RE: Beware SSRI's (Full Version)

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sirsholly -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/13/2008 1:50:31 PM)

and btw Term...just thought i would toss this in. I was a hyper kid but never diagnosed with ADHD. I had it, just never knew it. When my late husband died the ADHD became acute secondary to the chemical imbalance his death caused. I was put on a SSRI first, then Ritalin. Neither drug, closely monitored by a doctor, caused me to be "stoned". What they did was to restore some degree of normalicy and prevent me from seriously taking a route i now thank God i did not take.



Missokyst -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/13/2008 1:51:06 PM)

I had no idea what SSRI was but am I the only one who thought of this:

Westley: No, no. We have already succeeded. I mean, what are the three terrors of the Fire Swamp? One, the flame spurt - no problem. There's a popping sound preceding each; we can avoid that. Two, the lightning sand, which you were clever enough to discover what that looks like, so in the future we can avoid that too.

Buttercup: Westley, what about the R.O.U.S.'s?

Westley: Rodents Of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist.

Acronyms are more fun when you can fit them in a script.



CalifChick -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/13/2008 4:18:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
And in closing, the Columbine shooters were on SSRIs, as were quite a few others who went "postal" so to speak. What does that tell you ?


That most SSRI's are not for use in teenagers and children, and that SSRI's are not for everyone. 


Cali



CalifChick -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/13/2008 4:19:36 PM)

Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor.  Commonly referred to as an antidepressant (not all antidepressants are SSRI's).


Cali



Termyn8or -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/14/2008 1:56:27 AM)

OK, in light of these rebuttals perhaps I should reconsider part of my opinion. This has happened before, but not all that often.

Likening SSRIs to insulin doesn't quite fly. Insulin is given because basically the person's pancreas has shutdown, and is basically dead. Judging from the text here, if the same were true and everybody was brain dead this would not be quite as interesting.

However I am not coming off my assertion that SSRIs are overused, overprescribed.

If I went to a doctor with bad knee pain, and he whipped out his pad and wrote me a script for pain killers I would be tempted to strangle him. I can kill the pain, believe me a trip to the liquor store can do that right up, I want the PROBLEM fixed.

I would consider a proper use for an SSRI to be akin to using a valium type muscle relaxant for back pain. I know about back pain and have fought it without drugs, although looking back at the experience I can see that not everyone is quite up to such a task. I fully understand that when something goes out of kilter that the muscles tense and make everything worse.

At some point in time it seems to me, that the pen replaced the scalpel as the preferred tool for doctors. That is the main thing that my being rails against. SSRIs are very powerful in their specific capabilities, and should be considered class I. Like LSD25. I mean you can go through hell and just not care ? What do YOU call that ?

So SSRIs can be useful, but I think their use should be alot more limited, or at least less unlimited. I think if they give the patient time to regroup, think things through and actually get better, when without them the process would be more arduous or maybe even impossible, by all means. But the idea should be to address the root cause of the problem with the explicit goal of getting off the drug ASAP. I don't mean two years, I mean two months. If you are taking a drug that affects the mind so profoundly, to the point that all kinds of bad things can happen to you and you don't care, you should be in therapy every single day to try to resolve the problem that created the need for the drug.

T



sirsholly -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/14/2008 3:35:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I know about back pain and have fought it without drugs, although looking back at the experience I can see that not everyone is quite up to such a task.

why should they be? If there is a medication which offers relief and they choose to take it, more power to them!
quote:


At some point in time it seems to me, that the pen replaced the scalpel as the preferred tool for doctors.

I call this simply an advancement in medical/pharmacology science.
quote:


So SSRIs can be useful.... But the idea should be to address the root cause of the problem with the explicit goal of getting off the drug ASAP. I don't mean two years, I mean two months.


It is a fact that a chemical imbalance is very slow to correct, if it ever does. A two month allowance is as silly as casting a broken bone for a week. And there is no real test to determine the status of the imbalance other than the patients reaction to the withdrawl of the medication.
In many cases the cause of the imbalance is known (your example was multiple loss of loved ones?) but  knowing the cause does not negate the imbalance.





sirsholly -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/14/2008 4:09:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or



Likening SSRIs to insulin doesn't quite fly. Insulin is given because basically the person's pancreas has shutdown, and is basically dead


Really? In most cases the pancreas is functional. This is why a diabetic shocks...they are taking oral/injectable insulin while the pancreas produces its own and the combination of the two can send the patient into hypoglycemic shock

And i think comparing the need for an SSRI with the need for insulin certainly does fly. In both cases there is an organ malfunction.



