RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky?

RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (Full Version)

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SteelofUtah -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/3/2008 1:15:49 PM)
Howdy, I'm Steel. I am not LDS, I am However aware of your actual situation and understand the issues that you have in regard to this. No the Book of Mormon does not cover BDSM it does cover sexually wicked which is why a Bishop may tell you that you are acting against the Teachings of the Book of Mormon if you did practice. In the DAC you will find more information of what is and what is not okay. You will know that Plural Marriages were practiced even by Joseph Smith himself but Polyamory is not what is being discussed her. The Main issue you have to deal with is this S&M or D/s? If you Practice a Dominant Submissive Relationship with your Husband and practice Kinky sexual activities within the confines of your own marriage then you are doing nothing wrong you are simply pleasing your husband which the Bible and the BoM suggest all women should do and to some degree that it is thier purpose. When it comes to S&M you have a bigger issue If you are wanting your husband to beat you so that you can have carnal pleasure and it is based soely on your own desire and nothing more than you would be guilty of lustful and sinful desires, However if you do it because you enjoy it and you know that your husband enjoys it as well then you can rest assured that you are again serving your Husband in the ways a wife should. When the Kink becomes sinful desire then you have to roll back your faith and ask yourself if what you are doing is Moralely wrong. If you do not believe it is then I would suggest you having a conversation with your bishop and finding out how he feels about discussing marrital sexual conduct. TRUST ME ON THIS------ YOU WILL NOT BE THE FIRST NOR THE LAST. As for getting Sealed in the Temple I make this suggestion. Do you feel guilty going to Temple Now with what activities you engage in? If Not then you have no fear being Sealed in the Temple. The BoM and the DAC have MANY of the answers you seek if you are willing to research them. But the Bishop hears MANY THINGS like this on a daily basis I would not worry about being judged however I would also not use the Term BDSM or Master or Slave when talking to the Bishop I would discuss the things you like to do that you consider kinky as individual activities and ask the Bishop if he has any advice for you on if you are sinning or on how you could deal with your feelings. The LDS Church for all it's Strange Behavior in certain places is still just a church with people who have faith and like any faith when you do not know what to do and there is no strong line of Right or Wrong the church encourages you to decide for yourself. Hope that helps. If you need PM me and I'll give you My Number wqe live in St George. Steel

tweedydaddy -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/3/2008 3:49:41 PM)
I have an agonising "hands off" relationship with an exqusite lady from this church and she makes my head spin. I don't know what their policy about BDSM is, but I know what their attitude to adultery is, and it would be very messy if I were to consumate my desire for her.Whenever she is around I find my hands shaking. I find in her company, the most refined torment short of hell. The only thing keeping me from reaching out and touching her, short of the fact that I would be so excited that I think I would have a heart attack, is her complete piety and strict devotion to her religion. Thanks to a friend's wife she knows all about me, and still treats me with friendliness and respect. I often wonder if she aware that when she is there that my heart hammers like a kodo drummer and my blood feels like someone injected my heart with nitrous. LadyLove finds it absolutely hilarious that her bestial better half is consumed by a totally platonic friendship with a kind hearted angel of a woman who will never have the foggiest idea of the effect she has on him as he will never lay a claw on her. Sigh!

HornyToadsMI -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/3/2008 8:45:21 PM)
Sorry, I cant help from a religious point of view, but what I can add is that I believe that as long as we honor our spouse, and we live a good life, then there should be no issues. The problem lies when people hide behind their religion to excuse their behavior. So, if it were me, and the two of us were happy with our BDSM dynamic, then enjoy. I watched my church fall apart when our pastor had an affair with one of the ladies of the church. So, I have looked at things a little differently since. OP - dont try to find specific scripture - it wont exist. Follow your gut and your hearts, and it should be fine. There will always be those who condemn you, as you are different. :)

