Question on Christian post??? (Full Version)

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SwampFox -> Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 4:33:45 PM)

OK, I know I'm new here, but I could've sworn there was a post here yesterday kind of mocking Christians. The poster, chaingang or chain something (not even sure of his handle), was calling them "Xtians" or something of that sort. I didn't have time to reply yesterday but wanted to do so now. But I cann't find it anywhere today. Anyone know where it was moved to? What am I doing wrong? Maybe I'm in the wrong area, but I cann't find it anywhere else either.

Thanks for any help,

SwampFox




sub4hire -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 4:38:14 PM)

I remember the post. I didn't read it. It was in this section and you are correct I don't see it here either. The only other area the mods would have moved it to is the stupidity section and I don't see it there either.

So, I would say it was removed because someone was flaming someone.




imtempting -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 5:15:52 PM)

Religious topics usually walk a fine line on many forums and are harshly moderated as flames start very easy in them.




MHOO314 -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 5:47:12 PM)

leave it alone




ModeratorEleven -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 5:50:28 PM)

Religious threads are moderated the same as all other threads. The one in question was pulled because the OP was unable to make his point without using numerous gratuitous insults which denigrated a rather large number of people.

XI




SwampFox -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 5:51:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

I remember the post. I didn't read it. It was in this section and you are correct I don't see it here either. The only other area the mods would have moved it to is the stupidity section and I don't see it there either.

So, I would say it was removed because someone was flaming someone.



Whew, so I'm not going senile after all. Thanks sub4hire. I found the search function and did a search on "Xtian" and found this in a different thread by chaingang (I was right about the handle too):

quote:

BTW, I have every right to think Xtians are hilarious idiots.


I still cann't find the post I was referring to though, so it must have been removed like you thought. I agree about it belonging in the stupidity section.

Wow!!! 3526 posts already & I'm only on number 3. Looks like you're an old pro at this (I don't mean old years wise. I've got you beat by more than a few in that respect.) <trying to make a smilie here but it doesn't seem to want to work for me>

quote:

Religious topics usually walk a fine line on many forums and are harshly moderated as flames start very easy in them.



Guess I'll let sleeping dogs lie then (or is it lay?) <smilie again>


Thanks again sub4hire & imtempting,

SwampFox






SwampFox -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 6:13:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ModeratorEleven

Religious threads are moderated the same as all other threads. The one in question was pulled because the OP was unable to make his point without using numerous gratuitous insults which denigrated a rather large number of people.

XI


Thanks ModeratorEleven & MHO314 (that's my area code btw). I promise I'll behave myself here. <still cann't get the smilie to work here though. I click on it & nothing happens> I'm all the way up to 4 posts now though.

SwampFox




IronBear -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 7:28:38 PM)

It is a pity that some cant control themselves from flaming at times. I'd love to see a thread on how people view the Christmas celebrations and what other cultures do at this time of the year (if they do anything)..... Still perhaps the human race will eventuall grow up enough to have enjoyable discussions without taking the micky out of everythinh they either dont understand or dont agree with.. I wont keep alive waiting for it to happen though.......




imtempting -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 8:11:40 PM)

Then religious threads should be moderated more harshly here. These are the threads that start flaming if left un-attended.




ModeratorEleven -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 8:23:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

Then religious threads should be moderated more harshly here.

We'd like to hand out public beatings but the admins think that's being *too* harsh. Go figure. We're just trying to find a happy medium [;)]

quote:

These are the threads that start flaming if left un-attended.

No threads here are left unattended.

XI




maybemaybenot -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 9:26:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

It is a pity that some cant control themselves from flaming at times. I'd love to see a thread on how people view the Christmas celebrations and what other cultures do at this time of the year (if they do anything)..... Still perhaps the human race will eventuall grow up enough to have enjoyable discussions without taking the micky out of everythinh they either dont understand or dont agree with.. I wont keep alive waiting for it to happen though.......


IronBear:

I relplied to that thread this Am.. and in it I did discuss what Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists do to publically celebrate their holidays. I would be happy to e mail you if you are interested.

In deference to the Mods and the tone the thread took on, I will not post it here.
I am one of the ones who was insulted and stated so. Not at the discussion, at one particular inference. And I also made a smart ass comment at the end of my post.

My apologies to the Mods if my reply was seen as flaming. I fully admit my last sentence was meant to be sarcastic.

