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RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/22/2007 6:04:16 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

Wow, THAT was a blast from the past...

I saw Taggard, Thorns, iwillseveu, Erusvi, Berlin... that was like a time warp.

(ahem.)

I don't use contracts. I use a collar.

Some people need contracts as a communication tool. If it works, great. Communication in any form is better than none. Contracts are especially useful for short term agreements, or casual agreements where 24/7 D/s expectations are unrealistic or undesired.

Stephan

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Post #: 101

RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/22/2007 6:25:42 AM

Usako

Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
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The more I read through this site the more I find it hella funny.

As if someone who agrees to join someone as a slave has no free will of their own. I cannot fathom how anyone would expect another human being to not think for themselves. I even found it dumb founding when there was legal slavery back in the day, expect you're actully wanting to people to LIKE not being treated like a human being.

Of course, if someone signs on to be a slave they're giving themselves to someone else; however to actually expect them to never think on their own again is silly.

The way you make it sound some master could just kill their slave if they so saw fit.

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Post #: 102

RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/22/2007 6:41:56 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

(coughs)

Usako,

You obviously have a number of very clear ideas about what slavery is and isn't. That's a good thing. What is bad, is that what you believe slavery is, has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I'm sure you're irritated now. Good, I hope this means you'll read the next few thoughts.

Slavery refers to total power exchange (TPE, also known as APE.) It means that the slave willingly consents to surrendering their authority to the Dominant. Why they do it, is irrelavent right now.

There are slaves who desire to be owned 'as if' it was legal. They wish to wear collars, be branded, and given very strict rules to follow. They -want- this. They do -not- want to be treated like human beings. In fact, it's more common that the slave is more interested in having their rights, identity, and personality stripped away than the dominant is.

For all this, I've never met a dominant who wanted a slave incapable of thinking for themselves. I've never met a dominant in real life who advocated the right to kill their slave. Just because a slave wants to be held as a slave, doesn't mean they are not protected by the law. Nobody can voluntarily surrender their constitutional rights (in the US) no matter how much they wish otherwise.

Stephan

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Post #: 103

RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/22/2007 6:53:33 AM

Usako

Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
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Some might want that, others might not.

I just find the first post (and a lot of posts on this site) amusing since it's like you people expect ALL people who want to be a slave to never think for themselves again.

That's where so many damn rude messages on this site come from. People expecting someone who is submissive or a slave to not think at all. I think people are their own people until they enter into a contract (every agreement in life is a contract) and agree to do such and such and such.

Though, I don't think anyone can 100% turn off their emotions/thoughts/ideas...it's human nature to some how want to be ourselves. Yes, maybe oneself is being a slave, but you were something before that. A daughter, son, wife, husband; I can't fathom how you just turn that off to be treated like dirt. Or if you can, how you can never, EVER, be expected to think for yourself again.

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Post #: 104

RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/22/2007 7:00:10 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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I'm sorry, but you're flat wrong.

I challenge you to find three posts where the submissive is not expected to think for herself.

We ask submissives to think all the time. We expect them to decide what they can and can't handle, what they want, how they want it, and we even demand to know why they want it.

I think you're confusing the opportunity to think, with the opportunity to act. Submissives have to intellectually make the decision to obey, not just once but each and every time. If they didn't desire to be controlled this way, they wouldn't be in a D/s relationship in the first place.

I wouldn't want a mindless, vapid slave. I can get a brainless bimbo any night of the week if I want. A woman who exudes intelligence, beauty, and devotion is what I enjoy. If she isn't permitted to think for herself, than the very qualities that make her attractive (creativity, enthusiasm, curiosity) would be wasted and eventually disappear.

Stephan

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Post #: 105

RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/22/2007 7:10:19 AM

Usako

Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
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"why slaves would want or even be allowed a contract?"

That line in the first post irked me, it came off, to me, that just because someone is a slave they're not expected to want. And wanting, to me, is a basic human emotion that we all have because we all think for ourselves.

That's just how it came off to me. I didn't read all five pages, I did skim a few though. But I've seen people say the sort of thing in their profile, and have gotten messages along the same line.

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Post #: 106

RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/22/2007 7:15:31 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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So calling them dumb, and lumping 'us' all together proves...what exactly?

Stephan

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Post #: 107

RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/22/2007 7:27:25 AM

Usako

Posts: 697
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From: NYC
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I never called anyone dumb, I said I find it dumb founding.

And I never lumped anyone together.

All my comments were general statements, I never named any names or said "Oh well, everyone here is stupid" or something.

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Post #: 108

RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/22/2007 8:01:10 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Usako

I never called anyone dumb, I said I find it dumb founding.

And I never lumped anyone together.

All my comments were general statements, I never named any names or said "Oh well, everyone here is stupid" or something.

quote:

I just find the first post (and a lot of posts on this site) amusing since it's like you people expect

I feel pretty lumped.

have a really hard time trying to work out why slaves would want or even be allowed a contract?

This statement was actually made by a slave, not a dominant.

She wasn't saying slaves shouldn't be able to think for themselves. She's asking why a contract is necessary, since she doesn't feel the need for one.

I think you would benefit greatly from visiting http://castlerealm.com - it's an excellent site to learn from for those who have little or no experience in the BDSM lifestyle, and are genuinely interested in learning more about it. There's a lot to read there, and may take you a few weeks.

Stephan

< Message edited by Stephann -- 6/22/2007 8:07:10 AM >

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Post #: 109

RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/22/2007 8:02:28 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

I am Jack's raging doublepost.

< Message edited by Stephann -- 6/22/2007 8:06:29 AM >

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Post #: 110