Aneirin -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/14/2008 4:18:48 AM)

Yes,I would be inclined to agree that SSRI's are over prescribed, as they are an effective edge rounder for many who take them, and they just have to be cheaper than valuable doctors time. Personally, I have been on these things now for coming up for two years, but the root cause of the problem has not yet been investigated, nor do I believe it will. I make my own efforts with a lot of introspection, but who is saying that what I ponder is right. One day I know will come where like last time ,(the time I took myself off these things), a time where I feel myself to be better, cured even, and with the doctor I will taper off, do it the right way, but how long will it be before all the old symptoms come back. Many who are on these medications, are so for most of their life at one time or other, because the complaint that caused the illness was never cured.

I know of a barrister who was prescribed amyltryptilene for a throat problem, that for the upset the throat problem was causing, given the barrister's job, the throat problem has now gone, but the barrister is still on the medication, and has even tried to take a year out of work to get off the things, but fifteen years later, they are still on them, the medication has caused a problem. That is what I fear about these things, a dependence.



KatyLied -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/14/2008 4:39:26 AM)

quote:

I would be inclined to agree that SSRI's are over prescribed,


I would tend to agree.  The people who admit to taking them in casual conversation can be astounding.  My problem with SSRI's and mood disorder meds in general, is that docs without specialization are prescribing them.  I think it is better for a patient to be under the care of a pyschiatrist if they are going to put mood disorder meds in their system.  And also to avail themselves of a multi-disciplinary method of treatment, including some behavior modification and talk therapy.



bookworm966 -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/14/2008 5:00:18 AM)

I think my initial feeling wasnt pissed off as much as disappointed that someone can make an inaccurate blanket statement about a MEDICAL problem so blindly.  I am on a cocktail of mood stabilizers and will be on them for the rest of my life.  Having been diagnosed bipolar and under treatment for many years, I have been off and on meds.  Invariably when I am OFF the meds, I end up in a nonfunctioning state, either at home and unable to work, or hospitalized.  While I do not take SSRIs now, I have been on them in the past.  My condition is the same whether I am experiencing outside stressors or not, although it does worsen with the presence of them.  As a healthcare professional, I also know a bit more than the average layman about these medications, the indications for them and the adverse effects.  My brain does not produce or effectively use the chemicals a 'normal' brain does.  Is it my fault?  No, I was born this way.  Can I cure this condition with therapy?  No.  I can decrease some symptoms through productive counselling, but the baseline problem remains and will be there the rest of my life.  So I will keep wearing my bandaid, changing it occasionally, because the wound underneath will never heal. 



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/14/2008 9:17:55 AM)

What Bookworm said.

I wish EVERY DAY that I could toss those meds.  I try periodically to lower my dosage (with my psychiatrist's guidance) to see if I can do "just as well".  No go.  My family has pretty much told me that I am not allowed to stop them, Depressed Francine is just not something they need to deal with again.  I don't want to deal with her again either!  This is my reality.  I have done therapy, and gotten some useful things from it, but therapy will not cure me.  I have a wonderful life, I am surrounded by people that love me, I am respected by my colleagues.  I work all the time to maintain my mood, to figure out just what I am reacting to when I have an extreme reaction to something, to keep moving ahead.  Without my meds, that would not be possible.

It takes up to a month for these drugs to even manifest in the system, to say that they should be a two month thing is absurd.  (I will not even address the comment about hitting the liquor store for "painkillers".)  I do agree that antidepressants of all kinds are prescribed far too freely, by those who do not understand their function.  There are no "happy pills".   Can a short term scrip help someone get over a trauma more easily?   Yes, I have seen that happen.  Is it necessary?  Probably not.   So what?  There is nothing wrong with proper use of modern pharmacology to improve a person's life.



Termyn8or -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/15/2008 8:49:42 AM)

I guess it might be a good time for me to count my lucky stars.

I had anger issues of collosal proportions. Guns, other weapons and fire involved. If the me of today came across the me of then I would kill me for the betterment of society. I am not kidding. I wound up homeless for a time as a direct result of this problem. Consequences are a great teacher.

With that type of problem, one lashes out the hardest at those who are closest. I know it makes no sense, but that's the way it was. I probably would have been a perfect candidate for SSRIs and in a way I am glad they didn't exist. I was forced to work it out. Now it takes a hell of alot to get my dander up. I am actually more even tempered than almost anyone I know now.

