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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 9:32:06 AM   
DesFIP


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Merc, even with cell phones, sometimes the battery is dead and the car charger is in the other car, sometimes I'm in a no coverage area. Frequently he is, he'll be out of reach while at work all this week.

For something like that, I wouldn't accept punishment because the flat, and no way to call wouldn't be my fault. Plus the resulting panic attack wouldn't be out of disrespect for him or our relationship.

I think you're closer to the city than I am, you probably are always within coverage and/or walking distance to a store to ask them to call the police. But some of us aren't.

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 10:08:10 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Merc, even with cell phones, sometimes the battery is dead and the car charger is in the other car, sometimes I'm in a no coverage area. Frequently he is, he'll be out of reach while at work all this week.

For something like that, I wouldn't accept punishment because the flat, and no way to call wouldn't be my fault. Plus the resulting panic attack wouldn't be out of disrespect for him or our relationship.

I think you're closer to the city than I am, you probably are always within coverage and/or walking distance to a store to ask them to call the police. But some of us aren't.

Celeste,
I picked on one example to illustrate the point regarding 'setting up' beth for failure. Your situation may not be the same. However, in 2008, with car phone cell chargers, AAA memberships, regular maintenance, and all of the other resources available - I think there is very little chance for that to happen, at least to beth. Cell service, especially where we live, is VERY haphazard; however, in this case, I'd be sure to check my cell phone messages over a land line after beth was overdue by more than 5 minutes. Not only would I, but I have; situations and road conditions in LA tend to cause delays beyond the best intentions. When they occur I expect the respect of a phone call; not just so I'm not waiting, but because the first emotions experienced would be worry and concern. 

Responding to the conditions as given, if - after getting over the panic and expectation that the news I'd hear would be that she died - all those unlikely conditions you gave occurred at the same time; there would be no cause for 'punishment'. However, I hope you appreciate that your example is very far removed from the tone and intent of behavior and subsequent 'punishment' given as the subject of the OP.

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 10:28:15 AM   
softness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I didn't come up with it, just spreading the word, and I think it's exactly the term for this sort of dynamic.  I can enjoy "funishment" for brief periods when everyone knows it's just a big joke and tease and no one's really taking it seriously.  But it would be tiring and stressful for anything beyond that. 


exactly how it is for me ...



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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 10:30:02 AM   
softness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: silkncarol

I don't understand those Dominants who feel they need to find a reason for BDSM play.......He's the Dominant....he doesn't really need a reason, other than he wants to or finds it amusing....


agree with this 100% ... it goes along with all behaviours and protocols that are designed to "prove a point" ... I don't need that point proving ... its proved ... so who exactly does need the point proving ... ?

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 1:57:48 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

. Cell service, especially where we live, is VERY haphazard; however, in this case, I'd be sure to check my cell phone messages over a land line after beth was overdue by more than 5 minutes. Not only would I, but I have; situations and road conditions in LA tend to cause delays beyond the best intentions. When they occur I expect the respect of a phone call; not just so I'm not waiting, but because the first emotions experienced would be worry and concern. 

Responding to the conditions as given, if - after getting over the panic and expectation that the news I'd hear would be that she died - all those unlikely conditions you gave occurred at the same time; there would be no cause for 'punishment'. However, I hope you appreciate that your example is very far removed from the tone and intent of behavior and subsequent 'punishment' given as the subject of the OP.


I do, but somehow the tone of your post was that there is no excuse not to get a phone call ever and I wanted to point out that for some of us there is. I live on the side of the mountain with coverage, on the other side there is none, and this is two hours from Manhattan! People say cell phones like you're always in contact, but around here that's hit or miss, we have dead zones everywhere.

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 2:15:48 PM   
kiwisub12


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I agree with you , softness, as a sub/slave, i don't need "correction" - i'm not that bad a sub.  Infact my Sir has had to play with me just for fun, because as he says - i don't do anything wrong - damn it!!

As for having my Sir watch me constantly for things to punish me for? -   i'm glad it works for them, but it so wouldn't work for me. I don't like to fail in anything, and i wouldn't want to think i was so  bad a sub that i needed a running tab of badness!  Besides, i'm thinking my Sir would think that would be too much work!

Glad you are enjoying your life softness.  Sounds like fun .

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 2:42:36 PM   
marieToo


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I'm not into the whole funishment thing.  Or maybe I am but I don't consider it punishment play.  What I mean is I'm ok with my Dom teasing or torturing me for his pleasure simply because he feels like it.  But I'm not into creating reasons for it.  From the other side of the kneel, I'm not one to act up or be bratty so I can earn a whipping under the guise of punishment either.  I have no problem just asking for a beating if I need one.  For me, it's a more authentic approach than doing a punishment role-play scene. 