~mbmbn~




slavejali -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 9:31:12 PM)

i think its so silly how people get all spazzed out over other peoples beliefs.




imtempting -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 10:39:33 PM)

Ill remember that and use it to my defense if I get flamed and its not attended to promptly.




sub4hire -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/2/2005 10:51:17 PM)

quote:

Wow!!! 3526 posts already & I'm only on number 3. Looks like you're an old pro at this (I don't mean old years wise. I've got you beat by more than a few in that respect.) <trying to make a smilie here but it doesn't seem to want to work for me>


Well I've been here since day one of the message boards. So, that helps me a lot. A good friend who is a board member for Black Rose had told me about collarme. I registered at the time because he had. The day I saw the message boards I came over here and been here since. Seen a lot of people come and go. Probably seen the same question at least 50 times over...or questions I should say. Flame wars as well as good friends meeting.

And for the smile...just click on one of them on the message when you are composing it.




anthrosub -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/3/2005 7:35:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

i think its so silly how people get all spazzed out over other peoples beliefs.


What people believe is an integral part of their identity. So when something challenges their identity they react. The ego is an extremely passionate and insidious part of a human being. A friend of mine (and a Christian) once said, "The ego is such a bastard, it would rather die than change." and I can see his point.

It's extremely difficult to talk about differences in belief without getting accused of being on a crusade. Even if all parties enter into a discussion knowing differences will be put on the table, a point is reached where emotions start to rise. There's something about having your foundation shaken that pushes people's buttons regardless of the motive. I think this is especially characteristic of Christians, mainly because Christianity (and all its subsets) is the only religion in the world that practices evangelism. So, ironically they are getting what they are giving (but don't appreciate it).

I find the topic of religion fascinating because it's a fundamental part of how people see themselves and the world around them. I like to learn how people develop their sense of reality and in doing so, have learned a lot about how religions come to be. In many ways they go hand in hand. But if someone is so vested in their belief that all they can do is cry "victim" when a discussion focuses on what they believe, then you can't contrast and compare. The whole thing goes dead in the water.

anthrosub




MHOO314 -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/3/2005 7:42:52 AM)

smiles actually I am Mistress Hathor and the numbers mean nothing more than the date I created My yahoo profile--but 314 means Missouri, I moved from there 6 years ago---smiles




Chaingang -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/3/2005 7:57:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ModeratorEleven
Religious threads are moderated the same as all other threads. The one in question was pulled because the OP was unable to make his point without using numerous gratuitous insults which denigrated a rather large number of people.


That's unfair. I did take one jab at Christians generally which I admitted to - but the rest was pretty fair and history based I thought. The only other thing I can think of is what I said about the Puritans - which I think was was fair given the historical context that I related.

Xtians is not a term of disparagement. People only reveal their own ignorance if they think it is one. I covered this in the now deleted thread.




Amaros -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/3/2005 8:27:30 AM)

Good post Anthrosub. As far as I'm aware, "Xian", or "Xtian" is merely a term for generic Christian, ro Christianlike ideologies, as the number of Christian churches, sects, cults, and various ofshoots, most of whom differ bitterly over dogmatic minutia is truely boggling.

In any case, I believe "Xian" is simply lumping all dogmatic and outspoken religious people under a single title, not exactly sure. I think it's post modernist expression, and not strictly intended to be disparaging - though perhaps it has come to posess that quality, simply by virtue of the fact that it is mostly the critics of Christian activism that use it.

Everyone is tiptoeing around the fact that there is definite friction between organized religion and and alternative sexual lfestyles: organized religion has felt licence to slander, persecute and even kill, from time to time, those they define as sexually devient throughout history - i.e., there's some bad blood there.

I've noted a few people in here identifying themselves as Christians in here, so it's perhpas a topic best left alone, although I imagine that given the nature of the organizing principle of this site, many of it's members have experienced persecution from organized religion - this is definitely the case with myself, and I am one of those who harbors some bitterness toward organized religion and it's activists, and that sense of self rightous entitlement with which many Christians online and off tends to set me off when I encounter it.

As far as I'm concerned, it's an ideology/philosophy on par any other ideology/philosophy, and not entitled to any automatic respect simply because it's adherents believe they deserve it - respect has to be earned, and with respect to the many variations of Christianity as mentioned above, and the many different sorts of people who identify with Christianity, it's on the shoulders of Christians, I believe, to behave themselves and not come down like Moses with the law - I'm a gnostic Christan myself, come by the hard way: I try not to hit anybody over the head with it; it's my personal choice, not permission to act like an ass, or have a chip on my shoulder.

