RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (Full Version)

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JustDarkness -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:32:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

what is the difference between honesty and brutal honesty?
( at all)


Nothing, just the amount of words.
 
the.dark.

I thought the same.
Thinking honesty itself would be enough



MistressOfGa -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:35:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

what is the difference between honesty and brutal honesty?
( at all)


Example: "I like the dress you are wearing, but it tends to make you look a little hippy"
 
Brutal: "I like the dress you are wearing, but good god, does it ever make your ass look fat!"
 
Just an example. It can be much worse and not involve any flattery whatsoever. It could also involve name calling, just for the s to feel like they are getting their honest opinion across to the d.



missturbation -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:35:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I however think that maybe D types being the D type can make them more dominant about being honest. If that makes sense.
 
Actually on the flip side i have never come across a Dom prepared to admit he lied. Just my personal experience but it's true. Each and every one of them has pressed the important of honesty in a very 'Domly' manner too. *shrugs*


I find it is ego.  Certain dominants think that because they are dominant and that they might occasionally post a thread about how 'emotional' they can be, or the mistakes that they made in the past, that is admitting to flaws.  That and as well that being dominant gives them the excuse to be an asshole, but if they admit to being an asshole, then that is ok as well.  But it's not.
 
S-types don't have to posture their 'emotions' so it's on a different level.
 
The only time I take on board 'brutal honesty' is when the person - whatever the orientation - shows a degree of growth and learning.  No one can dish out brutal honesty if they can't be honest with themself.
 
the.dark.

 
Never thought about it like that. Ego!
I can see how it works for those that won't admit to lieing. Recent experience of a liar not prepared to be responsible for the consequences of his own actions.
Not so sure how it works for those Doms who are brutally honest though. Oh hang on, posturing, ego, being brutal. I get it. [:D]



WhiplashSmile2 -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:36:03 AM)

Just what is brutal honestly anyways?  What is too brutual to say or hear?

I had people express some thing in one sentence that was not brutal, that struck deeper and harder into me compared to a brutual attack.

It's amazing when those laid back, easy going people, out of the blue make one blunt honest remark.   The effects pack a punch.

Have a friend who is an s-type, she gets brutually honest with me and vice versa.  Her and I are just friends, one of those equalitarian based friendships.  Even though I'm a Dom and she's a submissive type.   We really don't let our orientations fuck with our friendship.   Then again, her and I have a friendship where being open and honest with each other is accepted and appreciated.



RCdc -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:36:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I tend to see an overwhelming negative response to my direct communication style on the Internet that isn't normally there in real life.

On examination, I concluded that the main difference is the absence of my killer smile and general warmth that goes a long way in softening my blows.


I find that is a biggie.  People don't react to the emotion because there isn't any on a screen.  People forget that so much of the time.
 
the.dark.



JustDarkness -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:39:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa
Example: "I like the dress you are wearing, but it tends to make you look a little hippy"
 
Brutal: "I like the dress you are wearing, but good god, does it ever make your ass look fat!"
 
Just an example. It can be much worse and not involve any flattery whatsoever. It could also involve name calling, just for the s to feel like they are getting their honest opinion across to the d.


that is to me the difference between honesty and making fun off

people like to hide behind "I am honest" but mean "I like to humiliate you"

but I do understant your example...thank you



KnightofMists -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:40:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark


I find that is a biggie.  People don't react to the emotion because there isn't any on a screen.  People forget that so much of the time.

 
I completely agree.. in an text forum... many people are projecting there own emotions into what another says at the time... or projecting what they would feel  if they where saying what was being said by the other person.  Seldom... do we actually know or appreciate what emotions the other person is actually feeling.  Body language, Tone of Voice and other subtle things does much to our communication that is missing in the text world. 



kyraofMists -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:40:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I find that is a biggie.  People don't react to the emotion because there isn't any on a screen.  People forget that so much of the time.
 
the.dark.

