RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (Full Version)

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FatDomDaddy -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/9/2008 10:10:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

We have had thread after thread, that says it doesn't matter
that he is Black.
 
....I am confused.
 
I still predict no end in sight!
I bet we can agree on that one!
[:D]


Look... the Clinton faction of the DNC were the ones that brought up race and that whites wouldn't vote for a black man. The Republicans and Specifically John McCain, never went there.

I envy the sense of pride and acomplishment Black voters must have felt on November 5th but be honest with that as well, there were millions of Black Americans who never voted before and would not have voted in that election had not Obama been running, That's a good, good thing, 1) that they voted and 2) that they voted their own.

Why would anyone want to take that away?




MzMia -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/9/2008 10:10:59 PM)

lol, and Mike, please don't be unsavory!
 
I have made my point {as others clearly are also},
  that is why I like the "offtopic" section.
 
As anything in life, if it does not pertain to you, don't worry about it.
Even if it does pertain to you, I still don't expect you to worry about it.
 
Peace
 
 




marie2 -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/9/2008 10:15:24 PM)

Mike:

I think I contributed in a very polite way, my own perspective, which obviously may differ from yours.  I don't think however, that I gave you any reason to respond with rudeness and sarcasm simply because you don't agree with what I said. 




FatDomDaddy -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/9/2008 10:18:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Oh well,if I am being hyper sensitive to the predictions that this President won't live to serve out his first term ,let me apologise immediately.I wouldn't want to insult sensitive people who's only guilt is in discussing an event in their heart of hearts they hope never comes to pass....And now I must go take a long hot shower,I feel dirty all of a sudden.


mike... plenty of people would love to "prove" to the world what a racist and horrible place and society the Untied States really is. As many from the left of world politics as from the right of world politics. Though truth be told, usually, only the left of the spectrum calls The United States racists

Luckily the so called  "They" who will be doing the so called "assignation" will have to get through the greatest police and security force the world has ever know, The United States Secret Service.




popeye1250 -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/9/2008 10:45:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Viable political discussion and pointing out thing we are or others may be uncomfortable with (Such as appointing pro Israel, War Hawk Rohm Emmanuel as COS) is hardly vitriol. The biggest mistake we can make as a nation is mandating that any criticism of President Elect Obama is bigotry, racism. vitriol and hate.

Like Emmanuel...

I LOVE that Emmanuel is pro Israel and that it is important to him that The United States keeps a free and democratic Iraq. I like that he is Hawkish on the Middle East and wants peace there on Israel's and The United States' terms.

But his appointment can't make the anti-war and anti-Israel factions that voted in droves for The President Elect.

Ditto for the anti Wall Street'ers (who also voted for Obama in droves) because Emmanuel was known as The Congressman from Wall Street.

Look,,, I think Obama can stand the heat. His Speech and Press Conference clearly showed he was a leader, in charge and will be calling the shots. 

His vast nation of Internet protectors would be better served if they stopped worrying about racists and veiled racists comments solely because they dare to criticize the man or even less... point out to his blathering sycophants that maybe he's not quite the politician they thought he was. Obama is going to really piss off a lot of his supporters (George W. Bush routinely pissed me off.). It's the price of having to be President to all the people.


FatDom, that's good about Emmanuel, and lets hope he'll be just as hawkish about securing our border with Mexico as COS.
There has been an incredable amount of violence in the last few months down there along the border by the drug gangs.
Bush thinks that he can "talk" to Mexico, hopefully Obama will be injecting some "change" into that situation too and close down the border totally with Troops.




TheHeretic -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/9/2008 10:46:00 PM)

       Now maybe it's because I'm not reading all threads on the subject, but I'm not seeing these comments you are finding objectionable, Mia.

      I am finding some extremely unrealistic expectations about how our new PE should be spoken of, and, perhaps this is just my perception, a few of his supporters strutting about with a chip on their shoulder.  After the way President Bush II has been talked about on this board and elsewhere, I'm still narrowing my take to high, stupid, or incredibly (as in, going to have to block before I get myself a time-out) hypocritical.

      People don't know what to do with all the pent up energy.  I noticed the NFL thread got bumped back up, but what we really need is some big breaking news  (good would be nice, but I'll take whatever we get) to take the 24/7 news cycle off the election and transition.  I was making small talk with a young woman on the phone Thursday, and she said she got home after work, and felt lost, without the daily horse-race news to catch up on. 

     When does the next season of American Idol start?  That should help settle the herd again.




