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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 7:25:21 PM   
amandathatsme


Posts: 8
Joined: 7/4/2009
Status: offline 		wow with all of these replys about the rape sex thing makes me feel good because i thought i was the only female thinking and loving of that. for a moment i though i was crazy for thinking of that but i guess am not, so thank you! lol

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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 7:31:54 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Wrought through sexual acts. Using "control" is nonsensical, because every crime is non-consensual, ergo, using your logic, every crime is a crime of "control". Which makes using the descriptor (even if we take your notion at face value) superfluous.
tell it to the experts then. The last i heard they were even leading away from a crime of violence and leaning more toward control.

I can try to find the link


You are absolutely correct, Ms. Holly.  Among other things, rapists often do not ejaculate, even though they are physically able to do so.  I can see how the phrase "rape is not a sex crime" would seem ludicrous from a layperson's perspective, but the psychological issue is one of motivation.  A foot fetishist who steals shoes (as happened in a dorm here a year ago) is committing a sex crime, as his motivation was primarily sexual.  By contrast, it appears that most rapists are driven by a need to control, punish, conquer women -- not to have sex with them.  The sex is just the tool used to subjugate.


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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 10:44:43 AM   
Leonidas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

You are absolutely correct, Ms. Holly.  Among other things, rapists often do not ejaculate, even though they are physically able to do so.  I can see how the phrase "rape is not a sex crime" would seem ludicrous from a layperson's perspective, but the psychological issue is one of motivation.  A foot fetishist who steals shoes (as happened in a dorm here a year ago) is committing a sex crime, as his motivation was primarily sexual.  By contrast, it appears that most rapists are driven by a need to control, punish, conquer women -- not to have sex with them.  The sex is just the tool used to subjugate.



How often is "often" and where are you getting this information?  For that matter, where are you getting any of this information, or is this just "what everybody knows"?

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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 11:08:57 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

How often is "often" and where are you getting this information?  For that matter, where are you getting any of this information, or is this just "what everybody knows"?

Many socio-psych deconstructions do have an interesting habit of pigeonholing the entirety of the phenomenon into the one dimensional box of control/subjugation, when varying motivations (and the obvious presence of a sexual act involved where it's superfluous to anything truly bent simply on control) are always in play.

I'd linked to an article by an NYU Ecology and Evolution professor, Massimo Pigliucci earlier, but apparently I'd pasted the wrong url. It's actually here.

In addition, the effect of the act on the victim should be separately considered from the foggy attempts to bring the rapist's intentions into reductionism and (presumably) explanation...in which case fixating solely on a control issue (even if it is usually applicable) avoids the most intimate violation from the view of the victim and will paint a perpetrator's reasons straight into one answer before it's even checked to see if it applies.

And people can get upset about this because it can be seen as defending the criminal, if we say that it is poor logic to automatically paint all sex crimes, right off the bat, as control issues in the same way that someone with a more vanilla life outlook would claim all practitioners of BDSM engage in the acts due to psychological trauma (except the percentage of times that correlation would be correct is likely far less than applying the rape hypothesis).

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/8/2009 11:10:16 AM >

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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 11:54:50 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
How often is "often" and where are you getting this information?  For that matter, where are you getting any of this information, or is this just "what everybody knows"?

Here's one link.  I won't debate the topic; it could go on forever.  As long as you believe in acting consensual to the women you're with, I'm cool.

http://living.oneindia.in/men/he/why-men-rape-psychology.html


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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 12:01:45 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
How often is "often" and where are you getting this information?  For that matter, where are you getting any of this information, or is this just "what everybody knows"?

Here's one link.  I won't debate the topic; it could go on forever.  As long as you believe in acting consensual to the women you're with, I'm cool.

http://living.oneindia.in/men/he/why-men-rape-psychology.html

here is another one

www.darkness2light.org/KnowAbout/articles_male_rape.asp


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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 12:31:24 PM   
abuddingdom


