RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women

RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

LadyEllen -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 5:48:43 AM)
I'm sorry Rule, but to all intents and purposes St Paul and the OT are in the Bible for a reason - and leaving aside more interesting and deeper discussions of its origins and possible meanings, this is a discussion essentially about what it means to stand for election on the basis of "Christian values" and whether in fact there is any such thing? E

MissSCD -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 5:49:10 AM)
*She is conducting herself in a way that women should conduct them. Beating up men is the right way instead of them beating us. I am suprised at that comment from you LadyEllen.* *SCD*

kittinSol -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 5:50:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Also he spoke to the jewish people of his time, converting them to Christianity and convincing them to stop their evil ways. Thanks a lot. aww...don't feel bad...you might be evil but i disrespect hubby by not covering my head. If i see him with a pile of stones, warmimg up his pitching arm, might i camp on your sofa? Cool, girls' night! I'll light the fire out in the garden, and we can dance around it naked [8D] .

sirsholly -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 5:50:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen quote: :LadyEllen I have no reason to judge Palin I have no problem with people describing themselves as Christian running for any office, and no problem with women who so describe themselves doing so; where my confusion comes is in the apparent position Palin holds that the Bible is true - so she is either deliberately violating its counsel, has never read it (which in Christian teaching would be a rightful thing) or she doesnt really think its true. E this sounds judgemental to me

Rule -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 5:54:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Also he spoke to the jewish people of his time, converting them to Christianity and convincing them to stop their evil ways. In fact the early Christians of those days considered themselves to be jews. St Paul specifically admonishes his converts against the practice of circumcision, stating that those populations that were not circumcized were in fact circumcized of heart - i.e. they were good people - whereas jewish populations, though having mutilated the penises of their males, in contrast were not circumcized of heart - i.e. they were evil people. It was pure genius that he noticed that correlation - nearly two thousand years before such sciences as evolution theory and population genetics and concepts as the gene pool, which can elucidate this correlation, were developed. But then again, of course, he was the only person of his time that had walked the road to Damascus.

kittinSol -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 6:00:17 AM)
[sm=Groaner.gif] At least, I suppose this means Jewish women aren't inherently evil, since we're not circumcised. That reassures me.

sirsholly -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 6:07:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol [sm=Groaner.gif] At least, I suppose this means Jewish women aren't inherently evil, since we're not circumcised. That reassures me. damn...does this mean our fire dance is cancelled?[:(]

meatcleaver -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 6:09:18 AM)
As always, christians like believers of other religions, take from religious writings what reinforces their view of the world, not what such writing actually say or imply. It amazes me that when christians want to impose some behaviour they believe in on other people, they quote the bible claiming their interpretation of the texts are true because it is the word of god. When the bible is inconvenient, christians ignore it. If Palin believes the bible to be literal, which she apparently does because she is a creationist, it is quite clear what the bible implies how women should act. They are their husband's chattle, they should do what he says, she exists to procreate and look after her husband's needs and know her place. If any woman believes in stoneage stories to be the word of god, they should get what they deserve.

kittinSol -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 6:09:39 AM)
Maybe we could have a knitting event with tea and biscuits instead [&o] .

MissSCD -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 7:06:53 AM)
There are going to be a lot of people in heaven. I like a variety. Variety makes things interesting. Regards, SCD

LadyEllen -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 7:22:00 AM)
So then, (cutting to the chase before it bogs down in diverions; KS, I'm looking at you and SH) what does it mean to stand for election on the basis of "Christian values" if in fact there is any such thing? Standing where I am, it appears to me that "Christian values", whilst a convenient shorthand that is widely accepted, doesnt actually mean anything at all, because it can mean a whole lot of different things to everyone - even and especially in the camps that celebrate it. Yes, there is some sharing of ideas but there is no coherent set of "Christian values" which all those who look to it and for it agree on. In such case then its at best questionable and at worst totally fraudulent to stand for election on the basis of "Christian values". This isnt about bashing Christianity or the Bible (or even Sarah Palin, who just happens to have prompted this), still less Christians themselves. Its about questioning what is meant by "Christian values" as it might be applied to firstly a marketing campaign such as an election campaign is, whether it has any merit as a selling point in that marketing process and whether it should have any role in government - if, as seems to be the case it is actually anything you want to make it. E