 
My perception is that people react to the emotion that they would be feeling if they wrote those words. 

on edit... guess I should wait until I hear him stop typing and see what he is posting to before I make my post  *g*



zakkan -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:42:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

what is the difference between honesty and brutal honesty?
( at all)


Example: "I like the dress you are wearing, but it tends to make you look a little hippy"
 
Brutal: "I like the dress you are wearing, but good god, does it ever make your ass look fat!"



You might be polite and just say hippy, but deep down you are definitely think "FAT!"

I think that among people you know very well, the line between honesty and brutal honesty is blurred. There are some people you can be brutally honest with. To give an example more applicable to guys,

"This is a cute car"

"This car makes you look GAY!" (No offense to gays)

Among my closer friends, I think I will use the latter. Face it, its more fun to be brutally honest sometimes [:D]



JustDarkness -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:43:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I tend to see an overwhelming negative response to my direct communication style on the Internet that isn't normally there in real life.

On examination, I concluded that the main difference is the absence of my killer smile and general warmth that goes a long way in softening my blows.


I find that is a biggie.  People don't react to the emotion because there isn't any on a screen.  People forget that so much of the time.
 
the.dark.

 
both the reader aswell the writer seem to forget it seems
the reader can't know it....but if the writer knows then he can try hard to refrase.
but well..if I have a bad day..you can write what you want...I would read it negative anyway...lol

good point



leadership527 -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:46:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
what is the difference between honesty and brutal honesty?


I'm not even going to apologize for giving the obvious answer here.... brutality.

That is also my answer to your question missturbation... I desperately try to avoid brutality unless it is my intention that only one of us walks away from whatever the situation is.



JustDarkness -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:47:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakkan
Among my closer friends, I think I will use the latter. Face it, its more fun to be brutally honest sometimes [:D]


it sure founds funny. I make such jokes too

still I think often people say bad things calling it honesty..while they just like the hurt others.


theory:
honesty= to help others
brutal honesty= to hurt others



LaTigresse -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:49:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I tend to see an overwhelming negative response to my direct communication style on the Internet that isn't normally there in real life.

On examination, I concluded that the main difference is the absence of my killer smile and general warmth that goes a long way in softening my blows.


I find that is a biggie.  People don't react to the emotion because there isn't any on a screen.  People forget that so much of the time.
 
the.dark.


This is probably the one thing that gets me in the most trouble online.

Edited to add........most people that know me personally, know I am the most brutal with myself. A moment this last weekend was a perfect example of that. I made myself cry. But it was a wake up call I needed.

I would like to think I have found a way to balance my direct honest approach with some semblance of sensitivity (which I tend to be lacking in spades) and a broad sense of humour, coupled with a huge ability to laugh at myself first.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:51:36 AM)

~ Fast Reply ~
 
"Can I be honest with you?" (damn - does that mean until now you've been lying to me?!?)

"Okay - Now I'm gonna be totally honest..." (SEE ABOVE and add; oh shit - this is the last conversation I'm going to have with this person!)

When I'm talking with someone and hear these comment preface disclaimers, I can't help but think; "Wow, and here I thought that's what you were doing all along." After all - I am. Are honest friendships so rare that people see value at holding people close to them with the glue of lies, half-truths, and enabling comments?

It seems the most disarming thing you can do to many people is to hold up a mirror. I never understand why, doing so, creates so much animosity. It's not a case of "misunderstanding" its understanding VERY clearly and saying - this is the clear vision I'm seeing. There isn't a requirement for agreement, or seeing it the same way; that would be boring. However, how about a confident - "Yup - I can see how I'm projecting that image - so what!?"

Why the attempt so much to 'fit in' and be apart of a majority? Why are so many people seeking validation from a disembodied community of internet people? More confusing is why someone's words in conflict can produce such a negative reaction and response. Don't YOU believe in YOU? Aren't YOU sure that no matter how it appears to someone else, YOU are confident in yourself and the manner you choose to live?