The Greek "Christos" begins with the Greek letter "Chi", sybolized by "X", and has a long history of usage in Christianity - thus "Xtian", strictly speaking, is simply a shorthand version of "Christian", not an attempt to "X out" Christians, which doesn't seem to stop Xtians from being offended when they hear it. You're on the internet, if you're not sure, google it.

Being a Christian doesn't give you any special rights, and given organized religions ongoing, and very public attack on sexual variety, and even commonsense prophylactic measures, much of the automatic respect that Christians have perhaps been previously accorded has eroded - these are no longer strictly religious issues, they're political ones, and that's the price you pay for politicking: if you don't want to get muddy, don't jump in the puddle.

If any Christians in here do have any cogent thoughts on how they reconcile their religious principles with their sexual preferences, I'd be happy to hear them - it's not a problem for a gnostic, but as it's neither an organized religion nor a prosthletizing one, I'll refrain from expounding on it.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/3/2005 8:29:01 AM)

quote:

I find the topic of religion fascinating because it's a fundamental part of how people see themselves and the world around them.


anthro,
Sometimes even the professed non-religious are fascinating. For instance the new attention to renaming Christmas trees "holiday trees". Or the use of "happy holiday". Or Target avoiding the issue completely to the point of not allowing the Salvation Army to ring their bell and collect donations in front of their stores. As opposed to some of the serious personal freedom issues such as those recently pointed out in the "News" section; the ACLU has decided that identifying something as a Christmas Tree is worth spending their member's dollars fighting. Being the heathen, non-believer that I am doesn't preclude me from pointing out the obvious prioritizing problem this issue seems to represent. But a friend of mine had an observation that raised a good point.

Since the focus of the politically correct effort was in changing a label, and not the removal of the offending tree entirely; it poses a question. What other religions use a tree for their "holiday"? Jewish? I've heard rumor back in NY about the "Hanukkah Bush" present in many Jewish family homes with young children during this time of year. But have never seen it used in any Muslim, Buddhist, Shinto, Hindu, or any of their various sub-sets. Kwanzaa is an American created harvest festival citing African roots, but I don't believe there is a pine tree involved. No, the "tree" is uniquely Christian. However, some of the more fundamental Christians have a problem with it, perhaps rightly so.

As all "Christian" holidays. Christmas, or the timing of Christ's birth, was created to correspond with the "Pagan" winter solstice celebration. Early on, the Christian recruiters realized that to convert the heathen pagans it would be easier to not take away their holiday parties. The winter solstice was a BIG one, celebrating the shortest day of the year, and the subsequent growing length of days. The pine tree was the symbol of continuing life during the "dead of winter". It's green showed nature was still alive. The bottom line is the Christmas tree is as Christian as the Easter Bunny.

But my Jewish friend pointed out another issue. By making it a "Holiday Tree" it implies that it DOES have something to do with religions other than Christian. He didn't want to somehow have it considered that the Holiday Tree somehow recognized his Jewish faith. He also said that he was never offended by the Christmas reference, never got pissed when a a sales clerk said "Merry Christmas" at a store. I'd guess the other religions would feel the same way.

Meanwhile I extend best wishes for a "HAPPY FESTIVUS!!!" to ALL!




Amaros -> RE: Question on Christian post??? (12/3/2005 9:01:33 AM)

Whack job, heh. It is true most holidays have pagan origins, and Christianity is a syncretizing religion: the Catholic host ceremony is lifted almost straight out of Mithrism, Easter is co-opted from the fertility festival of the goddess Astarte, etc.

The concern is perhaps that the "meaning" is being stripped out of these holidays when their strict association with Christianity is questioned. On the contrary, most of these holidays were intimately tied to the rythms of nature, the solstices, the changing of the seasons, and were initiated by people whose lives were ruled by the rythms of nature.

Fertility rites in the spring: there are planting and harvesting festivals, and of course a big party in the winter, when you're about to get stuck in the house, and worst is about to hit - one can dispense charity in the form of gifts without bruising the pride of the recipient, or get things to pass the long, dreary months ahead, and the principle of sharing can be reified when it becomes most critical.

Halloween, according to Michalet, was originally held in the spring, as many people tended to die in wintertime, the old and physically ill, and the ground was too hard to bury them - a festival was needed to "let the ghosts out", and celebrate the "planting" of the dead - turning a death rite into a fertility rite and celebrating the completion of the cycle of nature.

Christmas has of course become the celebration of the turning over of the inventory, which is OK too I suppose. I think most tend to observe the traditional spirit of the holiday, whether they are implicitly aware of it or not, so I'm not sure it matters much what you call it.

Merry Festivus!




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