RE: Positive Relationshkips (Full Version)

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KatyLied -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/16/2008 1:08:26 PM)

quote:

Theres a ton of luck involved n 2 people meeting at all,


Yep.  I can position myself for success, but there will always be things out of my control.  Sometimes you are put in positions of good or bad that you can't claim the credit for.




RCdc -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/16/2008 1:10:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Theres a ton of luck involved n 2 people meeting at all,


Yep.  I can position myself for success, but there will always be things out of my control.  Sometimes you are put in positions of good or bad that you can't claim the credit for.



So why is that 'luck' - why isn't it just life?
 
the.dark.




Ialdabaoth -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/16/2008 1:12:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

So why is that 'luck' - why isn't it just life?
 
the.dark.


Because people ALL THE TIME say "well, that's life" out one side of their mouth, and "you make your own luck" out the other. It lets us discriminate - it means that bad luck happens to people we like, but bad decisions happen to people we don't.

Screw that.




RCdc -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/16/2008 1:17:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
Because people ALL THE TIME say "well, that's life" out one side of their mouth, and "you make your own luck" out the other. It lets us discriminate - it means that bad luck happens to people we like, but bad decisions happen to people we don't.

Screw that.

 
All people?
I don't believe so.
 
the.dark.




MadRabbit -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/16/2008 1:18:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

quote:

I totally agree.

But the fact remains that many people have shopping lists.


the.dark.


I completely get what you're saying there.  However, when they're looked at closely, the vast bulk of what's included in those shopping lists falls into the "makes me happy" category rather than outside.  I think they tend to fall into the following categories:

1)  'Weird Science' perfect partner building games.  Physical traits that people are attracted to.  A love of a specific band.  A Scottish accent.  That kind of thing.

2)  Things that it's highly likely that anyone who they'd be happy being with would fit, though it's not completely out of the question there could be exceptions.  Similar political views.  Participating in a hobby that's a major part of your life.  Subcultural identification, for those whom that's important for you.

For me , that would be understanding quite how passionately I care about music and being the same.  That's far more important than musical taste for me.  It's about understanding why I get so excited when I discover a new band and want to share it with everyone.  Because, without someone having that trait, I'm not going to be able to connect with them in a way that's very important to me.

So I think the odds are its highly likely that anyone I have potential with is going to be like that.  However, I don't feel able to unconditionally state that's going to be the case.  If someone makes me happy in every other way, I'm not going to necessarily see that issue as the dealbreaker it feels like at the moment.  Does that make some kind of sense?

3)  Life goals.  Whether people want children.  Plans to relocate.  Whether marriage is an eventual aim.  Those are the most complex, because conflicts tend to surface more heavily with time than at the start of a relationship.

The last category are probably the ones most likely to fall out of my "happiness" summary.  They aren't for me.  Because I'm interested in the happiness of the moment, whether that moment lasts a month or 20 years.  So I try not to worry about long term potential.  But I fully understand that isn't the perspective everyone has on relationships.  And for those people, it is understandable that they're not willing to get into a relationship that feels right now, if they don't think it will still do so in the future.



I think that's a pretty fair assessment. I have my own shopping list, but I try very hard to limit it to the things that I know I NEED to be intrigued in someone.

1. Physical attraction and sexual chemistry. It's not something I can put into a linear list of boob sizes and hair colors, but something that is either "there" or "not there".

2. Passion and drive for life. Whatever the goals or the focus of that is, is irrelevant as long as they desire "more" than something solely mundane and can take the steps to "live life".

3. The capacity for deep thought. Without that, the chances of them understanding me are very nil.

4. Submission.

Trying to flesh it out as more than that is too limiting in my eyes. I want people who have different viewpoints, interests, and hobbies then me, because it makes the experience of being with them rich.




VampiresLair -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/16/2008 1:26:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark


So why is that 'luck' - why isn't it just life?
 
the.dark.

You call it life, I call it luck. Or coincidence. Or blessed. Whatever.
Thats along the lines of your kink is not my kink. Whatever you chose to call it, whenever you choose to call it anything... what works for me is to believe that I was very lucky in finding Fox.
 
DV
 




NihilusZero -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/16/2008 4:00:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

And luck.  I am convinced that it's as much luck as anything else.


Agreed. And that's the part easiest to become disillusioned with.




NihilusZero -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/16/2008 4:02:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

So why is that 'luck' - why isn't it just life?


Much of life is luck. So essentially, it is both.




RCdc -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 4:35:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

So why is that 'luck' - why isn't it just life?


Much of life is luck. So essentially, it is both.



I disagree, there is no consensus as to 'life' apart from the fact that is the status of not being dead.  Luck has no base in reason or knowledge, life does.  So no, they are not the same from either from a definition, scientific or superstitious POV.
 
