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Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 5:33:05 AM

colouredin

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It is true that no two people are the same, relationships bring out differant qualities in people thats just the way it is. I was talking at a munch the other day about how each relationship requires an adjustment to fit that person. We came to the conclusion that it goes both ways. With a D/s dynamic differant people learn differant ways, so a Dominant may have to modify some of the ways that they approach a person depending on how they are. Of course for some that may not happen but then it would possibly be expected that then the person may not be as responsive to learning. I was wondering firstly if Dominants do activly change the way that they excert that in a relationship.

Another thing I was wondering about was the difficulty of adapting as a submissive. It seems often that some people expect instantanious submission without the Dominant having to 'do' anything, just expecting instant obediance without building it up. Personally i need really strict ground rules, being given multiple options etc confuse me and doesnt work for me, however its something I have noticed with many Dominants, what to do then? Do you say to the Dominant oh that doesnt work for me or do you adapt, if you do say it doesnt work and nothing changes does that stop guilt if you get something wrong?

Lastly I have noticed a feeling that experiance is a benift because it means you are already obediant. In line with instant submission, there can be a feeling that if you come out of a relationship where the submission was visable to all it is expected that it will be transfered instantly to a new relationship. However people seem to forget that relationships dont start on the 50th date, how do you deal with expectations like that? Even if they are implicit.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

Post #: 1

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 7:46:49 AM

ProlificNeeds

Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
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In my experience it plays out that the Dominant is nice and charming until they are ready to snatch hold of the leash and expect submission. WHOMP they hit a brick wall, because hello, sorry a first or second coffee date isn't where I decide to throw it all down.
They get upset at hitting that brick wall, for obvious reasons, they thought I was a desperate slut who was so eager to 'submit' I'd throw my common sense in the trash. Once you have the talk with them about instant submission and how you need to earn their trust and they yours ect ect ect.. you pray they understand finally.....

Until the next time they charge forwards and slam face first into the brick wall. This usually happens about three times before I say "This isn't working for me." Someone who tries to cut through my limits or expectations with no regard a few times, generally isn't worth the headache, because if they don't respect me now, they won't respect me later.

I don't like instant soup, instant coffee, or instant Dom's.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 2

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 7:48:17 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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wow... OK, I really need to ask a question. From the sub's viewpoint, is it really really true that some appreciable percentage of "doms" met in "the scene" actually behave like that? I mean granted, there's always going to be that one guy you met somewhere who was just a knuckle dragger... but is this sort of thing common? The picture that's being presented here is a guy who knows little to nothing about relationships, women, or dominance and submission.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 3

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 7:54:43 AM

colouredin

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Unfortnatly in my experiance its one of the most common type of person that I meet. It isnt always explicit, like "you will kneel before me" its just an expectation that i will instantly do what they say from the get go, no question, not even is it limited to sexually but for example going to someones house and being told to make them tea the first time of meeting. Then if there is ever a no uttered they get upset, question your submission etc

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 4

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 7:55:55 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
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From: Nashville, TN
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It isnt just guys, though. As a female dominant I have seen this among other female doms as well. Its like instead of having a new partner, they are trying to fit the new person into the verion of a partner they want. Plug and play doesnt often work, though it is more effective shortterm with male subs since many of them are so desperate for attention they are willing to try and be what she wants.
Long term, though, you have to adapt to the person you are with or it will not work. They are eventually going to tire of being made to act to be accepted.

And for me, experience is not a benefit. You learned to obey...someone else. That doesnt necessarily translate into your being good at obeying me. More likely, it means I will have to deal with helping you unlearn habits and rituals you had with someone before me, while teaching you what I like. Unless, of course, the new dom is exactly like the old one.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 5

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 7:59:08 AM

SimplyMichael

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Jeff....

I know your low opinion of the scene but remember, it is a VERY large pool of people who mess with this stuff, many have never set foot outside of a chatroom, look at how many have profiles here who have NEVER posted. Then think of how small a slice of the total of "kinksters" we see in our tiny community. There are far more people OUTSIDE of the scene than inside.

