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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 10:23:01 AM   
kittinSol


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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 10:27:29 AM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
It made me feel really crappy to get snarky comments from the man filling my prescriptions.
'Oh are you a junkie?'             that was just one comment from him because I take rather heavy duty pain medication. I can't imagine the crap he would have said if I were taking something for Herpes or AIDS.

Damn right it upsets me to be judged by the medication I have to take.

I ended up driving 48 miles one way to a different pharmacy just before moving.



I know just what you mean! I'm on some heavy duty stuff too - and it would be true to say I'm addicted, but that doesnt mean I'm a drug addict! Thing is, if you take pain medication in the form of opiates for a while, you get addicted, dead simple. I dont see it as a moral failing on my part to not want the full excruciating pain of arthritis 24/7 and I dont expect to be judged on that by anyone who hasnt lived it a while.

Mind you, its funny as hell when they fill my hormone prescriptions. Far too bewildered to make a judgement on that one.

E

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 12:26:40 PM   
MasterVirago


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Status: offline 		Well, I wonder if those some pharmacies would not sell those items if they didn't receive money from Medicaid and Medicare patients.

Not that I would necessarily agree with this, but I think the govt does have a right to say, if you cannot fill prescriptions of people whose medical care is covered by the US govt for ALL of their needs then you cannot fill any of their prescriptions. Especially in rural and lower-income areas where they may have fewer choices. Maybe it could be based on counties that don't offer other alternatives.

But it seems to me that one way to reduce abortions is to offer contraceptives.

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 12:44:39 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Racism is a big part of our National Drug Policy, since the congressional testimony of our first Drug Czar, Henry Anslinger, waaaay back in 1937.
 
it makes about as much sense to include religious dogma into policies with regards to drugs as well, doesn't it?

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 2:03:51 PM   
AquaticSub


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Status: offline 		I say more power to them! It gets the people who are uncomfortable filling birth control and the morning after pill out of CVS and the drug stores where I go.

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 2:06:08 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Refusing to dispense a medication dictated by a Doctor is refusing  something and as I stated before, not everyone can just go to another store...see above references.

Not refusing to dispense, refusing to sell.

A merchant has an absolute right to decide what he will and will not sell. The customer has an absolute right whether or not to buy from said merchant.

The pharmacist is a merchant before he is a healthcare professional, not after. Don't like the pharmacist? Go somewhere else, or buy over the Internet.

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 2:23:48 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Refusing to dispense a medication dictated by a Doctor is refusing  something and as I stated before, not everyone can just go to another store...see above references.

Not refusing to dispense, refusing to sell.

A merchant has an absolute right to decide what he will and will not sell. The customer has an absolute right whether or not to buy from said merchant.

The pharmacist is a merchant before he is a healthcare professional, not after. Don't like the pharmacist? Go somewhere else, or buy over the Internet.


indeed.  there isn't ONE merchant/pharmacist in the entire state of California that is willing or able, according to their corporate policies, to dispense the medication that this slave's MD has recommended, in full accordance with California State Law (H&S 11362.5).
 
they won't stock it...and they don't have to.
 
an MD's recommendation/prescription doesn't come with a guarantee from any merchant/pharmacy.

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 2:25:35 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Aren’t chemists licensed if so are they meeting their licence agreement by selecting what services they provide? This is all nothing new I see laws changing soon in relation to this.

Personally I think there is a distinction between a pharmacy providing an alternative drug and a pharmacy not supplying any drug at all, I wouldn't class that as a pharmacy and I'd ask trading standards to investigate this false advertising. Is a petrol station a petrol station if it only sells car washes? All or nothing at all that is my belief.
 

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/30/2008 2:32:48 PM >

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 3:19:56 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Personally I think there is a distinction between a pharmacy providing an alternative drug and a pharmacy not supplying any drug at all, I wouldn't class that as a pharmacy and I'd ask trading standards to investigate this false advertising. Is a petrol station a petrol station if it only sells car washes? All or nothing at all that is my belief.

 
technically, a pharmacy is a place where drugs are sold, a "drug" store.
 
in California, the owners (the ones making the policies about what they will or will not sell) are not examined, nor do they have to be pharmacists.
 
the licensing is highly regulated by the state, including a requirement for a "pharmacist-in-charge" to run the place who has met certain criteria.  there is no requirement that any pharmacy stock every drug an MD, licensed by the state and following state laws, could possibly write a recommendation/prescription for.

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 3:22:22 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Refusing to dispense a medication dictated by a Doctor is refusing  something and as I stated before, not everyone can just go to another store...see above references.

Not refusing to dispense, refusing to sell.

A merchant has an absolute right to decide what he will and will not sell. The customer has an absolute right whether or not to buy from said merchant.

The pharmacist is a merchant before he is a healthcare professional, not after. Don't like the pharmacist? Go somewhere else, or buy over the Internet.

So a doctor that has his own practice is a businessman and therefore also has the right to make moral judgements and refuse to treat a patient?


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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 3:30:09 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Refusing to dispense a medication dictated by a Doctor is refusing  something and as I stated before, not everyone can just go to another store...see above references.

Not refusing to dispense, refusing to sell.

