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ORIGINAL: masterforRT

There's nothing wrong with it-as long as you don't let it become abusive. Playing is great- but sometimes the line can be very thin between the two.

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...we're not all leaders...

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave has never heard of a situation where one would have to go through a period of time dominating and controlling others, in order to be viewed as capable of submission or slavery...but the other way around, isn't that uncommon.  this slave believes that it contributes to the negative attitude that submission or servitude is something one suffers through, as a means to an end, or enjoys situationally, until they return to their otherwise dominant persona.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave has never heard of a situation where one would have to go through a period of time dominating and controlling others, in order to be viewed as capable of submission or slavery...but the other way around, isn't that uncommon.  this slave believes that it contributes to the negative attitude that submission or servitude is something one suffers through, as a means to an end, or enjoys situationally, until they return to their otherwise dominant persona.

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...As you said, Beth, our culture really only expresses value for the self-starter (although our educational system is programmed to create sheep... explain that...)

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ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Society doesn't like those who are perceived as "weak."  It is clear, not only on these boards, in this "lifestyle", but in life in general.  There seems to be this certain level of achievement we all must reach - whether financially, independently, emotionally, or whatever - that, until we reach it, we have not garnered the respect of others. 

This is seen on the boards here all the time.  There are several women here who are enslaved and who have my sincere respect, but who might fit into that ever popular criticism of "doormat" or "robot" or whatever else the better-thans seem to want to call it.  The fact is, there are all kinds of people in this world.  We might not want to live the way others do, but I never did understand the need to hurl insults at someone who will do whatever his/her owner wants, or who is perfectly happy to be utterly submissive in all things and fully dependent on the owner.  Being dependent or less emotionally strong/independent (for lack of a better word) does not mean being stupid, or less valuable a human being.  I'm pretty sure if a dependent slave's owner went away tomorrow, survival instincts would kick in and the slave would figure out a way to get by.  Sometimes people act as though the slave would probably just sit on the floor until he/she either starved or until someone else came to his/her rescue.

In my opinion, however, this does not make the slave unaccountable for being in whatever position he/she ends up in.  But the lack of compassion for those who might think or live differently is a pity to me.  We're all weak in something, after all.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

... For years, I've been hearing people making the "being a slave/submissive/whatever doesn't mean we're -weak- or trying to escape decisionmaking/living." statements. I've heard almost every submissive-type for the last few years putting themselves into that "pocket".

...However, there is another type of servant out there -- the person who yields because xhe -doesn't- want to make decisions, and -doesn't- want to have to be strong or deal with crises or direct hir own life. Let's face it -- we're not all leaders.

... I think that I can really appreciate that there really is nothing -wrong- with NOT being a self-directed servant... with being happy and willing to be led, sheltered, and protected.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
So many people in this community seem to act like there is something -wrong- with a person recognizing that xhe wants someone to fight hir battles for hir, and care for hir, and manage hir life for hir. I remember jumping on this bandwagon (especially as one of those self-motivated, self-directed servants)... but now, I think that I can really appreciate that there really is nothing -wrong- with NOT being a self-directed servant... with being happy and willing to be led, sheltered, and protected. Personally, I wouldn't turn a servant who exhibited these properties away... and there are days that I think that I'd actually -prefer- a servant who came to me and honestly said "I don't want to run my life. I don't want control... I'll serve you in any way you need me to, but I am -happy- not being 'the strong one". Yes, it requires more of me to keep that kind of servant, because I have to be the strength in the relationship, but I have to ask myself "if I can't handle that, what kind of leadership do I actually -provide- as a dominant?" I actually look forward to having the servant who truly -needs- me... to fight his battles, to stand up for him when he has been mistreated by outsiders, to guide his steps and to help him be comfortable with himself -- as a vulnerable individual, and as a "kept one" who honestly recognizes that as a basic need in himself..

I welcome your thoughts.

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP
The problem is that if the relationship ends, the sub may no longer be able to take care of themselves. It wasn't uncommon a generation ago for men to handle all the money, which worked until a man died at 71 leaving an elderly widow who didn't know how to balance a checkbook, had no idea how to make a budget, pay a bill etc. In many cases the widows literally didn't know where the money was; what bank, annuity, mutual fund, life insurance etc. Nobody should be left that badly off.

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ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

It is possible to be both, you know. 

Just because I'm submissive doesn't mean I'm weak or trying to escape decision-making.  I'm perfectly capable of being responsible for myself and being a leader.  I'm actually a pretty darn good leader, too.

However, just because I'm capable doesn't mean it's my preference.  I'm perfectly happy being led, sheltered and protected by Firm and he gains the benefit of my "capable" skills, however he wants to use them.

While I haven't specifically asked him, I would hazard a guess that it also means at least a little bit to Firm that I am his because of choice and not because I just needed someone.  The trust and respect that I have placed in him is a great compliment to his abilities.  Because I don't need him to lead, shelter and protect me, it evidences how greatly I admire him and his abilities that I do choose to defer to him.