This did not happen overnight. I am damn lucky not to have killed anyone, but I still was not cured overnight. While you selectively reuptake your seratonin, I select my emotions, and have learned to define and quantify them.

Aggravation exists in everyone's life, but it is up to each of us whether or not we convert that into anger. Within limits of course.

There are going to be periods of boredom, which some will convert to depression, or at least lonliness. I learned that the world does not owe me constant entertainment. I also wouldn't want it. There is also nothing wrong with being alone, and I have learned to enjoy solitude. Nowadays the closest I get to depressed is just feeling blah.

Yup, there are days I peruse these boards and even if I feel like commenting on something I'll just say to myself 'not right now'. I'll even look around at the piano and guitars and it's 'not right now'. If I just sit there, eventually I will think about some issue, but have learned not to get myself into a loop. Literally if my thinking passes the same point three times I force myself off the subject, as there is no solution at this time.

I think I am a born problem solver and that is reflected in my chosen profession(s). I also believe that when a solution was elusive, that was when I had problems. I wasn't handling it right, treating it as a failure rather than a temporary delay. Stepping back and looking at the bigger picture sometimes reveals many solutions.

And last but not least, the more aware you are of the goings on in the world the more depressed you will be. It is true, we are in bad shape. I mean the whole world, not just this country or that. Man's inhumanity to Man, something we as a species should have grown out of centuries ago, is rampant. How can you be aware of all this war and whatever and be happy ?

Detachment. It's the only way. Look at the TV news, 1,000 children dead because ...... and then fluff "Guess who's coming to town" (some celeb). You think that fluff just negates the little glimpse into hell you just experienced ? I don't think so, and just try to look for some good news today. Sure there is some out there, but I believe that everything negative tends to accumulate.Sometimes you just have to say that you're alright but the world is all wrong. Sometimes it is true.

I hope someone sees something useful in this. I must get off here and get my lazy arse to work, where I will be polite and kind no matter what. As long as I make it by the hour, I have no reason to complain. If others' incompetence cost me money I would not tolerate it. As it is now all I have to do is look at the clock for a couple of minutes and realize I just made a dollar. I do my best, and if others don't, it is not my problem.

So I guess that's another factor, removing these elements from your life which bring on depression or anger, but you can only do so much in that respect. The rest you have to deal with, or at least you did back when I was up and coming.

Further comment and rebuttal would be welcome. I don't consider this a hijack because we are talking about the use of certain drugs, and I have expressed an opinion on the reason for the use of those drugs. Seems logical to me.

T



ClassicV -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/15/2008 1:49:39 PM)

I'm not sure if venlafaxine is one of them, but I can only handle 48 hours without my 300mg that I am supposed to take every day.  Past that time, I get dizzy, nausea, a kind of squeak in my hearing that comes in pulses ... I haven't got past that stage, but it ain't nice.  I do suspect however, that the depression s more a symptom of something much deeper ... and 35 years old :-S .  I'm not looking forward to coming off them, but I am looking forward to BEING off them !



Termyn8or -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/16/2008 8:52:11 AM)

You all might find interesting a thread in off topic entitled "Which way would you go?".

It is a question from missturbation about a book. In it a new drug is found that absolutely cures drug addiction in ninety days. The problem is that about two out of every hundred people who take it commit murder.

I think it brings out some interesting points.  Check it out.

T



subenigmatic -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/16/2008 9:22:47 AM)

Okay, so I just have to chime in on this one.  Term, I think maybe you might not understand exactly how the SSRI's work.  In the brain there are several chemicals that are released and then subsequently taken back up by receptors located in the brain.  Sometimes the receptors are taking up more than they should, causing lower levels of serotonin or whatever other chemical in the brain.  SSRI's block some of these receptors of taking up serotinin thereby increasing the overall level of serotonin in the brain.  When you look at it from the purely chemical aspect, it is absolutely logical to compare them to a diabetic taking insulin.  They are both chemical inbalances in an organ in your body, that no amount of willpower can totally eliminate.  That being said, just like a diabetic needs to control their diet and excercise, so does someone who is on an SSRI need to rely on things other than medications to control their illness.  Yes, I do believe they are over prescribed for trivial reasons and prescribed for wrong reasons. Yes, I think that if some people went into therapy instead there would be no need for them to be on medications.  I also know that sometimes therapy can't cure a chemical imbalance.



pixelslave -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/16/2008 10:36:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Second, it is well known that the brain can affect the body's chemistry via hormonal changes and so forth. It is also known that one's thoughts and feelings can affect that process. Does anyone care to debate that ?