Posts: 158
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Status: offline 		Away back in 69, my first bottom(who, in her mid-30's was much older than me , loved(& I mean loooooved) rapeplay. Couldnt get enough of the stuff. & so did I&neither could I, so we made a good fit for a long time. This discussion has gone into places far from the original post(which  a)I'm not criticising - I'm pretty new on the discussion boards & I've noted that thats quite often what happens & b)  I find it interesting that this thread started years ago&was recently revived)but to boil all of the intellectual debates down to a simple way of putting it : women fantasizing about rape, including a not small percentage of former rape victims, not only  isnt unusual  but this fact is hardly a secret&shouldnt be suprising. The woman I spoke of wasnt a rape victim but in her teens was once for several hours  taken advantage of in a bondage game. She also loved  lengthy strict&tight bondage(& gaggage) scenes(we of course didnt call them scenes back then). & she was fully aware of where her cravings originated. One of the first things my ex-wife confided in me what that she'd " always had a thing about rape&would like to play around with it" but she sure didnt want to get raped.  It's a common fantasy.

Ironically,  for 4 decades I rarely had trouble finding ready&willing women with whom to do it ( though admittedly for almost half that time I was ina committed marriage&wasnt seeking) , but upon entering the lifestyle going on 3 years ago I personally havent found one woman in the lifestyle who desired it. On the contrary, most have arguments against it. My pretty one isnt a fan but used to play it it  to please me but I recognise how stressful it is for her& havent pushed it ina long time. I do kinda miss it, but in the bigger picture she's more than there in so many other ways in submitting to me & this is the way it is.  Today.......


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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 1:42:58 PM   
variation30


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BLGirl

I absolutely love rape play. The struggle, pain, and eventual humiliation involved, is fabulous


my kinda girl.

and yeah, rape fantasies are very popular in both men and women.


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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 1:45:40 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Quick reply:

I have had rape fantasies for as long as I can remember. I have gang rape fantasies as well. Those are probably even more common than the one on one variety. My owner says that it has been a commonly expressed fantasy in women he has known. I know I risk being burned at the stake here but I'm not sure I'd term my fantasies as "play" oriented if that makes any sense. I find the idea of it being "play" kind of a buzz kill. I'm not sure how else to put it but the idea of him or them not "meaning" it for lack of a better term takes something away from it for me.

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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 1:52:37 PM   
Muirren


Posts: 79
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Status: offline 		I'm in the same boat Amanda. I love it, especially if a man knows how to do it right. But sometimes finding him is the problem.

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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 1:56:52 PM   
variation30


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GirlGenius

TO ROVER, JOHN, BLGIRL, ANGELA-

I am deeply dissapointed that you feel you can speak for, "most" or "70%" of women, where you have decided based on whatever personal experience you have that, that a rape fantasy is that common.


if you have access to any psych databases I could give you a few citations of studies that found this in their samples.


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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 1:57:20 PM   
Leonidas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
How often is "often" and where are you getting this information?  For that matter, where are you getting any of this information, or is this just "what everybody knows"?

Here's one link.  I won't debate the topic; it could go on forever.  As long as you believe in acting consensual to the women you're with, I'm cool.

http://living.oneindia.in/men/he/why-men-rape-psychology.html



Yeah, it's not necessary to debate it endlessly.  The article that you site here, and other article sited below don't really get into any specifics about the "facts" that you've regurgitated as if they were scientific truth.  One source that these articles draw on is a 30 year old book that wasn't based on any kind of systematic, scientific study, rather, it it based on the clinical experience of one man.  In other words, what he related in his book are his impressions of why men rape based on what the offenders he was working with told him.

There are two problems with that.  One is that the offenders that he was working with might not be able to adequately explain why they did it beyond the fact that they felt compelled to, though if you press them for a reason they could probably come up with one.  An analogy is asking the sadist at your friendly neighborhood play party why he likes to hurt people.  Is it a control thing, is it a power thing, is it cause he got beat up a lot in school and he's taking vicarious revenge on willing submissives?  He probably can't tell you, and even if he tries, his answer might not be so accurate.  He likes to hurt people.

Second problem is that because the work is not "blind" it's almost certainly colored by the preconceptions of the observer (in this case, the psychologist who wrote the book).  As he's talking to these offenders, he's going to tend to notice those things that reinforce his pre-concieved notions, and discount or disregard those things that don't.  This is a well known problem, and why "blind" studies are the norm in scientific inquiry.