A merchant has an absolute right to decide what he will and will not sell. The customer has an absolute right whether or not to buy from said merchant.

The pharmacist is a merchant before he is a healthcare professional, not after. Don't like the pharmacist? Go somewhere else, or buy over the Internet.

So a doctor that has his own practice is a businessman and therefore also has the right to make moral judgements and refuse to treat a patient?



not to answer for Celtic or anything,  but since when is an MD, operating his own practice, under any obligation to treat someone (who isn't bleeding to death in front of him/her) just because they seek out his/her medical advice?

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 3:35:17 PM   
sirsholly


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From: Quietville
Status: offline 		he is probably under no obligation, but does he have the right to judge the patient or to impose his religious/moral beliefs onto those who seek his help.
And why draw the line on a patient bleeding to death in front of him? Refusal to treat is refusal to treat.


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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 3:38:20 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Not yet no but this lunacy hasn't yet got to the point where so called pharmacists start stocking herbal remedies as alternatives and pushing those onto people. It's a fine line and needs more regulation IMO, and certain drugs should be made compulsory for a pharmacist to stock in order to be licensed as a pharmacist. We all know what those drugs would be and saying they can't possibly supply all drugs a doctor writes a prescription for is a cop out. We know the controversial drugs that should be stocked.

So how do you check they aren’t saying they are out of stock to get around the issue? If it was down to me I would send inspectors into the place and request the drug, if they say they are out of stock on more than three occasions they lose their license. We know people manipulate the law for their own ends but there are easy ways to enforce it.

As you say it's not part of the law as yet but I predict tighter controls will come into place in the future and a pharmacist will only be able to advertise themselves as such if they follow the set code written into law by those that make the law not those that take it upon themselves to make it. If anyone has objections they should find another job, it's that simple, that black and white. Lawmakers make the law and you live with it or you opt out of it and do something else for a living.

I have a spiritual objection to paying tax we Nonfiscalists deplore our wealth being taken from us but can we object nooo apparently not.
 

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 9:02:58 PM   
NuevaVida


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Hi holly, thanks for the reply, and I'll try to reply the best I can.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
My first question is, for those who live in rural areas, are mail ordered drugs not an option?

Generally not. When i have a script that needs filled i usually need it NOW.  Sending a script for an antibiotic when i have a bladder infection is not an option. Us rural folk drive...to the doctors office...pharmacy...adult toy store...


Me too. And my doctor usually has samples to get me through until I can get my prescription filled. Not always, but usually. And if you're already driving an hour for your prescription, how does that change when a "limited" pharmacy opens closer?

quote:


And, in case people don't know it, there are pharmacies all over the country that don't dole out drugs people need. Anyone ever need compound drugs? That's where you don't get a set "standard" dose of something, but a dose suitable for your particular body and needs. I live in a fairly metropolitan area (Sacramento) and when I needed a compound drug I had a choice of TWO places to go - one is an hour away, the other is 40 minutes away.


quote:


This is different. You are talking about availability vs a moral judgement.



Once again, the availability doesn't change if a "faith based" pharmacy opens closer to you. Nothing about the way you get your current drugs changes at all.


quote:


My second thought is, OK, so let's do away with the faith based pharmacy. Then there would be NO pharmacy. Would that be better?

no pharmacy? There are pharmacists out there that do not subject their moral beliefs on others.
quote:




I don't think I worded it well. You live in the town of Ruralville. There is a pharmacy you go to - the closest one available - that exists in OutThereVille. A new, "faith based" pharmacy opens in your local town, where you can get your antibiotics, albuterol, cough medicine with codeine...you know, basic stuff. But it is closed because the locals don't like that they will only dole out limited meds, because they are faith based. So now there is no more pharmacy in Ruralville and you have to go back to driving to OutThereVille for your basic meds.

Is that better?

quote:


My third thought is, there are faith based doctors. Should we do away with them, too? What our constitution states is freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
quote:


we all have freedom of religion, and does this not include freedom from prejudice because of our chosen religion?  How would you feel if a doctor refused to treat you because of you religious beliefs, or his?

I would go to another doctor.

Freedom of prejudice? I think that's a stretch, unless I'm not seeing something you are intending to communicate here. If I see a doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) because it's the closest doctor available and I want to see what he can do, is he prejudiced for not buying into the modern healthcare system? Or is he simply a doctor who wants to practice what he believes in, knowing I the consumer have a choice of whether to go to him or not?

quote:



quote:


 What happens when other faiths can not dispense the alternative drugs that people need/prefer? Do we really want our government deciding these things? I know I don't.

Here is a hard line stance...if the pharmacist is going to demonstrate prejudice because of his/her religion then he/she needs to find a new line of work.


Why? We can't have faith based businesses? You just closed all the religious bookstores in this country if that's the case.

quote:


quote:


I really doubt this country is at risk of faith based pharmacies taking over the industry and doing away with these drugs altogether.


i agree. But you have to remember this issue can and might just set a precedent. Where will it end? Will  we have to hide our religious/moral beliefs to recieve needed health care from doctors and pharmacists who feel they have the right to judge?