What you're missing is that one's thoughts can affect their brain chemistry.  Once the chemistry of the neurotransmitters is out of balance, one's normal thinking often cannot be restored without medications.  Until that happens, very often a person can't do any kind of talk therapy to help resolve their situational problems that may have resulted in their dysfunctional or depressive thought processes.  It's a very cyclical kind of thing. 
 
Some people are also genetically pre-disposed to depression.  It's not uncommon for depression to run in families, just like other illnesses can be traced back a number of generations in families.  For these people, it's no different than needing insulin for diabetes, a medication for heart disease, or something for arthritis.  Would you deny them the medications they need in order to live a normal life?
 

quote:


These are mind altering drugs, and not very dissimilar to those that are illegal. Your whole family, pet and a few best friends just died but you don't care. No thank you. I could never drink and smoke enough to stop caring and I wouldn't want to. But the thing is I have learned to live with life, and that is EXACTLY what depressed people have to do.



Have you suffered from depression?  Have you known someone who's suffered from clinical depression?  I'm not talking about just sadness or a bit of lethargy from the loss of a loved one, I'm talking about not being able to get out of bed to get something to eat, get dressed, shower or go to your job!  If not, then I'm not certain you understand the magnitude of the illness people here are speaking of.  That's just how much the brain slows down when the receptors quit firing because the neurotransmitters aren't there to carry the signals. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image]
 

quote:


Ignorance is bliss, and SSRIs are canned ignorance, but only a specific kind. Yes they can be useful



I hate to say this, but you seem to be the one who's bliss in showing your ignorance here.  SSRI's and other psyocotropic medications can be life changing and life saving medications for many when properly administered.  Do you even know what an SSRI is?  SSRI stands for Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor.  Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that in the past has been most known for being related to sleep functions.  Here's a link to Wikipedia about SSRI's if you're interested in educating yourself about them and other antidepressants (there are a number of classes of them).
 
As an aside, I personally don't believe that family practitioners should be permitted to prescribe anti-depressants as I don't think they're qualified.  It's a job that should be left to those who specialize in psychiatry as it's more of an art than a science in terms of finding the right medication for many patients.  There's still a great deal that's unknown which is changing daily that these professionals are in a position to keep up with that GP's don't.
 

quote:


Does that sound logical to you ?

- snip -

What I have said here is my opinion. And in closing, the Columbine shooters were on SSRIs, as were quite a few others who went "postal" so to speak. What does that tell you ?



No, it doesn't sound logical at all.  The problem is, just as you said, what you've done is expressed an opinion that's not based on any factual information.  That people have gone "postal" while on SSRI's doesn't mean they don't work or aren't helpful.  Those people could have many other things in common.  They probably all drank water too.  Should we blame it on water?  All the postal workers delivered mail and wore blue uniforms.  Should we blame it on postage stamps or on the blue uniforms? [8|]
 
Enough of the silly analogies, the fact is there were and are many factors involved in the kind of incidents you mention.  Those people were mentally ill and needed help.  Clearly, they needed more help than they were getting.  Not everyone can afford or gets the same the quality of mental health care here in the US or elsewhere that they need and deserve.  SSRI's are only one part of the treatment plan for many.  To dismiss them without understanding what they do or what role they play in the brain's chemistry is both illogical and absurd! [&:]
 
 - pixel
 
 Lady Pact's bleaux
 under mutual consideration by each other [;)]
 
 
 



hereyesruponyou -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/16/2008 6:12:15 PM)

Not wanting to argue....BUT not all depression is debillitating in the i'm so sad, or i can't get out of bed kind of way. Those are horrible ways to live your life, and meds are of course a good option to try to improve quality of life. But i also have to advocate for those of us who don;t get to that level. For me I stop being able to function in other ways. I can;t do math. Seriously. Give me a list of 4-5 numbers and tell me to add them, even with a calculator i will get a different answer every time. I can't organize my thoughts or any projects or work i need to do. I'm just completely out of focus. Do i feel that way? Not until it gets WAY out of control. My psychiatrist told me when we first started therapy that it would be my friends and family who would know when  i was having an escalation of symptoms well before i did. He encouraged me to talk to them and get them to give me feedback when i needed it.