GoddessDustyGold -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/9/2008 11:04:17 PM)

Ah, you don't have to wait for American Idol (one show I have never watched). Dancing with the Stars has a few weeks to go yet.  How exciting is it that one can vote online, by text message or by phone.  Or all three! 
Of course I am one of those apathetic people who only like to watch the dancing and then laugh at how many weeks 82 year old Cloris Leachman was left in the running because people thought she was cute and overlooked the fact that she called one of the judges a "bitch".  Sympathy voters are counted the same as honest ones.  It didn't seem to matter that she was incapable (no fault of her own) that she was unable to be truly competitive.  She was funny and entertaining and that was all that really mattered, right?
At least this election year we had a good turnout, for whatever reasons at the actual governmental elections.  Most of the time people are too busy voting for their next "American Idol" to bother with things like their Senator, Congressional representative, or those pesky local initiatives that keep cropping up. 
How much is anybody willing to bet that well over half of the US population does not know who their Congressional Representative is in Washington D.C.?  I live in a small town, and I can't tell you how many people do not even know the name of our Mayor, much less the members of the Town Council.




Marc2b -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/9/2008 11:15:48 PM)

Thoughts of this nature have been on my mind for the last few days so I thank you MzMia for a chance to rant a little.

I started paying attention to Presidents and national politics during the Carter Administration.  I was pretty young back then (I was eleven when carter took office and thirteen when the Iranian Hostage Crisis made me sit up and take real notice of national and international politics for the first time) but, through five Administrations (two Democratic, three Republican) two things have held true:  The speech from the party not holding the Presidency ranges from reasoned criticism to raving lunacy.  The responding speech of the party with the Presidency ranges from reasoned counter arguments to raving lunacy.  The Obama Administration will see nothing different save for two significant exceptions:  Some of the raving lunatics on one side will make genuinely nasty racists remarks.  Some of the raving lunatics on the other side will scream “RASCIST!” at any criticism of President Obama’s policies and actions.

Your contention that there has been some vitriol aimed at President Elect Obama is correct – there are some sore losers out there.  I haven’t seen any outright racist attacks.  It is a big message board, I’ll grant you, but in the threads I’ve visited I’ve yet to have a post jump out at me and make me say, “Whoa, that was blatant racism.” 

Slvemike4u mentioned some threads where he felt that the “the prospect of assassination is discussed rather lightly” and where “one poster suggested recalling the newly elected President 70 some odd days before he takes the oath of office.”

I don’t recall seeing the thread about recalling President Elect Obama but that just sounds like sour grapes to me.  I do recall some posts discussing the possibility of assassination and here the matter of perception comes into play.  I didn’t see them as treating the subject lightly; I saw them as simply making a dispassionate analyses of a very real possibility.  Let’s face the facts:  there are some real looney tune, white supremacist nutballs out there.  Klu-klux-klan types, and neo - God gave America to the white man – nazi types, and the white militia types that like to run around the forest with guns preparing for the great race war.  They will look upon this election as the beginning of Armageddon.  People have been taking shots at presidents for a long time but this time, whether we like it or not, there is the added element of racism.  It is a topic of legitimate discussion as well as legitimate concern.  We can only hope that the Secret Service (and probably the FBI as well) will keep a sharp eye on the looney bastards (in fact, I'm willing to bet that some very brave souls are currently - and probably already have been - at work infiltrating these groups).

The question for anti-racists though is: do we expect everybody to post disclaimers that they are not racists every time they discuss our new President in any way that can be perceived as negative?  It seems most unfair to me to expect that of people.  It is a form of bigotry in its own right.  Short of blatant racism (racists words, crude racial stereotypes, etc.), people should be given the benefit of the doubt. 

So where do we go from here?  Actual, obvious racism should be called for the bullshit that it is.  Of all the human banes racism is the most stupid.  It is unscientifically supported (when it comes to humans there is in fact only one race - the human race).  It is an ugly left over from our ancient tribal past when anything unknown, anything different, was consider dangerous, or at least suspect.  An inborn attitude that may have serve our species well when we still lived in caves and every day truly was a struggle to survive but now inflicts us with the social maladies of not just racism but a whole host of bigoted attitudes.  Human beings, however, are not just a collection of animal instincts.  We also posses the unique ability to reason and reason shows us that racism is not only unethical but a self defeating attitude for a society.