No, you'll have to decide where you want to shop for the products you want. Not everyone is going to sell what we want. I can't buy certain products at Whole Foods because they won't buy into the current farming practices, and they won't sell products with Splenda or Aspartame, based on their own corporate principles. Are they being prejudice? Should we close their stores because they don't sell what everyone wants, based on their moral code?

You see. the pendulum swings in both directions. You ask, where will it end? And I ask the same, in the other direction.

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/30/2008 9:58:04 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I only skimmed the first couple of pages because I'm short on time, so my apologies if this has already been said. I'm speaking as a non-christian person here and I'm supportive of the practice of faith-based businesses. And that's what a pharmacy is - a business. My first question is, for those who live in rural areas, are mail ordered drugs not an option?



I spend over one thousand dollars a month for medication.

None are available through the mail, before I moved I was in a rural area with very limited choices in pharmacies for the first six years.

It made me feel really crappy to get snarky comments from the man filling my prescriptions.
'Oh are you a junkie?'             that was just one comment from him because I take rather heavy duty pain medication. I can't imagine the crap he would have said if I were taking something for Herpes or AIDS.

Damn right it upsets me to be judged by the medication I have to take.

I ended up driving 48 miles one way to a different pharmacy just before moving.



Hi Camillle,

I'm sorry you've gone through what you have. What you said kind of reminded me of that scene in Magnolia where Julianna Moore's character was in the pharmacy being questioned for the prescription she was picking up. It's awful and I can't imagine being in that position.

However, I don't see faith based pharmacies taking anything away from the existing pharmacies that people can choose from...do they? Will a faith based pharmacy change the way you currently receive your medications?

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/31/2008 3:41:01 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGIONAL: NuevaVida
Why can't we have faith based businesses?


Nueva, you have excellent points and i will never argue that faith based businesses have every right to be in business. If a pharmacist with his own business wants to be selective about what he/she stocks on their shelves, more power to them.
However, one of the jobs of a pharmacist is to dispense the medications prescribed to the patient by their doctor. It is not their job to decide the morality of the drug or whether or not the patient should have it.


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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/31/2008 4:07:54 AM   
MadameMarque


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Status: offline 		Now, by faith-based drugstores, do you mean Christian Science drugstores, where they pray over you by prescription, or do you mean the drugstores that dispense the placebos that apparently medical doctors have been prescribing patients for decades, on the theory that our faith in their expertise, alone, will heal us?

In either case, I'm sure you can get some fine birth control, there.

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/31/2008 5:13:06 AM   
candystripper


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Status: offline 		puella, I certainly do not mean to disrespect your faith, but what business does my pharamcist have telling me I cannot have medication which my MD has scripted for me?  Isn't it the obligation of the supporting medical staff to follow the doctor's orders?
 
Naturally it's the Catholics again.  Good grief, will they never give up?  I do not understand this hatred for the sexally active or desire to see unwanted children born.  I wish they'd mind their own store....maybe do a bit more investigating of priests and nuns who abused UMs and leave the community alone when it's not a matter of faith.
 
I should not have to have someone else's faith impinge on my private life.  Period.  The Catholics do not seem willing to accept this...and why we don't take them to the woodshed for their meddling is beyond me.  I cannot imagine Muslims or Pagans getting away with this sort of crap.
 
candystripper  

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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/31/2008 6:20:18 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

puella, I certainly do not mean to disrespect your faith, but what business does my pharamcist have telling me I cannot have medication which my MD has scripted for me?  Isn't it the obligation of the supporting medical staff to follow the doctor's orders?
 
Naturally it's the Catholics again.  Good grief, will they never give up?  I do not understand this hatred for the sexally active or desire to see unwanted children born.  I wish they'd mind their own store....maybe do a bit more investigating of priests and nuns who abused UMs and leave the community alone when it's not a matter of faith.
 
I should not have to have someone else's faith impinge on my private life.  Period.  The Catholics do not seem willing to accept this...


WHOA...a bit rough on one certain religion here, aren't you?
There are many organized religions out there that have issues with many different medications. Catholics/birth control are just one of many.
And please keep in mind..it is the individual (ie the pharmacist) that is in question here. Many pharmacists of the catholic faith are out there doing their job with no prejudice displayed to any faith or nationality.


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RE: Faith based drug stores.... - 10/31/2008 6:21:57 AM   
puella


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Status: offline 		Hi candystripper,

no offense taken and I am no longer a practicing Catholic (or obviously, a nun!), but I do believe it would effect more than just Catholics, or even christians... think Scientology and anti-depressants...  I actually am kinda with you on this point.  I really see it as someone coming between the direct orders of a physician and a patient (something, BTW that the press and law enforcement are not allowed to do to look into records).  It is not a matter of what you are choosing to sell in your store, IMHO.  If you choose to install a pharmacy which will, by very nature, fill prescriptions, you must do so without using religion to pick and choose which prescriptions doctors are allowed to give to patients.... not filling some because of religion is making a choice as to which prescriptions are moral and which are not (again, in my opinion).  If they don't want to sell lube and condoms... that is something entirely different. 

< Message edited by puella -- 10/31/2008 6:22:59 AM >

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