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RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 6:15:27 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		how is this for a wrench toss into the works

are there differences between the many disciplines of slavery?

tazzy

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If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 6:35:34 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:


"Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need to do what they are told."


After much contemplation, I have successfully translated the above statement to mean:
 
"My girl is a slave, your's is just a submissive."
 
John

Ha! Brilliant!

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RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 7:31:13 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:


"Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need to do what they are told."


After much contemplation, I have successfully translated the above statement to mean:
 
"My girl is a slave, your's is just a submissive."
 
John

As I sad in the OP, this slogan bugs me no matter which way you slice it.  Because it is in two sentences, it seems there is a lot of writing between the lines.  I. E.

"Submissives need to be told what to do.  (In contrast to) Slaves need to do what they are told."

I agree with you that it seems to draw a line between them. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For others that have semantic fairy dust in their eyes, it may become more clear if you put the premise into action.  If that doesn’t clear up some of the foggy Zen concepts that are getting superimposed on this slogan, I give up.

"Submissives need to be told to wash. Slaves need to wash when they are told."

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 7:49:55 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

For others that have semantic fairy dust in their eyes, it may become more clear if you put the premise into action.  If that doesn’t clear up some of the foggy Zen concepts that are getting superimposed on this slogan, I give up.

"Submissives need to be told to wash. Slaves need to wash when they are told."


I'm not asking you to defend that statement, because I know you're just playing along with the thread.  
 
That said, why would I suppose that either submissives or slaves needed any instruction on my part?  Why would they not know enough to wash on their own, as needed? 
 
And why is there a missing word from both of those sentences.  The implication is clearly that ALL submissives need to be told to wash, and ALL need to wash when they are told. 
 
Interpreted in that fashion, the obvious "one true way" implication makes the entire premise a falsehood.
 
John

< Message edited by Rover -- 11/3/2008 7:50:46 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 7:59:48 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		I think its a hiearchy thing--like "pick me, pick me" I'm less trouble.
 
then again could be like "men are from mars, women are from venus"--we will never grasp the differences between the two.
 
I keep it simple, in my home, I'm in charge of everything--that makes me Dominant, that makes you not Dominant.
 
< you meaning any one else in My home, not YOU perseRS>

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 8:11:48 AM   
natasha66


Posts: 321
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: NJ
Status: offline 		This "my way or the highway" stuff ticks me off.  Ok, I need to stay off the boards today.  Obviously I am not in a "true submissive" state of mind.   And John, thank you for stating that, submissive, or slave, we actually do know when certain tasks are just, well, necessary - like washing.

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Collared June 4th, 2008
Love is giving him the power to destroy you, but trusting him not to.



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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 9:11:01 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

That said, why would I suppose that either submissives or slaves needed any instruction on my part?  Why would they not know enough to wash on their own, as needed?  
 

Sadly, I've known more than a few who didn't.  There have been other threads on "training" and this is one of the best arguments for training I know of... the fact that there are more than a few submissives out there who don't know the first thing about doing laundry, cleaning a house, doing minor repairs, cooking, setting a dinner table for even a semi-formal dinner, etc.

My experience has been, and its part of why I consider the phrase ridiculous, is that all submissives/slaves need to be told what to do and when to do it at some point, and all of them had better do as they are told or face the consequences (whatever that turns out to be).  So to me, the statement is a bit of an oxymoron, though I realize whomever came up with it probably had a clever meaning for it... pity they didn't leave us their footnotes.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 9:13:38 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Oooooh you bad, Padriag.  Whatcha gonna do?  Take their chocolates away?

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RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 9:19:46 AM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:


"Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need to do what they are told."


After much contemplation, I have successfully translated the above statement to mean:
 
"My girl is a slave, your's is just a submissive."
 
John


haha :) quite nice =p

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 9:26:22 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Oooooh you bad, Padriag.  Whatcha gonna do?  Take their chocolates away?

Nah... cut off their line of credit to my coffee shop.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 9:50:21 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For others that have semantic fairy dust in their eyes, it may become more clear if you put the premise into action.  If that doesn’t clear up some of the foggy Zen concepts that are getting superimposed on this slogan, I give up.

"Submissives need to be told to wash. Slaves need to wash when they are told."


I'm a little confused by this.  In your original post, you pose a question about the possible meanings of two sentences - which is largely my understanding of what semantics could be defined as.  Then you seem to be frustrated by the responses you are getting, and criticize a sect of those who have responded, by attempting to clear up the very sentence you claim not to understand yourself.  What am I missing here? 

WinD

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 11/3/2008 9:53:17 AM >

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 10:50:22 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Just askin':
 
How cum it's okay to bash submisssives but not anyone else?  I don't get what's up with the whole 'just a submissive', 'not a real slave' thing.  I mean 'just a switch', 'not a real Dom' would raise sand right?
 
Did submissives get left off the 'tolerate others' list?
 
candystripper 

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/3/2008 10:52:00 AM >

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 10:58:51 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
For others that have semantic fairy dust in their eyes, it may become more clear if you put the premise into action.  If that doesn’t clear up some of the foggy Zen concepts that are getting superimposed on this slogan, I give up.

"Submissives need to be told to wash. Slaves need to wash when they are told."

I'm not asking you to defend that statement, because I know you're just playing along with the thread.  