If heaven is a place where everyone sees everything the exact same way and is in total alignment of thought I'm THRILLED to be going to hell: as promised by the 'one true way' rules established during my Catholic upbringing. The way I see it, being in a place filled with head bobbers while the Cherubim sing in 3 part harmony, describes hell. Obviously for me, CM provides a more personal 'heavenly' interaction of disagreement and nay-saying. All it takes to enjoy it is a bit of confidence.

"To be brutally honest"(lol).... how we live is our choice. There are too many practices and parts of our daily life to mention that fall outside the participating 'norm' and outside the opinion of the majority. Third person speech, 24/7, no outside work/career for beth, even our personal reference to each other as Master and slave; are but a few. Spend some time with us, and you'll discover many more that are so routine for us, we don't even think of them as 'lifestyle' choices any more. Challenge us and sure - we'll defend our position; not saying that it is 'THE' way but standing behind the fundamentals as 'OUR' way. Mock, or allude to certain aspects as silly, naive, not possible, or not the 'one true way' and we'll laugh, and most likely (Merc) give a sarcastic reply. Hold up the clearest and most critical mirror and again, we'll smile and perhaps even laugh again, and say - "Yup, that's us!"

What stops more people from doing the same?



KnightofMists -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:53:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

theory:
honesty= to help others
brutal honesty= to hurt others


This speaks of intent.... of why one uses approach A over B..... I don't think you can simplify all brutal honest events with the intent of a person want to hurt them.    Yes... I agree that many do have that intent.  I think also they can have an intent not to care what a person feels, the truth is what matters.  I think also their is the intent that the given approach is needed because only that approach will be effective to reaching the person (and sometimes that is true, sometimes not)... there are various intents/motivations for a given behavior...



LaTigresse -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:56:59 AM)

Merc, that reminds me of a phrase I've said so many times when asked for my opinion. "Do you want the truth/my honest opinion, or what I think you want to hear?"



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:57:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527


quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
what is the difference between honesty and brutal honesty?


I'm not even going to apologize for giving the obvious answer here.... brutality.

That is also my answer to your question missturbation... I desperately try to avoid brutality unless it is my intention that only one of us walks away from whatever the situation is.


I really like this answer, and Leader's previous post.  It seems to me, there is a great deal of wisdom in that approach.



JustDarkness -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 10:58:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

theory:
honesty= to help others
brutal honesty= to hurt others


This speaks of intent.... of why one uses approach A over B..... I don't think you can simplify all brutal honest events with the intent of a person want to hurt them.    Yes... I agree that many do have that intent.  I think also they can have an intent not to care what a person feels, the truth is what matters.  I think also their is the intent that the given approach is needed because only that approach will be effective to reaching the person (and sometimes that is true, sometimes not)... there are various intents/motivations for a given behavior...


true

that is why I put op the theory label.
I just think if you want to be honest...be honest. There is no need to be brutal honest in most cases. It seems people like to add that little brutal touch for soem reason.
I did that in the past too. But now I see it does more bad then good..and I tell them just mu opinion...with out that extra little pain causing. Mostly honesty gives already to many a little shock.



JustDarkness -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 11:00:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
I really like this answer, and Leader's previous post.  It seems to me, there is a great deal of wisdom in that approach.


actually my question was meant to make people think about the difference...why they use it...and why it is needed..and what both cause
that doesn't work always...lol



Missokyst -> RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! (10/13/2008 11:01:31 AM)

I find women to be more brutal than men.  Women can cut someone to shreds before they are aware of what is happening.  It doesn't matter if they state their orientation is submissive, dominant, or vanilla.  It is the way they interact.  Check out the different cliques in high schools for instance.  Among friends they can be very supportive, but outside the group, other women are fair game.  It is one of the reasons I choose to have male friends.
I do find a slight difference in dominant vs submissive responses on forums though.  Dominants tend to state things as if only their way is correct.  They tend to negate any other viewpoint.  And, whether or not this is a submissive thing, I do note that when a so called "respected" poster is the one proposing the idea, that submissives will suddenly change stance and placate.  For me this is dishonest.. and oddly enough relates back to those high school cliques.  People always want to hang out with the popular crowd.
Kyst



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