So yeah, those sorts of nitwits are out there but they tend to be out on the distant fringes as a general rule.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 6

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 8:02:34 AM

ProlificNeeds

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Joined: 5/19/2007
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I most often get it not in person but after the date, when they go home and then message me or call me on the phone. It's like the distance between us means they left their brain behind.. or they suddenly got cocky because they were out of arms reach and couldn't be slapped. They'll just haul off and say something retarded like "Next time we get together, I want you to wear a skirt and no panties so I can XYZ whenever I want..." When they were lucky to get a chaste kiss from me on the last date.
If they said it jokingly, with a twinge of hopefulness that'd be funny and maybe tempting but as an order? whaaaatever.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 7

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 8:03:41 AM

colouredin

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I have noticed that when talking online/text etc people are more cocky and forthright than in person thats very true

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 8

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 8:05:50 AM

ProlificNeeds

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I've run into a lot of guys who think BDSM or just D/s mechanics mean that all 'regular relationship' stuff goes out the window. I do recall one fellow saying something to the effect of "Hello I'm not looking to date you, I want a sub not a girlfriend."

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 9

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 8:07:31 AM

colouredin

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Its like on giving advice here how often the response is communicate, people tend to forget how relationships actually work and get caught up in other things, they tend to forget that actually they are adults with the power of rational thought

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 10

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 8:10:16 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
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From: Nashville, TN
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That and a lot of times, they assume becasue it might have worked for them once, it is surefire to work again.
I have heard "Well, the last girl...." more times than I wish to think about.

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 11

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 8:12:26 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

That and a lot of times, they assume becasue it might have worked for them once, it is surefire to work again.
I have heard "Well, the last girl...." more times than I wish to think about.

Quite and as it tends to be that differant Dominants want differant things, even something as simple as how they like their steak cooked they wouldnt be happy if the retort was "well my last Dominant..."

< Message edited by colouredin -- 11/5/2008 8:13:06 AM >

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 12

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 8:18:55 AM

ProlificNeeds

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Joined: 5/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

That and a lot of times, they assume becasue it might have worked for them once, it is surefire to work again.
I have heard "Well, the last girl...." more times than I wish to think about.

Quite and as it tends to be that differant Dominants want differant things, even something as simple as how they like their steak cooked they wouldnt be happy if the retort was "well my last Dominant..."

I've done that before! If they wanna try the "My last girl did..." or "My ideal girl would.." I toss out a similar response. "My ideal Dom would.." really does hit them square in the fragile glass ego whent hey realize you aren't describing them.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 13

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 8:32:49 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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For lots of people, the 'expectation of instant submission' is a pretty hot idea and they like it. Lots of people want 'instant dominance' too! Admittedly they get fed up a little further down the line when they're expected to keep it up, or when they ACTUALLY get to know each other and find they have thrown their lot in with someone that isn't at all like their Insta-Model.

agirl

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 14

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 9:17:42 AM

mc1234

Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds
I've run into a lot of guys who think BDSM or just D/s mechanics mean that all 'regular relationship' stuff goes out the window. I do recall one fellow saying something to the effect of "Hello I'm not looking to date you, I want a sub not a girlfriend."

There are people out there who are looking only for a BDSM relationship - not a dating relationship. It's all a matter of compatability.

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 15

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 11:19:21 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
I was wondering firstly if Dominants do activly change the way that they excert that in a relationship.

I have with my girl. she has a Rebel archetype, so I've learned to phrase things in such a way as to work around that. I'm also patient. I know that often, when there's hesitation or procrastination, she's dealing with the Rebel.