LaTigresse -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 8:51:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver As always, christians like believers of other religions, take from religious writings what reinforces their view of the world, not what such writing actually say or imply. It amazes me that when christians want to impose some behaviour they believe in on other people, they quote the bible claiming their interpretation of the texts are true because it is the word of god. When the bible is inconvenient, christians ignore it. If Palin believes the bible to be literal, which she apparently does because she is a creationist, it is quite clear what the bible implies how women should act. They are their husband's chattle, they should do what he says, she exists to procreate and look after her husband's needs and know her place. If any woman believes in stoneage stories to be the word of god, they should get what they deserve. Exactly! Which is why I detest organized religioun. Too many feel free to tweak it to their own convenience yet use it to bash others that do the exact same thing. Methinks hell will be well populated also. Fortunately I don't believe in either heaven or hell.

bipolarber -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 9:10:02 AM)
You folks sure love quibbling over details of fiction... Yeah, Palin says she's a christian... she does the whole "anti-witchcraft" thing... she believes that dinosaurs and people lived at the same time, and that she has the right to control every other woman's reproductive system. So, yeah, to me thats like she should be wearing a t-shirt with big ol' letters on it that says, "Hypocrite" on it. But then, I feel that way about any religion that preaches against what other people do publicly, while doing the exact same thing privately. (ie any and all of them)

Sanity -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 10:46:23 AM)
That's a really good question, LadyE. Maybe Obama, being such a devout Christian himself, had ought to hold an urgent press conference immediately and call her out on that. But first he'd probably have to take Michelle's shoes away from her, so he didn't look quite so hypocritical...

Musicmystery -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 10:55:51 AM)
Let's all charter a bus and take a trip over to the Place of Women this weekend.

Musicmystery -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 10:58:32 AM)
quote: its at best questionable and at worst totally fraudulent to stand for election on the basis of "Christian values". Family Values Listen to almost any political speech--it'll come up soon--"family values." This became an incessant mantra in the late 20th century, and it’s so far a mainstay of the 21st--all candidates, all parties, every issue, every election. "I'm fighting for families," runs the claim, implying that some evil government somewhere is plotting against the American family. But just what are these "family values”? The term is vague; no one ever lists "The Family Values." Context isn't helpful either. People throw around this term primarily to mean "those people who think just the way I do," but groups with opposing views also use the term. When not used to justify self-righteous piety, "family values" allows ad hominem attacks on straw man positions. Gay couples, single moms, political parties, education policies, tax cut proposals--all are guilty at one time or another of opposing "family values." The term is also disingenuous; 20% of Americans are single--are they unrepresented? Or are they part of the evil plot to destroy "family values”? Actually, this context does indicate some meaning for the term. "Family values" seems to mean "it's just that simple." Of course, nothing is ever "just that simple”; social, economic, cultural, historical and several other issues are certainly never "just that simple," so a vague term like "family values" is quite useful for ignoring that reality. Don't worry--everything's fine. Now that's certainly a "family value." But everything isn't fine. There's war and poverty and human rights abuses and starvation and unemployment and difficult ethics questions to answer. But not in the land of "family values." "Family values," then, means essentially the life of a twelve year old. Parents are all-knowing, life is fun, problems are simple and easily solved, just like on TV where beautiful people interact with each other to address problems always solved in 30 minutes. Everything at twelve has one, easy answer. Teenage confusion and the struggle toward maturity are unimaginable yet. It's good to be twelve. "Family values" is a way to pretend to be twelve again. "Family values" as a return to age twelve fantasy means an escape from responsibility. Don’t worry about anything that happens. Someone else is to blame. Go back to sleep now. You're excused from thinking today--you've got a note from your mom.

LadyEllen -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 11:19:14 AM)
Good post MM - and yes I would say that "Family Values" and "Christian Values" does seem to have the same all purpose soporific effect (and maybe intent) on whether electors will think any further than "ah good, he/she is just like me; sensible, likeable, decent - I can vote for him/her" E

LadyEllen -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 11:20:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity That's a really good question, LadyE. Maybe Obama, being such a devout Christian himself, had ought to hold an urgent press conference immediately and call her out on that. But first he'd probably have to take Michelle's shoes away from her, so he didn't look quite so hypocritical... But.........I thought we were convinced Obama is a Muslim? Has he made anything as much as t'other side has though, over his religious affiliations? E

sirsholly -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 12:05:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen I'm sorry Rule, but to all intents and purposes St Paul and the OT are in the Bible for a reason - E loosly stated, the OT was negated for Christians with the birth of Christ.

Sanity -> RE: Palin, the Bible and the place of women (10/3/2008 12:09:15 PM)
When did you decide that Obama is a Muslim? Was that before or after he splayed his "Every Sunday" Christianity all over the TV.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.03125