Likewise I think we should call bullshit on those who fling the racist label around without any foundation to do so.  Ever since I joined Collarme, I have seen people fling words like stupid and ignorant around quite casually – particularly on the Off Topic Threads.  I’ve given into the temptation myself a few times (I never ever make any claims to purity or perfection), but it is par for the course.  People can get quite heated about politics and everybody has button issues.  Hell, I once got called ignorant for dissing a particular State’s strawberries.  You have to let that kind of shit roll of your back.  Besides, if you think about it, since none of us is omniscient, all of us are ignorant about some things.  Calling, or even implying, somebody is a racist is something else again.  It is an attack upon their character and needs to be supported.  It has already happened to me once and if it happens again I will call bullshit on it again.  I find it particularly offensive because to call me a racist is to tell me that I don’t love certain people in my life that I love dearly.  Not just close friends but family as well (some by marriage, some by birth and some by adoption).

I’ve said this before folks but I’m saying it again: if you only know a person by what they post here on the Collarme Boards then you only know a tiny piece of them – which means you don’t really know them at all.  There are people on these boards I generally avoid getting into political discussions with because I know that we will just end up spinning around and around, rehashing old arguments and neither convincing the other of anything new – but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be good company to sit on a back porch and drink beer with.

Thanks again MzMia for giving me a chance to vent a little.  I envy you a little being able to attend the inauguration live (I presume you are) because the simple fact of the matter is, the inauguration of America’s first black President is a historic event.  I plan on taking the day off from work and watching on t.v.




stella41b -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 12:29:45 AM)

MzMia

I've noticed it too but then again I'm transgendered and am used to dealing with prejudice. I've been reading these boards and the threads and I also have posted, but my reasons are different and more personal.

Within the next couple of weeks I'm opening a play and starting out in my first season in fringe theatre in London. I am not the first transgendered playwright working in the English language, that distinction goes to South African Pieter-Dirk Uys, but I might be the first transgendered female fringe playwright in the UK. I don't know, I don't think too much about this. At the moment I have far more important things to deal with.

Whichever way this is what I do in life,. write and direct plays and run theatre workshops in fringe theatre and my loyalty rests with the people who work with me and whoever comes to see my plays or takes part in my workshops.

No doubt there will be some prejudice, but this isn't going to change who I am or what I do. It doesn't diminish my hopes for the future nor my faith in human nature.

There will always be hatred in this world as there is love. The choice remains with the individual.




subrob1967 -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 3:28:30 AM)

For Christ's sake, this is a alternative lifestyle website for adults, and the best you can do is whine about some poster who is perceived to be picking on poor Barack Obama?

You love the guy, great, we get it, but not everybody loves and respects the "chosen one". And since this is off topic, Obama is fair game for discussion.




MzMia -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 4:38:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

For Christ's sake, this is a alternative lifestyle website for adults, and the best you can do is whine about some poster who is perceived to be picking on poor Barack Obama?

You love the guy, great, we get it, but not everybody loves and respects the "chosen one". And since this is off topic, Obama is fair game for discussion.


That is the point!
I don't expect everyone to appreciate the "chosen one", but you

made a great point.
If Obama is "fair" game for discusssion, than I have every intention on making
my Obama "feel good" threads!!!
Thanks for the idea!!!

[:D]




colouredin -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 4:43:25 AM)

I am equally as sad by all the 'we should love him BECAUSE he is black' threads and comments, I am actually even more irritated by those i think because they do it with the guise of being something differant.

I have found specific posters to do this on near on every comment about him, and I find it sad that I am actually considering blocking people like this.




sirsholly -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 4:48:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Mia, it's a bunch of crap.
President- Elect Obama will be America's President for the next four years and people should get behind him!
We had our election, The People decided and that's that.
Now let's get on with it.
I'd much rather be reading what people want to see him do in the next four years then whether he's "half black", "half white" or whatever.
It's about *our country*!
As I said in another thread I hope President Obama is the best President this country has ever had! If McCain were elected I'd be hoping the same thing!
It's not about his "race" it's about what he's going to do for our country.


sayeth the one that wants Fifty Cent to be a cabinet member?[8|][8|][8|][8|][8|]




sirsholly -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 4:51:24 AM)

i cringe every time i hear "America's first black president"

How about "America's NEXT president"?

Personally...i don't give a dead rats ass what his race is.




MzMia -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 4:53:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I am equally as sad by all the 'we should love him BECAUSE he is black' threads and comments, I am actually even more irritated by those i think because they do it with the guise of being something differant.

I have found specific posters to do this on near on every comment about him, and I find it sad that I am actually considering blocking people like this.


Wow, I have missed those posts.
Who thinks everyone should like him, because he is "Black"?
Let me know, those would be some interesting posts to read!