I understand that people use luck instead of life - but the question was why?  I simply want to know if it is more than using a prefered word or for whatever reason.  So if you are not a superstitious person, or you don't believe in chance - why use a word that creates a mysterious air?  If I ask a question and they respond, it gets me to understand a poster more so when they post again on other topics, I can take it into consideration and weed out bias or bullshit, depending. Effective communication is what positive relationships is about for me.  People that gets defensive, silent or evasive over a question wouldn't be worth my time so that relationship wouldn't go anywhere.
 
For me as I said, I don't believe in luck. Its too easy a get out clause for me and isn't particularly rational.  For me things need to be measurable.  I get that people use the word and it rocks for them and that is all cool, my question was why do you use it that gives it advantage over the use of 'life'?
 
the.dark.




kidwithknife -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 4:50:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
 So if you are not a superstitious person, or you don't believe in chance - why use a word that creates a mysterious air?


I use it.  For me, it's because I don't actually believe either rationality or the scientific method are the correct mechanism for every question.  For certain types of question, they're perfect.  But I think that other questions are best looked at in other ways.  And the question of relationships I tend to approach, first and foremost, philosophically.  Or even artistically.
 
quote:

For me as I said, I don't believe in luck. Its too easy a get out clause for me and isn't particularly rational.  For me things need to be measurable.  I get that people use the word and it rocks for them and that is all cool, my question was why do you use it that gives it advantage over the use of 'life'?


However, that said, I think that there are still some ways that the concept of luck is measurable in the way you suggest.  Take two people, who for whatever reason, aren't able to relocate.  The only real difference between their situations is that one lives in a large city and one in a small village.  The former is obviously far more likely to find someone who they're compatible with.  Isn't that the very definition of "lucky"?






eyesopened -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 4:56:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I totally get what you are saying and agree.  I love the last paragraph actually - it rocks for me because I identified with it so well - and still do.  People miss so many great or potential moments of any length because they get so fixed.  If I had been fixed, reality is that I would not be in the relationship I am today.  the.dark.

 
And I identify with this totally!  I see so many people put limitations and qualifiers on their happiness that I wonder if they really want to be happy.  Instead of saying "Once I achieve this, that, and the other thing, I can be happy."  why not just say "I choose to be happy right now."  Instead of saying "I can only be with someone who has X, Y, and Z", why not just say "I choose relationships that support my relationship goals"? 
 
See, the problem I have with the OP is that is assumes everyone has the same relationship goals as the originator of this thread.  For nearly a decade I did not want a relationship that had responsibility and commitment attached to it.  By knowing and communicating my relationship goals, I've always had the relationships I wanted.




LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 5:11:18 AM)

one of the key problems is people do not take responsibility




RCdc -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 5:11:30 AM)

Thanks for the input I appriciate it.
I like the concept of 'artistically' - could you expand on that at all?
 
quote:

However, that said, I think that there are still some ways that the concept of luck is measurable in the way you suggest.  Take two people, who for whatever reason, aren't able to relocate.  The only real difference between their situations is that one lives in a large city and one in a small village.  The former is obviously far more likely to find someone who they're compatible with.  Isn't that the very definition of "lucky"?


When I first met Darcy, I was in the middle of nowhere in Cornwall.  He was just outside London.  I had nothing around me so I was pro-active.  I brought people to me and brought me to others by co-ordinating a munch, create online communities and participating in forums like here, writing blogs and attending outside my 'zone'.  That wasn't luck, that was hard work and conscious effort.  Meeting Darcy, I don't see luck come into it and no, we didn't believe that it came down to being lucky enough to find someone else compatable.  We made it happen by being persistant, having the same goals(even if we were unable to relocate at the time) and being fantastically brilliant people.  You have to be aware to let this so called 'luck' to get through.  Placing it on good or bad luck makes personal responsibility void.  We make our own life- or some people seem to call it luck.

 
Even now, we both make a conscious effort to meet people both BDSM wise and other - we attend mashups, go to gigs and actually talk to people.  We went to see Numan the other weekend and ended up talking and laughing to two guys we met on the bus just because we made an effort.  We meet people from here - making the effort to do exactly what we claim we will do.  If we say we want and will meet up with you, we do it.  But it's not luck, it's persistance and follow-through.

 
the.dark.




eyesopened -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 5:31:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

one of the key problems is people do not take responsibility


Take responsibility for what?  If everyone takes responsibility for themselves how is that a problem?




dawntreader -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 7:16:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I totally get what you are saying and agree.  I love the last paragraph actually - it rocks for me because I identified with it so well - and still do.  People miss so many great or potential moments of any length because they get so fixed.  If I had been fixed, reality is that I would not be in the relationship I am today.  the.dark.

 
And I identify with this totally!  I see so many people put limitations and qualifiers on their happiness that I wonder if they really want to be happy.  Instead of saying "Once I achieve this, that, and the other thing, I can be happy."  why not just say "I choose to be happy right now."  Instead of saying "I can only be with someone who has X, Y, and Z", why not just say "I choose relationships that support my relationship goals"? 
 