HornyToadsMI -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/3/2008 8:48:54 PM)
Steel - You are one awesome person. :) I always appreciate your posts, and learn lots. :) quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah Howdy, I'm Steel. I am not LDS, I am However aware of your actual situation and understand the issues that you have in regard to this. No the Book of Mormon does not cover BDSM it does cover sexually wicked which is why a Bishop may tell you that you are acting against the Teachings of the Book of Mormon if you did practice. In the DAC you will find more information of what is and what is not okay. You will know that Plural Marriages were practiced even by Joseph Smith himself but Polyamory is not what is being discussed her. The Main issue you have to deal with is this S&M or D/s? If you Practice a Dominant Submissive Relationship with your Husband and practice Kinky sexual activities within the confines of your own marriage then you are doing nothing wrong you are simply pleasing your husband which the Bible and the BoM suggest all women should do and to some degree that it is thier purpose. When it comes to S&M you have a bigger issue If you are wanting your husband to beat you so that you can have carnal pleasure and it is based soely on your own desire and nothing more than you would be guilty of lustful and sinful desires, However if you do it because you enjoy it and you know that your husband enjoys it as well then you can rest assured that you are again serving your Husband in the ways a wife should. When the Kink becomes sinful desire then you have to roll back your faith and ask yourself if what you are doing is Moralely wrong. If you do not believe it is then I would suggest you having a conversation with your bishop and finding out how he feels about discussing marrital sexual conduct. TRUST ME ON THIS------ YOU WILL NOT BE THE FIRST NOR THE LAST. As for getting Sealed in the Temple I make this suggestion. Do you feel guilty going to Temple Now with what activities you engage in? If Not then you have no fear being Sealed in the Temple. The BoM and the DAC have MANY of the answers you seek if you are willing to research them. But the Bishop hears MANY THINGS like this on a daily basis I would not worry about being judged however I would also not use the Term BDSM or Master or Slave when talking to the Bishop I would discuss the things you like to do that you consider kinky as individual activities and ask the Bishop if he has any advice for you on if you are sinning or on how you could deal with your feelings. The LDS Church for all it's Strange Behavior in certain places is still just a church with people who have faith and like any faith when you do not know what to do and there is no strong line of Right or Wrong the church encourages you to decide for yourself. Hope that helps. If you need PM me and I'll give you My Number wqe live in St George. Steel

rosanegra -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/4/2008 2:00:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah As for getting Sealed in the Temple I make this suggestion. Do you feel guilty going to Temple Now with what activities you engage in? If Not then you have no fear being Sealed in the Temple. Steel Actually, yes I would.. but not because of my sexual practices with my husband, nor our sexual desires.. more or less because currently I smoke, drink on occasion, and have not attended church, taken communion, or even really cared about religion for quite a while. It has been a very new thing, the feelings I've been having. I was pushed to this point by something that happened in my life that made me feel I needed to reach out to God for help again, and give faith another chance at helping me heal, as opposed to blaming God for everything that seemed to be going wrong. It was more or less a personal decision to attempt to seek out some answers for myself, followed by an absolutely mind-blowing experience that gave me a confirmation I never would have expected. So I guess that sort of clears that up... but again, it's my husband I am worried about. He's got the Mormon faith.. but I swear his guilt is like that of a Catholic. He has trouble separating things that can be pure and beautiful from other kinks that really in no way fit into his moral values. The problem is that there are still things in those realms that he wants, even though he believes (or perhaps knows, in the assumption that there really are things that God does not want for us) that they are not right. Sinful temptations, I suppose you might say, that are blended with things that do not, at least in my opinion, seem to trample upon his idea of right and wrong. I feel like his kinky side is like some deep dark secret he is afraid of, even though he knows it's what he wants.. rather than a part of him that I embrace and love about him, and wish he'd act on more. I think it is that he is afraid of the temptations it might put in his way, even though it is possible to have aspects of this lifestyle without being sinful in any way, shape, or form. Of course.. I've only recently come to the point that any of this matters, and I have always had slightly more liberal views on just about... well.. everything, than he has. There are things I would have done even a week ago that I am rethinking as of now, because of this very fresh and recent