Punishment punishment is another story for me, but I won't go there, because I don't think that's what you were looking for in the OP topic.

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 3:57:27 PM   
BlackPhx


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Use the word Punishment with me and there will be nothing about the time that I will enjoy. Master could use every single implement and trick I enjoy and all it will do is move me to tears because I have in some way failed or fu**ed up. It has taken him a long time to understand this and it is something that stems from an earlier period of my life. It has however penetrated and now we schedule or indulge in (if he gets to be home for more than a couple of hours) Dances.

Why the term Dance? Because a dance is a partnership of joy and an expression of that joy. For every movement there is a counter or matching movement. It can be accompanied by song (moans, whimpers and laughter) or silent but it will always evoke emotions. The flogger, whip or cane keeps the cadence and the body moves in time with it. But call it punishment and there is no joy to share.

I have met many who do the observance for infractions to punish for and if that is the dynamic that works for them, cool. But I would hate to think that something so joyous could only be shared if there was a reason to spank, whip or torment other than the sheer joy of sensation and sharing.

poenkitten



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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 4:09:14 PM   
IronBear


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From a personal perspective, Punishment is Punishment and has nothing to do with forplay/four, five or even sex(sex)play. I believe it should be reserved for those times when it may vbe deemed necessary to punich a sub/slave and nothing else. Role Playing Punishment is a different kettle of fish just as role playing interogation is totally different to real interogation where often permanant long term damage is excepted and even loss of life. 

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(in reply to softness)
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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 5:54:45 PM   
catize


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quote:

What has been referred as 'funishment' falls into what I would categorize as sadistic play. Being sadistic, I employ that technique commonly and it can be anything I happen to think of at the time; from holing a string between her teeth that if dropped would have weights pull nipples and other tender bits, not given permission to orgasm under direct stimulation, not using the indoor bathroom facilities...like I said, whatever warped idea happens to be going through my mind at any time during the day. Some may consider the result of that play as 'punishment'. I won't argue the semantics but there is a major difference beyond the actions.   

quote:

  It could be said that I'm setting up beth for failure in my little created dynamics. If you can't see the distinction - it would be a waste of time to try and explain it.


Sadistic play, pain play, the key word here is play!  In my relationships, I am allowed to ask for pain but I’ve never had to—both R. and S. are wayyy ahead of me in the ‘make the sadist happy’ scenarios they create.
Pretend can certainly be fun, but what I appreciate about both of them is that they don’t need an ‘excuse’ other than it is what they want to do.
I do get it!


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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 8:28:43 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

quote:

ORIGINAL: silkncarol

I don't understand those Dominants who feel they need to find a reason for BDSM play.......He's the Dominant....he doesn't really need a reason, other than he wants to or finds it amusing....


agree with this 100% ... it goes along with all behaviours and protocols that are designed to "prove a point" ... I don't need that point proving ... its proved ... so who exactly does need the point proving ... ?


I agree, as well.  We don't have a punishment element in our dynamic... well, that I'm aware of, anyway.    Firm has said I've never given him cause to punish me, and I hope I never do... though he doesn't have to have a reason to use or "abuse" me, other than it's what it wants to do.

However, I do understand that there are some dominants who don't get the same enjoyment from just arbitrarily asserting their dominance.  Not all dominants are sadists who enjoy seeing their sub squirm, or delight in a reddened bottom... some simply enjoy being in a position of authority and being in control.  I can see how "punishing" their sub might not be as "fun" for them if the element of purpose is absent... if they didn't feel their actions had some underlying justification or accomplished some goal.

If simply exercising their right to "punish" just because they can, it's understandable to me that dominants like this might feel they were just playing at being in control, rather than actually asserting control for a specific reason.  I'm capable of doing many things just because I want to, but I rarely enjoy or want to do something unless I feel there's a useful purpose.  I don't particularly like to spin my wheels or expend energy on fruitless exercises.

Of course, I can also see where a situation like this might be a challenge for a submissive who is a masochist, or one who simply enjoys those reassuring displays of dominance.  Perhaps some of those dominants who create rules and establish protocols, do so because they recognize it as a way to fulfill both their desire for legitimate purpose and their sub's needs.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 9/15/2008 8:34:10 PM >

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/15/2008 8:43:01 PM   
ExSteelAgain


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Yeah, some people are looking for problems and find them. Others aren’t and don’t find them.

Chain and I had a chat tonight online about punishment. I told her if we lived together, I wouldn’t find reasons to whip her, but I would tell her if she did something I wanted with enthusiasm, I would spank/flog/whip her as a reward.

Why play games if you both want it? Why introduce some kind of guilt psychological BS into something you both enjoy? Hell, I want her to feel good about being whipped because I like doing it.