I've just started to wonder if I've coddled her about this. If she's to deal with her Ego, she will eventually have to deal with the Rebel. Perhaps it's time to pull the reigns a little tighter in that area. I'm not clear if that's my own thoughts or my authentic voice speaking, so I'll have to pay attention to it.

quote:

...the submission was visable to all it is expected that it will be transfered instantly to a new relationship. ...how do you deal with expectations like that? Even if they are implicit.

There are certain things I expected to come along with anne given that she's got 25 more years of experience than I do. I expected her to have service skills, knowledge of the protocol I'm likely to want (because we're in the same circle in the lifestyle) and such. So, there IS a certain expectation. However, I didn't expect her to know what I want as far as personal service or the specifics of what protocols I'd pick and choose. There is still a certain amount of training to do...on both sides of the slash.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 16

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 11:26:28 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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How to deal with it is simply to address it in a straight forward manner. "Excuse me, you haven't earned the right to talk to me/treat me in that manner" with unsaid but implied 'keep it up boyo and you never will'.

But I'd be grateful that they acted like that, because it means you aren't going to waste any more time talking to them. You already know they aren't going to be capable of a good D/s relationship because they aren't capable of having any kind of a healthy relationship due to their belief that their desires are the only ones that matter and to hell with the other person. Just move on.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 17

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 12:31:24 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

this slave sees nothing wrong in expecting someone who IS submissive (as in posesses a submissive personality) to BE submissive, from the first hello, in their interactions with folks and throughout their daily life. same thing with expecting someone who IS dominant (as in posesses a dominant personality) to BE dominant, from the first hello, in their interactions with folks and throughout their daily life.

the problem this slave has observed is when folks expect someone who identifies as A submissive or A dominant (as in, submissive or dominant ONLY to another within the context of a negotiated, established relationship) to BE submissive or dominant (as in a descriptor of their personality).

this slave has no idea what the ideal time frame is between meeting someone and choosing to submit to them, nor how long it takes to adapt to that choice of submission, once it is made...however, just because someone's time frame is off from yours, doesn't mean they can't have a good, healthy D/s relationship with a compatible partner.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 18

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/5/2008 12:52:08 PM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

How to deal with it is simply to address it in a straight forward manner. "Excuse me, you haven't earned the right to talk to me/treat me in that manner" with unsaid but implied 'keep it up boyo and you never will'.

But I'd be grateful that they acted like that, because it means you aren't going to waste any more time talking to them. You already know they aren't going to be capable of a good D/s relationship because they aren't capable of having any kind of a healthy relationship due to their belief that their desires are the only ones that matter and to hell with the other person. Just move on.

And, I'd like to point out, reasonably it should go the other direction too, right? I mean, if I'm sitting across the table from some sub who wants me to trot out all my domliness on the first date, A line along the lines of...

"Excuse me, but we barely know each other and you haven't earned the right nor the trust for me to dominate you"

... with the unsaid implication on the end should also be valid right? I only ask because I get the sense that some doms are somehow feeling forced into displaying their dominance lest she bolt.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 19

RE: Directing Dominace - 11/6/2008 4:22:40 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

And, I'd like to point out, reasonably it should go the other direction too, right? I mean, if I'm sitting across the table from some sub who wants me to trot out all my domliness on the first date, A line along the lines of...

"Excuse me, but we barely know each other and you haven't earned the right nor the trust for me to dominate you"

... with the unsaid implication on the end should also be valid right? I only ask because I get the sense that some doms are somehow feeling forced into displaying their dominance lest she bolt.

Absolutely it is fair to say that you prefer to leave the trappings aside until the two of you have decided you are sufficiently compatible to take a step forward. With that said, I doubt that very many femsubs do demand the maledom meet them on the first date wearing tight leather pants and a fishnet shirt in Starbucks.

Unfortunately I think this kind of demand seems to be given more by men in general. Unexperienced ones usually with very little in relationship skills. But from what I read, dommes get this expectation from male subs a lot, that they dress in fetish clothing everywhere. And female subs get it from male dominants, the no panties and inappropriate clothing demands.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 20

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