That said, why would I suppose that either submissives or slaves needed any instruction on my part?  Why would they not know enough to wash on their own, as needed? 

And why is there a missing word from both of those sentences.  The implication is clearly that ALL submissives need to be told to wash, and ALL need to wash when they are told. 

Interpreted in that fashion, the obvious "one true way" implication makes the entire premise a falsehood.

John

Forgive me, I could have been a bit more concise.  My example was as ambiguous as the original slogan.  Ambiguity was my point and I should have said so.  Nonetheless, I think “your slave is well washed but my submissive needs to be told when to wash”, or vice versa.

Thank you for pointing out the “all” factor.  One of things that fascinates me about this snappy slogan is how much can be written between the lines.  It is loaded with ambiguous innuendos and from the replies in this thread there seems to be a wealth of interpretations.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 11:00:54 AM   
justNCmale


Posts: 18
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline 		Maybe it's just as simple as a slave needs two whacks from the crop to obey and a sub needs three? hhhmmmm and if I enjoy it four or five each.

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Life is a choice and you need to respect both Dom and sub for their choosing a path, for without one we cannot have the other ....... SirJust

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 11:04:43 AM   
CookieSlave


Posts: 74
Joined: 7/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Anyone care to shed some light on this?

Because people like catchy phrases that sound meaningful... even if they aren't.


BINGO!
People are going to read into it and/or take out of it as much or as little as they want. It's kinda like... getting a tattoo.  It might mean something to you and you know exactly what it means, and it's in your heart and blahblah and to someone else, it could just be a silly fairy.  Me, I figure if someone's got that fairy(or that cute little cliche') they have a reason, and hey, whatever floats your boat.

The statement itself.. well, it's really just semantics.  All a matter of how you choose to interpret it.  I don't see the 2 halves as being *opposites*, so I don't see a point in contrasting the two.  I see them as *comparisons - differently-nuanced versions of the same thing.

--cs

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 11:08:06 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Please. Most of my women friends ouside of the "lifestyle" *hate that word don't have a clue as to proper
housework, cooking, ( I mean cooking, not pre-made bags of microwavable garbage) or any other form of domestic duties. That to me is just common sense and should be taught to all young people regardless of gender. I mean pity that hapless bachelor that invites a fetching young thing over and she sees he lives like a pig. I have dated men that were disgusting, slovenly and their apartments were a mess. Once. Just once. I am sorry, but utter laziness in either sex is inexcusable and at a certain age it is rather too late to teach someone the basic fundamentals of housework and cooking I think.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

That said, why would I suppose that either submissives or slaves needed any instruction on my part?  Why would they not know enough to wash on their own, as needed?  
 

Sadly, I've known more than a few who didn't.  There have been other threads on "training" and this is one of the best arguments for training I know of... the fact that there are more than a few submissives out there who don't know the first thing about doing laundry, cleaning a house, doing minor repairs, cooking, setting a dinner table for even a semi-formal dinner, etc.

My experience has been, and its part of why I consider the phrase ridiculous, is that all submissives/slaves need to be told what to do and when to do it at some point, and all of them had better do as they are told or face the consequences (whatever that turns out to be).  So to me, the statement is a bit of an oxymoron, though I realize whomever came up with it probably had a clever meaning for it... pity they didn't leave us their footnotes.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 11:08:33 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

That said, why would I suppose that either submissives or slaves needed any instruction on my part?  Why would they not know enough to wash on their own, as needed?  
 

.........My experience has been, and its part of why I consider the phrase ridiculous, is that all submissives/slaves need to be told what to do and when to do it at some point, and all of them had better do as they are told or face the consequences (whatever that turns out to be).  So to me, the statement is a bit of an oxymoron, though I realize whomever came up with it probably had a clever meaning for it... pity they didn't leave us their footnotes.

Footnotes would have been a big help!  An undeniable truth is that you “need to tell someone what to do” in order for them to “do what they are told”.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 11:12:25 AM   
greeneyes600


Posts: 47
Joined: 9/16/2008
Status: offline 		Now my head hurts!!

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 11:22:10 AM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Just askin':
 
How cum it's okay to bash submisssives but not anyone else?  I don't get what's up with the whole 'just a submissive', 'not a real slave' thing.  I mean 'just a switch', 'not a real Dom' would raise sand right?
 
Did submissives get left off the 'tolerate others' list?
 
candystripper 


if you're talking about John's reply, i think he was being sarcastic
there's a bit of an attitude that slaves are "better" and don't talk back and subs are bossy little spazzes who only want what they want
and only the Domliest of all Ds/Ms have slaves, not plain old subs =p

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 12:04:30 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist


"Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need to do what they are told."

I don’t see a difference in either statement as they apply to any subordinant.  Yet it seems like it is trying to explain a difference between slaves and submissives.

I have good grasp of the English language but, this common slogan escapes my ability to understand it.  I have looked at it quite seriously wondering if there was some blind spot in my personality structure that prevented me from seeing the reason so many people put this quote in their profiles. 

Anyone care to shed some light on this?


To me, it implies a hidden agenda of once more stating the demarcation line of submissive vs. slave.  As if most submissives only operate...with a choice...when they are told what to do and slaves do as they are told from their own built-in obedience mode.  You'd have to buy into the idea that submissives only comply...if they choose...when they are told to.  I don't buy into that and therefore, don't buy into the stated premise.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 80
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