experience that I had. Even kinky things... Things I still think about doing that on a moral level do not fit with some beliefs I have begun to see as truthful and beautiful. I mean.. I've suppose I've always had a fairly strong moral backbone, but I also refuse to condemn others for the things that they do, because who am I to judge what is wrong or right for somebody else. I am one of those, 'freedom to choose in all things that allow others the ability to live their lives happily," types. Like.. I would never have an abortion unless my life was almost certainly jeopardized by continuing with the pregnancy. But I am still pro-choice, because who am I to make that decision for someone else? The people who can't let it be up to an individual are harping on things that they don't have much, if any, power to change on any major level.. but even the Mormon church has adopted the philosophy that in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the life of the mother, abortion is an acceptable (even if not preferred) measure. I don't know.. a lot of my ideas about life, and the way the world works, aren't really entirely in fitting with any church doctrine. Still.. I believe in so much of it at this point.. does that mean I need to change, or does it mean I need to just accept that I am who I am and the only thing I can do is live my life the way I feel God has directed me to? And if I don't necessarily agree with or practice every single value of the LDS church, does that make me unfit to enter the temple? Perhaps my opinions on certain things will change as I progress spiritually but... for instance.. masturbation. Right now, my husband is deployed. I am, admittedly, a fairly sexual person. Is it masturbation if I am pleasing myself while he is pleasing himself because we cannot do it for each other? Can the church really say it is wrong for us to do that? I mean, I understand the entire concept of lovemaking being meant for the purpose of procreation (although the church has taken a slightly softer stance on that in recent years because yes, it is also a bonding "ritual" of sorts), but let's just look at it from a scientific standpoint. A woman having an orgasm with her husband increases the odds of the act of lovemaking to result in conception. A woman who masturbates becomes more relaxed and better able to have that release during lovemaking.. Therefore, masturbation could, in theory, make attempts at procreation MORE successful, and makes that experience with her husband more enjoyable for both of them (because let's face it, what man doesn't enjoy being able to do that to his woman). In particular, lovemaking with my husband tends to be more enjoyable for both of us when he has masturbated too, because it lasts longer, enabling both of us to enjoy the experience longer.. That closeness and intimacy is definitely more fulfilling over a 30 minute period than it is over a 30 second period. Also, when he wants me to please myself and gives me permission to feel that physical ecstasy, it is emotional ecstasy for both of us. I enjoy the feeling of having my most intimate reactions in his hands, and he enjoys the fact that I am willing to allow him that control over me. He enjoys the sound of it, the look on my face, the completely overwhelming feeling of closeness that even that gives us. The argument the church makes against masturbation is that it is selfishly seeking your own pleasure as opposed to seeking out the pleasure of your mate... I do not, however, see it as an entirely selfish act, though I do agree that to some degree it is. Yes, masturbating may make me feel good.. but it also makes my husband feel good to know that I feel good.. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to do it even if he didn't enjoy it so much... perhaps that is a bit morally misguided... but at the same time, I also have to ask.. why would God give us the tools and abilities to make ourselves feel that way if he didn't want us to use them? So far, he hasn't given me an answer on that one. Maybe that will change. I don't know.. I guess that is just the example of some of the conflicts that I am beginning to feel. I get the word of wisdom.. that makes sense to me. I know I shouldn't do things that are BAD for my body for the sheer enjoyment of doing them.. but I have to ask myself where that line gets drawn. What is so sinful about wanting to enjoy certain things in life that are not in the slightest bit harmful to others OR myself. I don't know.. I guess I have a lot of researching, reading, and soul-searching to do.. and yes, maybe some questions to ask, too. But a lot of you have given me a lot to ponder on and I appreciate it. I guess I'll find out over the next year, or couple of years even, whether or not this is the direction I need to be taking. Hopefully as I start opening up and praying more, I'll get more answers. I'm really not trying to justify behaviors I have that are morally unacceptable.. I just figure if God gave me this brain, he wants me to use it, right? I don't think my logic is infallible, but I do think it is pretty solid. So I guess getting my brain and heart in the right place, and in agreement with each other, is a step in the right direction. Wish me luck, keep me in your prayers, or whatever it is that you personally do to attempt to help people get where they need to be. I appreciate it all. - rosa