See, the problem I have with the OP is that is assumes everyone has the same relationship goals as the originator of this thread.  For nearly a decade I did not want a relationship that had responsibility and commitment attached to it.  By knowing and communicating my relationship goals, I've always had the relationships I wanted.


Ok girls, i am jumping in this boat with ya'll [:)]




natasha66 -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 7:26:43 AM)

I as an individual have to take responsibility for my own happiness.  As many have said, it's an inside job.  Anything outside of myself (ie a relationship) can be a bonus, and add to my contentment and happiness.  It's NOT their job to make me happy.  That responsibility lies solely with me.  Just my opinion.




RCdc -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 7:26:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
Ok girls, i am jumping in this boat with ya'll [:)]


As long as celine dion doesn't start playing, I'm there.[:D]
 
the.dark.




kidwithknife -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 8:24:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Thanks for the input I appriciate it.
I like the concept of 'artistically' - could you expand on that at all?


I'll spin off a new thread on theatricalitiy/art and BDSM soon- hopefully by the end of today.  As that would be getting into issues that are both linked to my academic field and also one of my pet topics, my complete inability to discuss topics briefly would be increased tenfold.  And writing an off-topic thesis strikes me as somewhat unfair on the OP.
 
quote:


When I first met Darcy, I was in the middle of nowhere in Cornwall.  He was just outside London.  I had nothing around me so I was pro-active.  I brought people to me and brought me to others by co-ordinating a munch, create online communities and participating in forums like here, writing blogs and attending outside my 'zone'.  That wasn't luck, that was hard work and conscious effort.  Meeting Darcy, I don't see luck come into it and no, we didn't believe that it came down to being lucky enough to find someone else compatable.  We made it happen by being persistant, having the same goals(even if we were unable to relocate at the time) and being fantastically brilliant people.  You have to be aware to let this so called 'luck' to get through.  Placing it on good or bad luck makes personal responsibility void.  We make our own life- or some people seem to call it luck.

 
Even now, we both make a conscious effort to meet people both BDSM wise and other - we attend mashups, go to gigs and actually talk to people.  We went to see Numan the other weekend and ended up talking and laughing to two guys we met on the bus just because we made an effort.  We meet people from here - making the effort to do exactly what we claim we will do.  If we say we want and will meet up with you, we do it.  But it's not luck, it's persistance and follow-through.


I don't think that a belief in "luck" and "personal responsibility" are necessarily exclusive.

On one hand, as the example of you and Darcy shows very well, you don't have to have the luck to bump into the right person to make things work.  While you living in the same town would have been good luck, it was effort and hard slog that meant that didn't matter.

On the other hand, you can be the luckiest person in the world If you don't have the courage to grasp the opportunity it presents you with both hands, it'll do you no good at all.

So it's not that I believe that luck absolves us from responsibility for our actions.  I don't believe we always create our own luck either.  But we're certainly responsible for whether we take advantage of our good fortune.  Or whether we escape our bad.

To give a counterexample to yours though.

Knifeplay isn't particuarly my kink.  (Yes, I'm aware that puts me in the running for most poorly chosen username ever).  However, I have no issues with it either.  So, theoretically, if I met someone who was great in lots of ways, but knifeplay was very important to them, it really wouldn't be a problem.

In reality however, it would be a massive one.  Because I'm actually dyspraxic.  Which is a disability with varying effects.  In my case, it's mainly my physical co-ordination and spatial awareness that's affected.  Add to that a sizeable degree of (unrelated to my disability) physical strength.  Basically, I'm the Hulk.  I suspect you can see where the problem arises.  For me to do any kind of knife play would be as dangerous as chainsaw play for most people.

Now, I'm not in any way distraught about this.  And I'd hope it's obvious that I'm not the kind of person who mentions this kind of thing for sympathy.  Let alone *spits* pity.  But it's an accident of birth that could potentially affect compatibility with someone who has that as an important part of their preferences.  I think that's reasonable to see as bad luck.  However, it obviously wouldn't be reasonable for me to see it as anything other than minor.  Moping around about how my disability "ruins my chances of a relationship" would be the kind of denial of personal responsibility we both object to.




RCdc -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 9:18:18 AM)

At the risk of hijacking the thread (sorry LB) I wanted to say I am really looking forward to this new thread you are going to spin-off.
 
I would love to see one on dyspraxia too, but that might be asking too much.[:)]
My son was diagniosed as dyspraxic when he was younger.  Now, I am unsure that it was the correct diagnosis for him (I believe it was more that he was struggling with being lefthanded) - it's the first time I have seen someone bring this up in BDSM 'realms'.
 
I've enjoyed this, thanks very much.
 
the.dark.




LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Positive Relationshkips (9/17/2008 8:58:35 PM)

it is ok anything that spins thought is really never a bad thing   




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