.  So although she was irresponsible in her day to day life, she was atleast responsible to get an abortion.  Now she is clean and sober and doesnt regret her actions.  She knows that it was the best choice for her.  The women who have an issue with their choice after getting an abortion are the ones that didnt think their actions through.  Like I said before, its not a decision that should be taken lightly.  Also those people calling the women who get abortions baby killers....

fetus ~
1.  The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
2.  In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as
  distinguished from the earlier embryo.

Infanticide~
1.  The act of killing an infant
2.  The practice of killing newborn infants
3.  A person who kills an infant

Infant~
1.  A child during the earliest periods of life, especially before he or she can walk; baby
2.  A very young child (birth to 1 year) who has not yet begun to walk or talk

You cant participate in infanticide if there is no infant to kill...  Just some FYI




RCdc -> RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion (9/23/2008 3:34:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Abortion is infanticide. It is the deliberate extinction of human life. It is nothing but this.


No it is not.  CL, I can understand your commitment to your stance, but you discredit yourself by using such tactics.
 
the.dark.





slvemike4u -> RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion (9/23/2008 4:19:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You're entitled to your opinion, even if you are wrong. You have the right to be wrong.
There is no requirement that he exercise that right as often as he he has done ....is there?




Aynne88 -> RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion (9/23/2008 4:31:40 PM)

Have you gone totally daft CL? I truly cannot even contemplate the mind of a person that makes such an erroneous statement. Kittin has totally shredded every one of your "arguments" and this is what you throw out?




quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The sophistry, kittin, is attempting to argue that abortion is not the ending of a human life.

Abortion is infanticide. It is the deliberate extinction of human life. It is nothing but this.




hoodie -> RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion (9/23/2008 4:43:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lostkitten2

I am disturbed by the phrase "pro abprtion" as if we go out and entice women into our den of iniquity and convince innocent women that abortions are "good for you" and they should kill their babies muah hah hah. Seriously, it's a right to choose to have an abortion, if you feel it is necessary. I wouldn't give birth or carry to term a baby that had no brainstem, I would abort it. However, I don't appreciate people aborting babies simply because they are inconvenient at that time. That seems very irresponsible to me.

It seem to me that most "pro life" folks believe in the "you play you pay" version of pennance for sin, however they are doing very little to help these young women with their child once it comes (and all us moms know that is the hard part, when the fellas usually run away, or we loose our minds.) Babies are a LOT of work, and I can't condemn a 18 year old for not feeling ready to be the sole caretaker for another life. Sorry fellas, sometimes you do pull through, Kudos to those that stay and man up to your responsibility, but it's not often, perhaps you aren't often given the options, but I have heard of a LOT of separations lately when the kids is 18 months...

There is a direct correlation between abortion and increased risk of breast cancer, is that a punishment by god or simply the body not knowing what to do with developed mammary glands when no one nurses them and all the hormones suddenly drop? It doesn't happen with miscarriages.
So what do y ou call someone like me who is not "Pro abortion" but is "Pro Choice" so long as it is made responsibly and not simply as birth control? Because that is damaging to their own bodies, and can cause damage to future kids, emotionally for many different reasons.

Palin is a very poor example of a woman, simply because she is not parenting her 5 (4?) kids and they are clearly quite messed up for it. Seeking love and comfort they missed out on from other places, while Mom is off fulfilling her abitious career goals.......I believe if people were parenting their kids better, there wouldn't need to be so many abortions......but that's another hill to die on...


I've bolded a portion of your post for a simple reason.  Your assessment of the pro-life movement is quite wrong. 

As a pro-life woman, I see great value in helping women who've found themselves with no where to turn, and helping them get connected with whatever resources they need to carry on once the realization of pregnancy has set in.

As a young teenager, who'd found herself in the shoes of many of the women and girls I now help, I can tell you that if it were not for the House of His Creation, a Christian based maternity home, I don't know what I would have done.

If you would like to research the subject I can gladly give you all the information you need.  However, to say that we pro-lifers don't care about the women OR the babies is probably the grossest misrepresentation I've ever heard.

And I also understand where that comes from.  The only part of the pro-life movement seen or heard about are those imbeciles standing outside of Planned Parenthood and other clinics calling them whores, sluts and baby killers.  Well I am proud to say that we, who are in contact with pregnant women, don't share their views, and would like the focus to be fixated OFF of them nutjobs, and onto the more meaningful work that we do, in the trenches, on a daily basis.

I am an on-call counselor, 24/7, for pregnant women in a materinity home in Coatesville, PA.  Having gone through many of the same things, I am relied upon to help them through some of the tensest moments, and biggest decisions of their lives.  I have laughed, I have cried, I have even had to temper my own personal beliefs when on a few occasions, they've decided to abort.  That's what we do.  We reach out to them, and remain staunchly supportive, even if their decision does break our very hearts.  I cannot hate a woman who aborts.  I can dislike the act itself, but she enters not into that dislike.

Roe vs. Wade, as most of us pro-lifers understand, will remain standing.  It has not been played with in 35 years.... and the fringe element of the Republican party won't have the votes, even among our ranks to get it done now.  We want restrictions, yes.... we see it imperative for parental notification.  Many of us believe that even in cases of rape, incest, and health of the mother it is not even a choice.  Myself, and many of my colleagues, as egregious as we believe abortion to be, would never dream of revictimizing a woman who's already been, or making a woman choose between her life or her baby's.  That's not our business.  Our business is to be the shoulder they can cry on, the vast resource of community services, housing, clothing, medical care is big on our list, as well as a friend, and a confidant.

And the above is just a small part of what we do. 





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