Aileen1968 -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 4:56:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I am equally as sad by all the 'we should love him BECAUSE he is black' threads and comments, I am actually even more irritated by those i think because they do it with the guise of being something differant.

I have found specific posters to do this on near on every comment about him, and I find it sad that I am actually considering blocking people like this.


Wow, I have missed those posts.
Who thinks everyone should like him, because he is "Black"?
Let me know, those would be some interesting posts to read!



They're right next to the posts that that deem everything critical of him as being rascist.




MzMia -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 4:59:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I am equally as sad by all the 'we should love him BECAUSE he is black' threads and comments, I am actually even more irritated by those i think because they do it with the guise of being something differant.

I have found specific posters to do this on near on every comment about him, and I find it sad that I am actually considering blocking people like this.


Wow, I have missed those posts.
Who thinks everyone should like him, because he is "Black"?
Let me know, those would be some interesting posts to read!



They're right next to the posts that that deem everything critical of him as being rascist.


Well that is racism in reverse.
Anyone that thinks he gets a pass because he is "Black", is wrong.
I think we are going to have people that like/dislike him for a variety of reasons.
I know that I am not going to agree with a lot of his decisions, will that make me a racist?
Hummm
I will at least try to separate posts that dislike his points of views, and his policies from
the threads that go on and on about race and skin color.




colouredin -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 5:04:50 AM)

There was a post thanking all white people who voted him, in fact i think you started it and to me that was racist, and patronising, and totally unfair on the guy. he hasnt made a deal about his race, it is the media and us frcing that on him, it does him a diservice and to be honest its bad no matter what side of the coin you are on.

Sure having a black president is an historical event, it will give hope to many people, thats great but its certainly not the be all and end all and the amount of discussion of it far outweighs its importance, i think its far mpore important that hes a democrat, that he is a smart man, that he is articulate, that he has made promises and that he gives hope to lots of people all around the world regardless of race/gender/age, that to me are the things people should be talking about. Not accusing everyone of racisim, not making his race the biggest issue, anyone that does is missing the bigger picture.




MzMia -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 5:07:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

There was a post tanking all white people who voted him, in fact i think you started it and to me that was racist, and patronising, and totally unfair on the guy. he hasnt made a deal about his race, it is the media and us frcing that on him, it does him a diservice and to be honest its bad no matter what side of the coin you are on.

Sure having a black president is an historical event, it will give hope to many people, thats great but its certainly not the be all and end all and the amount of discussion of it far outweighs its importance, i think its far mpore important that hes a democrat, that he is a smart man, that he is articulate, that he has made promises and that he gives hope to lots of people all around the world regardless of race/gender/age, that to me are the things people should be talking about. Not accusing everyone of racisim, not making his race the biggest issue, anyone that does is missing the bigger picture.


This will be my last post for a while, because I have to go to work.
I have a right to make any threads that I desire, you have every right
not to read or even like them.
Many of the people that have worked the hardest to support President-elect Obama,
happen to be White.
I happen to have personally met many of these young White college students and
I think they are awesome.
I made that post in appreciation for those supporters in particular.
I can thank whomever I want.
I will continue to post whatever I want within the guidelines of this message board.
Have a great day!




Aileen1968 -> RE: What I predicted last month has started, no end in sight. (11/10/2008 5:07:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Well that is racism in reverse.
Anyone that thinks he gets a pass because he is "Black", is wrong.
I think we are going to have people that like/dislike him for a variety of reasons.
I know that I am not going to agree with a lot of his decisions, will that make me a racist?
Hummm



That's my point...it already seems that if anyone doesn't like him that his race is the unspoken underlying reason.  I didn't vote for him.  His race had nothing to do with it at all.  His party affiliation did.  He's the President elect...I will honor and respect him and wait and see how he does.  I hope he does well.  It would benifit all of us as citizens if he put the people of this country first.  My fear is that he's an ingrained politician just like every one else in DC and that in the long run, the right things just won't be done. 
I don't know him...I can only base my opinions on him based on what his actions are and what comes out of his mouth.  That's how I base my opinions on anyone. 
Aynne in another thread just said this...
quote:

I wish just for once one of the anti-Obama people would have the balls to man up and say they don't like him because he is black. Before you freak out baby and whomever else, re-read. I did *not* say all anti-Obama people were, but methinks it is wayyyyyy more than admit to it. Give me a fucking break and try just once speaking your mind, it might feel refreshing.[:****]  

I find that way of thinking scary. 




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