scarlethiney -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/4/2008 6:29:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rosanegra Ask my church about something I consider to be highly personal regarding my sex life and my marriage? To ask other kinky people is one thing. To ask someone who may be predisposed to judge me for even asking the question, regardless of what I do with the answer? I think not. Frankly, I am looking for answers that go deeper than what the church has to say.. I am looking for answers regarding the scriptures, and how to extrapolate whether or not it is acceptable for my husband and I to have that relationship and still be able to, in good conscience, and in good faith, enter the temple. I do not like my religion spoon-fed down my throat from someone who doesn't know what is in my heart. It is a personal thing, whether or not I feel right continuing to live this lifestyle, and whether or not I feel God has given me his blessing. Hence, I am looking for answers from other kinky people who may have figured them out for themselves as well.. Why are these forums not here if not to help us find guidance and support from others? Whether or not "God, your "Angels" or whomever you view as your higher power has given you a blessing is something only you can decide in the end. It matters not what the church (I can imagine what they would think) or any one else thinks but what resonates for you and your husband. After all this is about your relationship, your values and your views. scarlet

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/4/2008 9:10:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rosanegra Ask my church about something I consider to be highly personal regarding my sex life and my marriage? To ask other kinky people is one thing. To ask someone who may be predisposed to judge me for even asking the question, regardless of what I do with the answer? I think not. Frankly, I am looking for answers that go deeper than what the church has to say.. I am looking for answers regarding the scriptures, and how to extrapolate whether or not it is acceptable for my husband and I to have that relationship and still be able to, in good conscience, and in good faith, enter the temple. I do not like my religion spoon-fed down my throat from someone who doesn't know what is in my heart. It is a personal thing, whether or not I feel right continuing to live this lifestyle, and whether or not I feel God has given me his blessing. Hence, I am looking for answers from other kinky people who may have figured them out for themselves as well.. Why are these forums not here if not to help us find guidance and support from others? The interpretation of scripture as it applies to your religion's tenets is the purview of your church's elders and clergy. If you feel that you cannot go to them (even elders in a different city/town/congregation than the one you attend) with your questions, it seems to me that you already -have- the answer to your question. If you are going to feel guilt just -asking- about your concerns, then clearly, you must have some sense that what you are asking about is going to be 'wrong' in the eyes of your church's doctrine. Otherwise, there would be no reason to presume guilt when approaching your elders or clergy about an issue. Just as a comparison, suppose you were having problems with -regular- sexual and familial issues surrounding your marriage. The first line of support is almost -always- one's spiritual leader or the elders of one's church for the counseling necessary to guide one through these situations. Therefore, reluctance to address a perceived problem with one's relationship regarding 'outre' practices surely comes from the perception that one already -knows- the answer, and yet is trying to find a way to slip past the "dogs that guard the gate". If this isn't the case, then there is absolutely -no- reason not to get the proper interpretations directly from the "horse's mouth", so to speak, by choosing clergy or elders within your church's framework who are sufficiently skilled in scriptural interpretation of matters according to church tenets that you will have an accurate answer on which to base your decision. No one else, untrained in interpretation of -your- church's tenets and scriptural doctrines, is technically qualified to answer your questions, regardless of how much you wish that were not the case. Also, I would suggest that your -husband- bring this up with the elders/clergy, since it is my understanding that the male head of the household is the one to whom the Mormon god actually listens, and any thing else is supposed to go through that male intermediary, including questions of doctrine. Calla Firestorm

rosanegra -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/4/2008 1:58:08 PM)
Here is the problem.. clergy are human beings. They therefore filter things through human minds, with human hang-ups and shortsightedness, even while they may be inspired by God. I may get three different answers from three different clergy. I am not trying to satisfy the conscience of someone else, but my own. Also, I quite resent the fact that you seem to think the "Mormon God" (who is the very same God that every Christian believes in, regardless of some of the things the Mormons believe that God has said that other denominations of Christianity do not) only listens to men. Yes, men are a part of the priesthood, and women are not.. this is something that has caused me concern, and trust me I'm praying on it, but women do have an equal stance in the church. You see, the Mormon church places family at the forefront of their values. Women are viewed as the ones who primarily care for and nurture the family.. making their role in the church just as important as the role of any man.. and making the guidance of God just as important a part of their lives as any man. edit: If I had to go through a man to find out all of the answers to all of the questions I want to ask God, I may well never ask some very important questions. I'm sure this is true of every human being, male or female. edit: OH! Furthermore, if the clergy had all the answers, I could just ask my husband! He's an ordained elder! Just because you are a member of the priesthood does NOT mean that you have all the answers. Only God does.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/4/2008 2:41:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rosanegra Here is the problem.. clergy are human beings. They therefore filter things through human minds, with human hang-ups and shortsightedness, even while they may be inspired by God. I may get three different answers from three different clergy. I am not trying to satisfy the conscience of someone else, but my own. Also, I quite resent the fact that you seem to think the "Mormon God" (who is the very same God that every Christian believes in, regardless of some of the things the Mormons believe that God has said that other denominations of Christianity do not) only listens to men. Yes, men are a part of the priesthood, and women are not.. this is something that has caused me concern, and trust me I'm praying on it, but women do have an equal stance in the church. You see, the Mormon church places family at the forefront of their values. Women are viewed as the ones who primarily care for and nurture the family.. making their role in the church just as important as the role of any man.. and making the guidance of God just as important a part of their lives as any man. edit: If I had to go through a man to find out all of the answers to all of the questions I want to ask God, I may well never ask some very important questions. I'm sure this is true of every human being, male or female. edit: OH! Furthermore, if the clergy had all the answers, I could just ask my husband! He's an ordained elder! Just because you are a member of the priesthood does NOT mean that you have all the answers. Only God does. All I've heard about the Mormon church I've learned from the folks who come through our neighborhood 'teaching' (proselytizing). I've 'studied' with them for 6 months, but they had to get women from a local group to come teach my Darling and I, because they weren't allowed to associate with women alone and we didn't have men in the household. We were also informed, by these women who came to teach us, that we would have to depend on the Bishops to intercede with the Mormon god for us, because women did not have the ear of god -- and that we would have difficulty without a man to be our 'head' in our household, since women did not have the proper 'station' to manage a household "in the faith". I don't know what branch of Mormonism they came from. The ones who showed up at our place were in black pants, white shirts, plain ties, and rode bicycles, and they gave us a copy of the Book of Mormon. If it doesn't work that way, I'm sorry, I can only go by what was shared with me (which is why it probably isn't going to do much good at all to ask people who -aren't- responsible for spreading doctrine to answer those kinds of questions.) I can't speak to whose god is whose and what the different iterations of god profess or allow, since my experience and knowledge lies outside of -any- of the current Christian, neopagan, etc., pantheons, and the closest I come is having been brought up Catholic -- a belief structure that I abandoned long before I was of an age to be allowed to decide whether or not to expend an entire Sunday morning in church. To my mind, if all the Christian gods were the same, there would be absolutely no reason for thousands of Christian churches, but that's a whole different topic. I do know, however, that the only real authority on -any- religion's doctrine is whoever is running that church and spreading that doctrine. I figured that I didn't like the concept, so I don't participate in the churches, but if a Catholic wanted an answer about marriage, kink and Catholic doctrine, I'd send them to a Catholic priest. If they were Methodist, I'd send them to a Methodist minister, if they were Jewish, I'd send them to talk to a rabbi... so there was no offense intended in sending you to talk to the people who teach doctrine for the LDS. Calla Firestorm