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/16/2008 4:16:40 AM   
Deliena


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
Why play games if you both want it? Why introduce some kind of guilt psychological BS into something you both enjoy? Hell, I want her to feel good about being whipped because I like doing it.


That's a good point ExSteelAgain, but for some of us part of the attraction is the fact that there is the psychological BS (and believe me we know it's BS, that's it's not real punishment but the scenario works).  In common with people who crave emotionally distressing scenarios or other psychological scenarios part of the 'click' of the thing is the way it's played out.  Not to say those that don't want that element are wrong or those that do want it are wrong, it's just a different kinda kink - lot of that about. <shrug>  still don't think i've managed to work out why i find it hot though, no abusive childhood, no teacher i had a crush on that spanked me at school, it's all a bit of a mystery..... <wanders off to ponder it again>

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/16/2008 5:25:09 AM   
eyesopened


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Think of it as a form of role-playing.  Some people like the idea of having an 'excuse' to inflict some kind of "punishment" but punishement is just their word for it.  Just like birthday spankings no one thinks the spanking is a punishment but it's difficult to find another word for it.  People are different.  The couple in question obviously were enjoying their role-play and more power to them.  As to why?  I can only guess that some like to play the brat and some like to play the breaker of brattiness.  I'm sure if Master and I were observed in a club or at a munch there could be horrible comments made about how our dynamic is undesireable, plain, boring, or whatever.  I really couldn't explain our dynamic other than to say, it works for us.

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/16/2008 6:50:05 AM   
ExSteelAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deliena

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
Why play games if you both want it? Why introduce some kind of guilt psychological BS into something you both enjoy? Hell, I want her to feel good about being whipped because I like doing it.


That's a good point ExSteelAgain, but for some of us part of the attraction is the fact that there is the psychological BS (and believe me we know it's BS, that's it's not real punishment but the scenario works).  In common with people who crave emotionally distressing scenarios or other psychological scenarios part of the 'click' of the thing is the way it's played out.  Not to say those that don't want that element are wrong or those that do want it are wrong, it's just a different kinda kink - lot of that about. <shrug>  still don't think i've managed to work out why i find it hot though, no abusive childhood, no teacher i had a crush on that spanked me at school, it's all a bit of a mystery..... <wanders off to ponder it again>



A good point you make, too. I understand that many people like that type of role play/ritualistic encounters and punishment. That’s fine and I’ve done some. I understand the power of such play.

I once knew a spankee who wanted me to call her at work, find something wrong and tell her that I would spank her that night for her indiscretion. That night, she would sit on my lap, hugging, kissing and begging me not to spank her. I HAD to say, “I’m doing this for your own good.”

She orgasmed like hell everytime when I spanked her much as she begged me not to spank her.


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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/16/2008 6:53:30 AM   
Deliena


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Thanks for responding XSA (i've decided i'm making an acronym for your name it's too long <grins>) and validating that something of what i dribbled into the computer made sense (i've read it twice and am still not sure it makes sense haha)  It's another of those, well if it works for you..... things i guess.  As eyesopened said above other people looking into a dynamic/relationship/scene probably only get a tenth of what is *really* going on for the people actively involved in it.

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/16/2008 7:53:59 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Think of it as a form of role-playing.  Some people like the idea of having an 'excuse' to inflict some kind of "punishment" but punishement is just their word for it.  Just like birthday spankings no one thinks the spanking is a punishment but it's difficult to find another word for it.  People are different.  The couple in question obviously were enjoying their role-play and more power to them.  As to why?  I can only guess that some like to play the brat and some like to play the breaker of brattiness.  I'm sure if Master and I were observed in a club or at a munch there could be horrible comments made about how our dynamic is undesireable, plain, boring, or whatever.  I really couldn't explain our dynamic other than to say, it works for us.


And this brings up another good point.  For me, "funishment" is something that is done rarely.  I don't do brats and I can't stand SAMs.  But it seems that since I have always enjoyed playing with submissives...both casual and long-term...who had spirit ranging from mild to wild, there were times when they needed that display of dominant assertion, even though it was done in play.  If it had been real...with them challenging me directly, time and time again...then "real" discussion would have taken place, "real" discipline would have been delivered, and a change in direction would have either taken place or they would have been gone.
I don't need an excuse to play other than "I want to do this...or I want to do that" and I do so.  I don't like to mix up in their mind or in my own the separation between play and discipline, between play and physical punishment.

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/16/2008 8:23:38 AM   
Deliena


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someone do me a favour and spell out SAM for me?  I've done a search and found it related to brattiness but not what the acronym means and it's bugging me there's a word i completely don't understand... many thanks (apologies for the hijack - if someone would prefer to CMail me the answer that would be very helpful)

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RE: Punitive Relationships - 9/16/2008 8:24:42 AM   
Lynnxz


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SAM- short for  sammich, or Smart Assed Masochist. 

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