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Violin experience - 10/12/2008 8:02:11 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		It was refreshing to be a first timer, but ........ some of this might even sound comical.

Finely crafted in China, don't get me wrong though, it was a choice of having a violin or not. Paying for a quality violin when I have never in my life even tried to play one is not in the cards. I also have a Washburn guitar that plays fine. The violin actually cost less.

I don't even know if it has a brand name, but since yesterday was Saturday I decided to find out if the thing works. The first thing I found out is how hard it is to tune the thing. I have an electric guitar with a double action whammy bar, which means when you adjust one string it affects the tuning of all the other strings. This thing is ten times worse, and I figured out that is why there are adjustments on both ends of each string.

With the help of some website and the piano, I finally got the thing in tune. What an ordeal. I imagine that a slight adjustment won't be so bad, but the initial tuning is a big pain. Actually I am not sure if I have the bridge set right, and after what I've read I wonder if there is a "right".

Now it comes time to rosin up the bow. We the unknowing, can do anything. My first attempt did not succeed. I rubbed it and rubbed it and still got no sound, and I noticed the rosin block was hard as a rock. I'm thinking to myself 'this can't be right', so I stuck it in the microwave, first for a few seconds, then for a minute or so. It didn't even get warm.

So I drop it on the floor which cracks it all up. It's still in one piece and I am thinking that it is dried out, especially since the microwave had no effect. So I went and ran it under hot water for a few minutes. My hot water is set so hot that I don't need dishwashing liquid, everything is sterile, those nasty burn marks even disappear. I mean it is HOT. I can tell you alot of things about alot of things, like setting your hot water heater to the hottest setting will make it last longer (because is keeps the moisture evaporated off the works) but at the time I couldn't tell you much about a violin. To say the least.

Fianlly I decided to rub the living sheepshit out of it, and lo and behold it seemed to do something. I had to support the bowstring with my fingers to get it done, but it seemed to be bringing up some hairs or something because the feel changed.

AHA ! Eureka, the thing actually makes sound ! Up until then it was all plucking until it was in tune. Previously the bow did nothing, and out from the bowels of hell came a screeching sound.

In the next few minutes (or hour) I learned a few things, chords are basically two strings, and the tuning makes for a certain pattern, unlike a guitar but similar. I learned to eeek (literally) out a few and made it almost sound like music.

So of course I have to show someone and they look at me funny. Turns out I was playing it backwards. I was bowing with my left and fingering with my right. No wonder my hand hurt !

Well, all those minutes of learning and practice were down the drain. Pshaw. All my dedication brought naught, damn, I even locked my door because my neighbor has a six month old German Sheperd and I didn't wan't her jumping on me while I "studied" and drank. Beer and violins I am sure do not mix. In fact no beverage is allowed within a foot of my piano either, in fact I'd like a no-fly zone over it, extending to the stratosphere.

Then my neighbor buddy shows up sans dog and after a bit he would like to try it. This guy has absolutely no musical ability or talent whatsoever. He doesn't know a G string from ginseng. He sounded better than I did. After his opus I said "There is no way that thing is in tune" he asked "Why ?", I replied "Because you sounded better than me".

Anybody who plays the violin, any advice would be appreciated, and bear in mind that I would like to play, or attempt to play alot of different instruments. I'd like to try them all, but I only have one lifetime. I think next on the agenda might be a woodwind. I have palyed a bit of brass, trumpet and tuba, and a trombone, but never a woodwind. I wonder if they make a cheap saxophone now.

If I get serious with any of this I'll buy a good one, but for now all I care is that it works and plays properly.

At least this is something new to me.

Have a good day.

T
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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 8:51:22 AM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		Your right, the whole rosin part was pretty comical.

Sax, guitar, organ, piano, a little drums, 
     I spent some time with a violin, got decent.  I can tell you the one thing I wished I had done.  Found someone to give me a few lessons to get started.

K

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 9:11:33 AM   
PanthersMom


Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline 		um, rosin is supposed to be hard.  it's been a long time since i played, but i do remember that. thanks for the chuckle, and good luck.
PM

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 9:19:48 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Dude,  make a recording post it on youtube. we would love to hear it!!

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 9:30:59 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I read this to my 13 year old, who plays the viola.  An expensive viola.  LOL.  She is laughing so hard she is in tears.  Here is what she said:

Tuning:  Her viola came with a digital tuner.  You clamp it on the bridge, then you pluck the string, and you use the fine tuner at the bottom (the little bitty knob); if it's way out of tune, you use the bigger knob at the top (only slightly, if you turn it too much, you'll break the string).  The digital tuner has a series of lights that change and shows when you get it in tune (or some of them have a needle that goes back and forth to show the tuning).  So her advice is:  Go get a digital tuner, they're not expensive.

Rosin:  Rosin is supposed to be hard.  The first time you rosin up, you're going to do it alot.  After that, you rosin every other time you play (every single time is too much, you'll have rosin dust everywhere).