I have not tried to discontinue my meds, but i have had some stop working for me and my symptoms returned and we started over with the roulette of finding something that works. Oh and btw - i can not do SSRI's...i am one of the 3% who they make much worse. I get angry and have thoughts of violence i have barely been able to control. Scary? yeah. that's why you don;t play with these without proper supervision.  But watching members of my family live miserable lives because "they don't like the way the meds make them feel", also sucks.  Excuse me if i can see the value in being happy and functional on meds, rather than dysfunctional and crying 3-4 hours a day.

Are all psychotropic meds over-prescribed? yes. I agree that many doctors whip out the pad a bit quick, especially with children and adolescents. I really don;t think anyone on here is saying that drugs are right in all situations or for everyone. They are just asking that you not judge them for taking care of themselves the way they need to.



Termyn8or -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/16/2008 7:02:07 PM)

pix, fine and good.

"Clearly, they needed more help than they were getting"
 
Thanks for helping make my point, at least part of it.

I have always known that thoughts as well as moods can affect the chemistry of not only the brain, but other parts of the body as well. And I have known what seratonin is since before some people on this forum may have been born. (18 or over, the math is right).

Seratonin is very involved in higher cognitive thinking, and at least in the past, the levels normally dropped as people aged. Back then the researchers figured that it was almost like a brain booster, and in some ways produced the opposite effect than ADD or ADHD. In fact at least one study found that LSD and certain related chemicals increased the seratonin levels.

Back then they weren't studying the receptors all that much, they looked at the levels and drew conclusions from those data. I can't say anything they conclude is correct, and even in the past that was true. But if the modern information available jibes with the old research, one might conclude that the seratonin levels are simply too high in some people. If this is true it lends way to a less invasive method of control, simply reduce the overall level of seratonin.

It can be done, and the receptors could be left alone and it would more resemble an antibiotic. That is if the previous assumption is correct. I think if the various receptors are carefully shielded from influence, and just the overall level is reduced, a therapist might get a clearer picture of what he has to deal with.

I have already backed off of my original position "Don't take them unless you are suicidal" because mainly of the responses here. However the main tenet of my opinion is only abated, not changed in direction.I think the use of SSRIs should be very sparing in nature, prescibed only by those who understand the mind a bit, instead of a GP. If someone would develop (they might have) a drug that lowered the levels overall, I think it would be a better solution in the long run and that could be prescribable my a GP.

The problem here is that they do know alot more now about how the brain works, and now they think they know everything. They also think the solution to all problems is a drug. They are screwing around in the chemistry of the brain and they cannot predict the outcome.

I solve problems for a living, and I know about "shotgunning" which is when you just apply two or more solutions and hope for the best. But in my view that is a last resort, only to be used when all logical means have been exhausted, and that means that you simply can't get any more trustable data to target the problem effectively.

However they prescribe them like candy. To me that is analogous (using the insulin metaphor) to taking a borderline diabetic and putiing him on insulin right away, with no examination of diet or cause. There are dietary factors that are proven to cause diabetes. Yes there are other causes, but under certain conditions I can GUARANTEE that you will get diabetes. Of course genetics is always at play in this issue, and is actually something the medical community likes to avoid it seems.

And to actually rebut my expression that insulin and SSRIs are not comparable, something I do from time to time, they are both misregulation of a hormone/enzyme whatever. Now I wonder if there could be a dietary connection. I have a set of theories on that which is too broad to express here, I would have to start another thread. However I doubt that anyone could disprove that a misadjusted diet could lead to many diseases, and that most of them will be related to a hormonal imbalance or something of the sort.

Maybe this sounds far fetched to many, but far fetched were many advances in science of all kinds. What I have seen change in my lifetime, because my education still hasn't ended after over thirty years, that research now tends to focus more on micro issues than on macro issues, in this sense macro meaning one's environment.

Maybe my views, which are the result of over thirty years of learning, preclude the possibility that we will ever completely agree, but know this buddy, we don't completely disagree either. Even some who seem to disagree actually agree that SSRIs are overprescribed. But then I think everything is overprescribed. They wanted to give the olman Lipitor bacause his cholesterol was 180. That is ridiculous, he refused it and ate less processed meat, a bit less grease, more veggies. Why didn't his doctor tell hm to do that ?

Just so you know where I am coming from, I think they are doing a crappy job at medicine and reaping undeserved profits. I think this extends to every corner of the profession, including research. And it's not all the worker, like the doctor or researcher as much as what they are told to do.

