RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (Full Version)

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Vendaval -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/24/2008 9:28:26 PM)

I say fire the efficiency experts and start over with a new game plan.


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Ever notice that "efficiency experts" never want to do the things that they want "others" to do?




philosophy -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/24/2008 10:23:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I say fire the efficiency experts and start over with a new game plan.


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Ever notice that "efficiency experts" never want to do the things that they want "others" to do?



...inefficiency experts! Where do i sign up?




Vendaval -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/24/2008 10:26:18 PM)

Start with the State Legislature and aspire to higher and better paid positions as a "public servant".  [X(]




TheUtopian -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/24/2008 11:07:25 PM)

There is a GREAT factual program with regard to the current economic crisis on the '' Coast to Coast AM '' radio show tonight. Goes into both inflationary and the onrushing deflationary scenarios.

I strongly recommend listening to this program if you're a bit foggy and want to better understand this crisis. The program has over 500 affiliates, so no matter where you are at in the USA/Canada you should have no problem dialing it in.

The first hour is the important one.....and it replays at 1:00 AM pacific, 3:00 AM central and 4:00 AM eastern.







- R




Vendaval -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/24/2008 11:09:54 PM)

Thanks for that bit of radio info.




corysub -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/25/2008 12:15:58 AM)

This implosion of our financial system started in three states, California, Florida and Nevada.  I remember visiting friends in Santa Monia ten years ago and shook my head in disbelief seeing cape cod type homes that sold in New York at the time for maybe $250,000 - $300,000 in nice areas selling for twice that in Cali.  Some people thought of their homes as "trading vehicles" to own for a year or so and than to be sold at a big profit to buy an even bigger home and repeat the same game.  It was a fun filled time for people out there.  You bought a house, three to six months later it was up ten percent or more, so you re-fi'd the house and put in the pool.
Mortgage money was plentiful with the only qualification it seemed that you be alive at the closing!

Fast foward to a few years ago.  Interest rates moved up, the over-speculation in real estate attracted speculation, and the TV was full of shows on "flipping houses", buying with "no money down" and, by the way, you only have to pay the interest on an adjustable three year ARP. And than...and than it started to "hit the fan".  Mortgage rates "reset" to not only capture the true interest rate, but mortgages reflected the "true cost" of the original loan with "accumulated" annual interest added to princaple owed.  Hundreds of thousands of people had purchased homes well-above their income levels allowed, more people who had speculated on buying two or three condo's as they were being built in order to flip them before they were completed found themselves having to own these properties in an over-built real estate environment...and the houses built on the "sand of poor finance" collapsed like those in a hurricane built on the water.  Add to all this the fact that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were allowed to insure these "sub-prime" loans in the late 1990's and made the greedy banks, greedy brokers, and greedy Wall Street Investment Banks put a gun to peoples heads to buy this real estate and leveraged their balance sheets where there was only 5% of equity capital supporting their portfolio of MBS's., And there you are... you have now a situation of the sun shining through a magnifying glass focused on trillion of gallons of gasoline.  Investors do not want to buy this paper of bundled mortgages, even though the majority of mortgages are not in foreclosure the " bad apples in the barrel" made the entire mortgage backed market toxic.

We have several choices as a country.  There is a $700,000,000 plan on the table from the administration that needs to strengthened with over-sight and transparancy. There is political posturing going on now in front of TV cameras from politicians on both sides of the aisle who share as much blame for this explosive and possibly terminal sickness in our financial system as the idiots who speculated in real estate from individuals to institutions.  For all of our good, a deal better be ironed out within the next few days.

We are sitting on the worst problem to face every citizen since the depression.  Should Congress come up with a Bill that only partially addresses the problem, should Congress not come to an agreement on legislation or hang new programs such as aid to foreclosed homeowners, aid for  inner city improvements, and on and on...world-wide investor confidence will be shaken and next week could well be the beginning of the end for hard working, tax paying, mortgage paying people across the country. 

Banks could see a run for cash, banks will close even with FDIC insured deposits, commercial paper rates would go through the roof and your company will not be able to finance inventory, salaries, vendor bills, and on and on.  Interest rates such as Libor vs $ are already seeing twenty year highs. People will soon see their jobs begin to evaporate and...I don't even want to think about "and"....or "end"  "The End" of dreams.

By the way, members of Congress will still have their jobs after you have lost your job or your business.  After all, we don't have royalty in this country and we need those 435 people in the House and 100 in the Senate, along with all their courtesans and foot warmers. 







cjan -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/25/2008 6:35:57 AM)

corysub, I rarely agree with your opinions on politics but I do agree with your assesment of the financial chaos that will ensue if a workable solution is not enacted to deal with the current financial crisis. Btw, it will become a global crisis in this global economy.