Bow:  To determine how much you need to tighten the bow, take a pencil and set it in the middle between the bow and the bowstrings, and tighten until it falls out on its own.  Meaning, hold the bow so the strings and the wood are on a horizontal plane.  When you tighten the strings, the strings will move away from the bow and the pencil will drop. 

Shoulder rest:  If you don't have one, get one.  She felt compelled to say that it should go on the underside of the instrument (I think it was that whole "playing it backwards thing" that caused that). 

Playing:  Go to a music store and pay for one private lesson.  In the lesson, they can put tape where your fingers should go on the instrument so that you can play in tune more often.

Good luck.  And thank you for making my 13 yr old's day.  She thanks you too.


Cali


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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 9:38:28 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Oh, she thought of something else:

After you play, loosen the bow strings.  If you leave them tight, it will stretch them out, and it won't play correctly.


Cali


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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 9:52:16 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		Although a double whammy bar can make for some unusual effects within one chord, does this not weaken the block overall?
I have the original tremolo arm on my Strat and the strings go back in tune after every use, so no problem. Washburns are nice gitters, I used to have both an eagle and a falcon. Did you add the whammy bar yourself T?
 
 
DOUBLE WHAMMY BAR
 
Living in the shadows of car insurance quotes
Castor and Pollux, two horrible blokes
Hygenically challenged, this brace as one
had killed the ugly duckling to spite the swans

With fistfulls of bitter these figures of fun
were blubbin' like babies all bothersome
but their, well his, blarting slipped 'twixt lip and cup
as the shape from the slaughterhouse shouted 'em up

After he'd stopped sulking on his mother's breast
and got catarrh
with his lethargic rasp n callous hands
he slapped a tara
on standard issue kisses sweet
and it's fancy repertoire
Trapped super swift from the awful sunshine
to the Double Whammy bar

With whinge turned up to maximum
Tweedledee and Tweedledum
This pair take on the mantle of a single sick rose,
being without a full deck and dormant from dominoes

With their gobs full of hate and cheese n onion cob,
had looked at felicity and give it up as a bad job
But 'twas a false dawn dreaming of being bereft and broke
as the jukebox and the butcher their ballache did revoke

Twitching freestyle to the Shadows' twang
the bloody superstar
cast a killer's eye at the nominal souls
and felt zest for his abattoir
After a long day staring defeat in the face
Sedgley is no Shangri-La
so like Cozy Powell he danced with the devil
in the Double Whammy bar

With guests in the attic, Jekyll and Hyde,
self taught magistrates, scoured the classified
The two sought a cupid's furrow for a solitary date,
an eye that weeps most when best pleased to adulterate

With roots full of ghosts and smocksters cast in gold
a lemon slice of inaction was ice cold
But it's a fool's paradise feeling loveless and quelled
and the slaughterer's tales of flattery desire dispelled

He described the gratification of painting the ceiling
for pure R&R
How a gory docket will selflessly spawn
an alcoholic reservoir
And the man with the cleaver and a paper ass
took his knife to the um and ahh
And with contempt for being all life you'll ever need is
drinking in the Double Whammy bar

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 11:17:35 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		First of all I'm glad some got a kick out of it. Actually I got a kick out of it because it is something new.

I just could not resist though, so earlier I fired up the electric, double action whammy Ibanez and of course, tried the bow on it. Led Zepplin I am not.

The double ation whammy Max is an Ibanez and I am damn glad it stays in tune. There is supposed to be five springs on it and this one only has three. In fact the action of the whammy is so easy I don't even use the bar, I can literally pull up or push down on the end of the bridge.

More later, thanks for the tips and be well. Now I am going to punish someone with the electric guitar I think, it is about time.

T

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 11:24:03 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		If I bought a violin (especially a cheap one) cranking my amp up to 11, adding numerous effects and playing my guitar with the bow, would be the FIRST thing I did with it.

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 1:18:56 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		LOL Mad. In my case it didn't work out, it won't sound the strings that are wound, only the straight up wire ones. You can only do so much on G, B and E. Of course don't tell Led Zepplin that.

Now the next step, a bit scary. Now people understand that I am not afraid of death, not that I am so tough, I just don't fear it. But this next step........

I have a little ditty I am developing on the piano. Not having an unaffordable mansion it is an electric piano and has a memory. I have now recorded my little song on it and it will play back at will. It is three minutes and fifty five seconds long and this is a good enough "version" to hold on to. The next step is to play the violin with it.

Calif, tell the kid I am going to attempt to play something in the key of E on it, on the second day I got it up and tuned. All good luck wishes are apreciated, because I think I am going to need it.

This is probably going to sound so bad the cops will come, and they don't here. I could jam Judas Priest at four in the morning and they won't come, but they might for this.

So if they come and get me I will tell someone I trust to get on here and let yall know where to send the bail money, that is if you want the violin stories to keep coming.