A researcher is told : "Prove this"
A doctor is told : "Prescribe this"

In no way do I want to generalize that statement to include every professional in the field, but I think it is pretty much standard operating procedure. No cites or quotes here, just look at what they do.

From my perspective, I wonder who the drug pushers really are.

I have already, however stipulated to the fact that some may really need SSRIs, just like some really need insulin. But my point is, how many do not, and how much harm is it doing ?

I will refrain from calling your opinion illogical and absurd (probably due to normal seratonin levels) :-) but I will say this. The body of human knowledge was not built in a day, but for some reason some think it was. What worked a long time ago worked, or else we wouldn't be here. Also note that sometimes these old illogical and absurd ideas are proven not to be so with modern science. Some homeopathic remedies have been proven to be more effective and safer than modern medical treatment. Not all that many, but look what they had to work with.

It was a different way of thinking, one day I will write about it. Most people think differently now, and I think that is part of the problem.

One day future generations will look at our history and say "damn they were stupid", and in turn the same thing will happen to them. They might be stupider than us though. Generations of the past would never allow what is going on these days.

T



VivaciousSub -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/17/2008 8:39:11 PM)

T,

There's a lot of value in your postings, and I'm speaking as someone who has severe manic-depression and who spent quite a few years working for a multinational pharmaceutical concern where I had close contact with the psychiatric research department. I take these medications and they have saved my life. There's some of what you posted that is scientifically incorrect though, and I'll address that in a minute.

I believe that there is a terrible over-proliferation of the use of powerful, little-understood psychotropic medications. Keep in mind that for most of these drugs, we don't have long-term, multi-study longitudinal data. Generally, 20 years is considered to be the minimum needed to consider a body of evidence to be fairly reliable. The eldest SSRI, Prozac, was approved in 1985. That's 23 years. The majority of these medications are much younger and not well-understood. Effexor (Venlafaxine), for instance, uptakes 3 major neurotransmitters - serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine...but in different order, depending on the person. Do we know how this happens? Nope. Great caution should be used when prescribing these medications, and I don't see that happening for the most part. Like many others who have already posted, I am a firm believer that prescriptions ought to come from a psychiatrist. They are in the best position to assess the situation and determine whether a combination of meds and therapy is best, or therapy alone. They are also very knowledgeable for the most part about local therapists and can refer people appropriately.

Many of the people who have been prescribed these medications would do better to spend time in therapy. I've met people who get their GP to prescribe them after a bad breakup, with no other psychiatric history of significance. This strikes me as completely silly and rather irresponsible.

However, for those of us who truly need these medications, therapy is not possible until the meds have reached steady-state blood levels, which takes anywhere between 6-8 weeks. Medications give us a new window through which to look on the world, and take us to the point where therapy becomes viable.

I've spent heavy time in therapy, and it's gotten me to the point where I've been able to reduce my meds. I will never be able to go off them completely, because off the meds is far worse than on the meds.

The scientific inaccuracy that I wished to address had to do with what you said on serotonin and aggression. Serotonin levels are intrinsically linked to aggression levels - not well-directed aggression, but "useless" aggression that is self-destructive and dangerous. It is lower serotonin levels that are equated with higher levels of aggression. Reducing serotonin levels in people is a recipe for disaster and is often linked to suicide.

It's interesting to note that truly depressed patients must be watched carefully after they start taking SSRIs or SNRIs. If these medications do raise the level of available serotonin in the brain, why would suicide - linked to lower serotonin - become more of a risk? Suicide is a complex phenomenon, but to simplify quite a lot, the energy levels of the depressed patients can and often do rise before any mood elevation is seen. Thus you may find that a patient finally has the energy to off themselves before their thinking starts to sort itself out.

In summary, I agree in many regards with your postings, but please keep in mind that mental illness is complex, treacherous and often heartbreakingly difficult to live with either as the sufferer or a close relation. While there are a ton of trivial prescriptions written every year by people who have little specific training or education, there are many that are written for those who would have died without them.



velvetears -> RE: Beware SSRI's (10/18/2008 11:36:15 AM)

i was on cymbalta and wellbutrin for a little over 2 years.  My psychiatrist left and his replacement was a tyrant who dictated instead of listening to his patients and treating them like human beings.  i went off them cold turkey and didn't suffer any side effects.  my libido did come back, but slowly, not all at once turning me into a nympho lol.  



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