mypassion -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/4/2008 4:25:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rosanegra Frankly, I am looking for answers that go deeper than what the church has to say.. I am looking for answers regarding the scriptures, and how to extrapolate whether or not it is acceptable for my husband and I to have that relationship and still be able to, in good conscience, and in good faith, enter the temple. I do not like my religion spoon-fed down my throat from someone who doesn't know what is in my heart. It is a personal thing, whether or not I feel right continuing to live this lifestyle, and whether or not I feel God has given me his blessing. If that is truly the case then do the research and find the answer for yourself... You say you don't want to blindly swallow what the church tells you but yet you are willing to do just that for us kinky people? I don't get the difference.

scarlethiney -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/4/2008 6:44:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rosanegra Here is the problem.. clergy are human beings. They therefore filter things through human minds, with human hang-ups and shortsightedness, even while they may be inspired by God. I may get three different answers from three different clergy. I am not trying to satisfy the conscience of someone else, but my own. Also, I quite resent the fact that you seem to think the "Mormon God" (who is the very same God that every Christian believes in, regardless of some of the things the Mormons believe that God has said that other denominations of Christianity do not) only listens to men. Yes, men are a part of the priesthood, and women are not.. this is something that has caused me concern, and trust me I'm praying on it, but women do have an equal stance in the church. You see, the Mormon church places family at the forefront of their values. Women are viewed as the ones who primarily care for and nurture the family.. making their role in the church just as important as the role of any man.. and making the guidance of God just as important a part of their lives as any man. edit: If I had to go through a man to find out all of the answers to all of the questions I want to ask God, I may well never ask some very important questions. I'm sure this is true of every human being, male or female. edit: OH! Furthermore, if the clergy had all the answers, I could just ask my husband! He's an ordained elder! Just because you are a member of the priesthood does NOT mean that you have all the answers. Only God does. rosanegra you came on here and asked this forum for advice and then you resent certain members when they are kind enough to take the time to give you the advice you asked for. You can't have it both ways. You don't have to agree with every thing said to you but becoming resentful and being rude aren't going to encourage support from others. scarlet

redbottombonanza -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/4/2008 8:51:25 PM)
I completely understand your battle between your faith and your kink. It isn't an easy balance but one that, for me personally, became clearer as I became older. I find all of these concerns about temple rites and approval from your church very interesting especially since you have posted a picture of your pierced nipple on your profile. I hardly think that this is sanctioned by the book of Mormon. Do I think you should be able to place whatever picture of yourself on your profile? Of course! I just find it interesting that you are so concerned with what happens behind closed doors in your marriage but seem to be ok with posting photos such as these on a public board. Food for thought perhaps....

DarkSteven -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/5/2008 6:48:32 AM)
I am Jewish, but lived in Utah for six years and was married to an ex-Mormon while I lived there. The ward bishops and stake Presidents that run things on a day-to-day basis are NOT men that have devoted their lives to their faith like a priest, minister, or rabbi. They hold jobs, have families, and accept their position on a rotating basis. AFAIK, they do not take theology n college. As such, their interpretations are based more on real life experience that, say. a priest's would be. I would consider the LDS religion as a whole to be very supportive of male-dominant couples but not of femdom ones. After all, when a woman dies, her husband is the one in her afterlife who decides whether she is worthy of heaven.

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