T

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 2:03:15 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Pencil me in to be the yodeler.

yodel yodel yodel

yo lay he who

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 2:42:35 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		I'll be brief. First, the things that have the string through them and turned to tune are called pegs and they go through 2 holes of what is called the pegbox.

With the violin new the strings need to be stretched to a tune and left for a while (a few hours to overnight) to then loosen them and then stretch them again when tuning again and leave them tuned. After a couple of tunings it should stay in tune.

You tune the fiddle by first drawing the bow across the G and D strings to a hamonious 5th, then the D and A and A and E. Tuning the strings in pairs minimizes the effect of tuning resulting in changing and pitch for another string.

The resin as a virgin chunk is supposed to be scored with a hard brush or other abrasive to remove the hard top layer. This breaks the rosin up at that surface area and is now ready for application to the bow. Draw the bow across this chunk of resin just as if you were playing it. You will have enough resin on the bow when you see little of it come off when you play the violin. Yes, loosen the bow hairs when placing it back into a case or when done playing.

The little twist tuner(s) attached to the tail the piece behind the bridge toward the end that goes under the chin should be on the E string only but many are choosing them for the A string too. Some modern student fiddles have 4, one for each string. Many purists do not believe in those but they do make it easier to tune them all.

The bridge is to be located just about 2/3 distance between the tail and the fingerboard and the sound post should be palced directly under the E string of the bridge. Look at some pictures of a violin and they will show you where. Moving the bridge will effect the sound and likely lead to weakening and breaking it. Moving the sound post away from the E toward the A will mute the sound of the E. Moving the sound post forward or backward will quite the whole instrument.

Do not put much pressure on the strings when first drawing the bow across them. You need to be able to speed the bow up when you apply pressure and that takes practice and familiarity with any fiddle and its own response. That response is heard and felt when you first 'start' the string which is what playing is called. That's why playing two notes together is called double stops. You will begin to feel and hear what you need to as you play more.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 10/12/2008 2:49:34 PM >

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 8:02:22 PM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		If he has had a guitar for any length of time he already knows what pegs are and to stretch strings before playing.

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 10:05:02 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman

If he has had a guitar for any length of time he already knows what pegs are and to stretch strings before playing.

I agree but didn't decribe the pegs as such yet said it was difficult to tune. The violin is easy to tune...so I thought maybe that was his problem. Some even recommend tuning it sharp and leaving it that way overnight.

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RE: Violin experience - 10/12/2008 10:30:20 PM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		Steel strings on a guitar do stretch quite a bit before settling and they need to do this properly because of the heavier attack.

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RE: Violin experience - 10/13/2008 4:58:00 AM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		Term,

This is the coolest thing that I have read in a long time.  I do not know the first thing about violins. It really is cool that you wanted to learn it and so you did it.

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RE: Violin experience - 10/13/2008 5:17:00 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

This is probably going to sound so bad the cops will come, and they don't here. I could jam Judas Priest at four in the morning and they won't come, but they might for this.

So if they come and get me I will tell someone I trust to get on here and let yall know where to send the bail money, that is if you want the violin stories to keep coming.

T

This puts a smile on my face. I have often told people that I could take a $multi-million Strad. and could still have listeners running for the hills in 5 minutes. The improper playing of a violin can be the musical equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard.

The old joke goes...if you want your fiddle to 'sound' like a strad., play it in the bathroom. (tile)

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RE: Violin experience - 10/13/2008 7:34:37 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Reading this has given me a much appreciated giggle, Termy.  Good luck on the endeavor - and you can count me in if someone needs ta bail  yer ass outta the can for sounding like you're murdering small furry animals through acts of unspeakable sadism! LMAO
 
My ONLY instrument is my voice.  I played banjo for a while (no Deliverance jokes from the penis gallery, please) when I was in my late teens - my grandparents went to a lot of Bluegrass festivals and frequently took me with them.  I never managed to develop a good set of calluses, even with constant practice.  Piano was beyond me - my hands are to small.  I can't stretch them sufficiently to make a full octave - fingers are to short.  I did play drums for a while in jr high and highschool, but I was so busy concentrating on my vocal stuff that I didn't dedicate the time to them that they deserved - so these days my drumming is limited to Dumbek and Djembe.  (Hand drums mostly used for belly dancing.  And no, I'm not particularly proficient at it - I don't spend enough time practicing.)

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RE: Violin experience - 10/13/2008 1:01:24 PM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		Don't forget the bagpipes MrR
In the hands of a newbie, you would chew your own ears off.

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RE: Violin experience - 10/15/2008 8:18:27 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Madax, watch out for Mod 11, threats are strictly forbidden here. I think a newbie with bagpipes might constitute a weapon of mass destruction.

In fact trying to visualize someone chewing their own ears off I believe has caused me a brain hemmorage. I'll have my lawyers call your lawyers.

T

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