Calling it a "bailout" puts the focus , incorrectly, on a bailout of financial institutions.  The situation is far more complex than that.  The "bailout" is , instead, an investment in America's (our)  present and future  economic survival.  A failure to find  a workable solution will result in massive bank closures, a virtually complete drying up of credit, resultant massive  business failures and  30% unemployment. It's not the rich that will suffer. They  will continue to send their kids to college,  live in their homes and drive  new cars. The rich don't live on credit. They will pay their American Express bills at the end of each month as they always have.

It disturbs me that polls show that only 30% of the American public support a "bailout". However, it doesn't surprise me. The U.S. public is , generally, uninformed and, therefore, ignorant. It is OUR boat that is foundering, folks. I suggest we all grab a container and start "bailing", or we will be standing on street corners with those empty tin cups.




philosophy -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/25/2008 9:54:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

It disturbs me that polls show that only 30% of the American public support a "bailout". However, it doesn't surprise me. The U.S. public is , generally, uninformed and, therefore, ignorant. It is OUR boat that is foundering, folks. I suggest we all grab a container and start "bailing", or we will be standing on street corners with those empty tin cups.



....i'm not so sure that it's just bland ignorance behind that public lack of support. The dominant paradigm in the US political landscape is a flat dislike of federal intervention. Party after party has talked of the need for small government etc.....for instance, the debate about a nationalised health service is usually answered by a statement that 'would you want this bunch of idiots deciding how you get health care?'. Now, apparently, things have changed......instead of being the idiots that US voters don't want to trust with health care, they are being cast as the non-idiots who'll sort out the financial crash. It's a mixed message.




cjan -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/25/2008 10:15:35 AM)

philosophy, do you think that federal intervention at times such as the last depression or when robber barons built their wealth before anti-trust laws was innapropriate ?

Federal intervention and regulation of capitalism run amock, ironic as it may seem, is necessary in order to preserve it. This is not economic theory, it has been proven by history.

The ignorance I referred to was a profound disinterst in understanding matters that directly affect each and everyone of us. When will Americans stop making uninformed decisions based on headlines, news bites, political ads and propaganda and , finally, vote and act in their own best intersts ?




philosophy -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/25/2008 10:22:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

philosophy, do you think that federal intervention at times such as the last depression or when robber barons built their wealth before anti-trust laws was innapropriate ?


...my grasp of US history is far from perfect, so i can;t answer to the specifics of the situations you allude to. However, as i don't buy into the axiom that central government is bad, then if it was necessary i'm all for it.

quote:

Federal intervention and regulation of capitalism run amock, ironic as it may seem, is necessary in order to preserve it. This is not economic theory, it has been proven by history.


...again, i don't necessarily disagree.

quote:

The ignorance I referred to was a profound disinterst in understanding matters that directly affect each and everyone of us.


...that's a far bigger matter than mere economics. The average US citizen is less well informed about the rest of the world than the average, say, UK citizen.

quote:

When will Americans stop making uninformed decisions based on headlines, news bites, political ads and propaganda and , finally, vote and act in their own best intersts ?


......when ideology is less important than pragmatism. However, some people see this $700 gazilion buy out, and then wonder if money is there to bail out the financial system why isn't it there for that working poor family down the road's medical expenses.




slvemike4u -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/25/2008 12:49:26 PM)

We are sitting on the worst problem to face every citizen since the depression.  Should Congress come up with a Bill that only partially addresses the problem, should Congress not come to an agreement on legislation or hang new programs such as aid to foreclosed homeowners, aid for  inner city improvements, and on and on...world-wide investor confidence will be shaken and next week could well be the beginning of the end for hard working, tax paying, mortgage paying people across the country. 
____________________________________________________________________________________
So Corysub it is okay with you if the bill passes with no provision for individual homeowners in danger of foreclosure,while bailing out the fat cats and the bankers on Wall Street.Tell me please why this class of Americans deserve govermental relief and the other class doesn't...I am truly interested to hear your justification for helping the one while leavingthe other to the fate of the "free market"..




farglebargle -> RE: US voters in agreement, economy priority #1 (9/25/2008 3:32:50 PM)

http://docs.google.com/TeamPresent?docid=ddp4zq7n_0cdjsr4fn&skipauth=true&pli=1

Here's a Google Document explaining the Subprime mess in 45 slides.




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