Bottom line, I'm fine with you having your own belief system about why rapists rape.  I'd just caution you to be a little careful about stating your beliefs as if they were irrefutable fact, though.  When it comes to "soft" sciences like psychology, irrefutable facts are pretty hard to come by, and the things that were thought to be a decade ago might be widely discounted ten years from now.

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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 2:40:16 PM   
dreamerdreaming


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Status: offline 		Fast Reply:



We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread....

Rape fantasies are sweet. Rape play can be just as sweet, or better than the dream...


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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 4:06:42 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GirlGenius

TO ROVER, JOHN, BLGIRL, ANGELA-

I am deeply dissapointed that you feel you can speak for, "most" or "70%" of women, where you have decided based on whatever personal experience you have that, that a rape fantasy is that common.

who the H** do you think you are?

You don't get to prescribe what you think the world thinks. Since it is scientifically impossible to have been with 70% of ALL WOMEN, you don't really get the right to say what they want.

Rape fantasies are in my experience rare.

I hate that you said these things. It bothers me that you think you know so much, when clearly what you are saying is 100% impossible to prove.

Please think about the statements you have made and wonder why a woman like me would be totally 100% in disagreement with you.

I find your comments wrong, irresponsible, and ignorant and even possibly, subversive and hurtful to people.


findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_1_45/ai_n24383385/pg_4

Rape fantasies are not nearly as rare as you think. This article states between 31-57% of women admit to those fantasies. I strongly suspect the percentage is much higher, as there is a stigma associated with rape fantasies that prevent women from admitting to them.

The posters you mentioned in the above post are entitled to their opinions as much as you and I. Whereas you find their comment to be "wrong, irresponsible, blah blah blah", I found their posts, as usual, to be well thought out and interesting.


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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 4:26:04 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GirlGenius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I believe that rape fantasies constitute the most common sexual fantasy amongst all women. 

I'm just curious, but can you prove this flagrantly unprovable statement?




Rover CLEARLY stated his statement is his belief. He has to prove nothing.


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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 4:37:13 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		"Forced" sex is the A#1 thing women request of me.  Beyond that, a "nilla" friend of mine told me this morning -- she knows I'm whacked -- that she and her boyfriend had sex where she said "no, no" and he went ahead with it anyway (all planned out beforehand) and it was amazingly hot.  She asked for book ideas, and I sent her the link to ResidentSadist's BDSM book list thread. She was happy.

I've heard, "Do you think you can handle me and put me in my place?" or "You won't let me walk all over you, will you?" much more often than I've heard, "You won't do too much, will you?"  In fact, I once posted --because I was a bit freaked and wanted advice -- that a rape victim specifically wanted me to duplicate part of the "scene" she had with her attacker.  So I think these fantasies are super-common, at least among women with poor enough taste to think I might be attractive.


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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 6:09:13 PM   
MissJanice2


Posts: 178
Joined: 3/4/2009
Status: offline 		You may love rape play, but I think this is most disqusting play we do.  This Domme will not allow her slave or anyone else to participate in it.
I was at a Dungeon scene once where I saw a gang rape scene go bad.   It almost made me physically sick. 
Rape scenes are very brutal and humilating.  I cannot stand to see women victimized whether by choice of forced.     
It is hard to control a bunch of Dom/mes when that kind of energy gets going.
I never went back to the Dungeon again.   I think it closed shortly after that event.  
 
Regards,
 
Mistress_Jan

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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 7:18:07 PM   
slaveboy291


Posts: 329
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Status: offline 		As long as it's play, whatever floats your boat I guess.

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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/8/2009 8:28:59 PM   
janiebelle


Posts: 332
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quote:

ORIGINAL: irresistiblforce

But the thought of raping someone for real, it's just one of the most unimaginably wrong things I can think of, right up with beating someone up for the cash in their wallet.  It's just so... inconsiderate.



"Inconsiderate"???
I've heard some understatement in my day, but this takes the fucking biscuit.
j

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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/9/2009 3:10:19 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: janiebelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: irresistiblforce

But the thought of raping someone for real, it's just one of the most unimaginably wrong things I can think of, right up with beating someone up for the cash in their wallet.  It's just so... inconsiderate.



"Inconsiderate"???
I've heard some understatement in my day, but this takes the fucking biscuit.
j
inconsiderate? Why don't you just say it is rude?


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