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yellowtail -> disappointed.... (11/13/2008 7:17:54 AM)
....i'm a long term lurker..but first time poster...so hello e/Everyone...i'm having a problem recently that i would like to get some perspective on...my Master recently did something that was very disappointing to me...and to many it wouldn't be a big deal..but it was something that i have repeatedly made known to Him as something that is important to me....and He has dropped the ball on it quite a few times...i should also mention that this is outside of our bdsm life...and is part of our mundane vanilla married life....He knows He messed up...and He apologized for it....said again that He would not let it happen again. i find myself accepting of His apology...because everyone makes mistakes, and i can appreciate this...but at the same time i still feel betrayed...and that the trust i have given to Him has been abused....my question is basically how do i get over this? ...also i did a search and only came up with anger issues....so if there is already a post in regards to this problem...please let me know, and i apologize for gumming up the board

OsideGirl -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 7:37:19 AM)
Trust, once wounded, takes time to heal. It's not like you can throw a switch and instaneously trust someone. The same is true when that trust has been injured. If you wish to continue with him, you'll need to give it time. It may never come back, which means that you'll need to re-evaluate the relationship in the future.

OttersSwim -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 7:38:38 AM)
HiHi! and welcome to the forums. [:)] It is hard to make an assessment on your question as we have no idea of the severity of what he did: - Did he forget to put the mustard on the right side of the fridge and not the left side? - Did he leave your dog out in the snow and forget to feed him for a week? - Did he cheat on you, or abuse you? And there are variations of the infractions and our minds are awhirl with possibilities. [;)] So a little more info on that might help. You don't need to go into high detail, but an idea of the severity of the let down might be useful. These sorts of issues can be hard to deal with as they leave you in a space conflicted between your vanilla relationship and your place as his submissive. It can be hard for us submissives to be assertive with a Dominant about any responsibility that they are not meeting, or about a clear infraction in the agreements we make with them. It is important that we realize that they are just people like us, that they have faults and failings and sometimes don't meet the high standard of Dom(m)liness that subs can hold in our heads. I think communication is key here. Take the time to really explain to him how much this affects you. Talk about what impact this has on your lives and your relationship both vanilla and D/s. Ask him to step up to the plate and be ready to give him a little slack and look for effort not results right away. Hope that helps. [:)]

camille65 -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 7:39:31 AM)
Hi yellowtail and welcome to the forums! I do understand, there is a difference between accepting an apology and really feeling like something has changed by an apology. Are you able to sit down and discuss how you feel with him? I've run across people that believe once they say 'sorry' the issue is completely done for them, they don't understand that something more (like changing the behavior or actually seeing what they did wrong) is needed. Its an awful thing when unhappiness builds up in one person and the other is oblivious because they apologized, so I hope that you can sit down and explain how deeply you were wounded. Again... welcome to the forums.

MarksFantasyGirl -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 7:41:04 AM)
Never appologize for gumming up the boards.... Have you SEEN some of these threads? lmao... sorry... But anyways, My question to you is: How many times has he dissapointed you with the same thing? and just how important is this thing to you? Be sure to express your feelings and don't be afraid to speak your mind.... I guess that's the best advise I can give you..... Edited to add: ::shrug:: sorry... looks like I'm losing my ability to give advise... ::goes back to my pillow::

switchtosub -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 8:08:11 AM)
Hi Yellowtail, I don't post much but I read the boards quite a bit. Yours is quite an insightful post. It sounds to me like you're actually having three problems: 1. The lines between your marriage and your lifestyle 2. Your Master's behavior as husband 3. His unwillingness to change that behavior I imagine a lot of posters have had issues with the first one. It's tricky. Even when people communicate, what one says isn't always what the other hears. Everyone's assumptions and expectations are different. I'd say write it down beforehand so you can get a handle on exactly what you want to say. That way, if things get emotional, you have notes to rely on.[:)] As for your husband's behavior (and in this instance he is your husband, not your master), my advice for that one is tied to #3. He's not going to change. He doesn't have to. He has no reason to, because it's been demonstrated to him that he can continue his current behavior with no consequences. In order for him to change his behavior, there has to be either a negative consequence or a positive reinforcement. No matter what you choose, you have to show him that this behavior will not be tolerated. And don't let him fall back on "I'm the Dom and what I say goes," he's not your Dom in this matter, and even Doms make unreasonable requests from time to time. I know I'm sounding like my inner switch, as Otter said, it can be hard to assert ourselves when our impulse is to be submissive. Just ask yourself if you would rather go on with the way things are? Are you better off this way? What's the worst that can happen, and do you have a a support system to get you through it? I've found that there are a great many wonderfully supportive folks on these boards. Go ahead, use us! We're pulling for you. --switch

LaTigresse -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 9:08:25 AM)
What you should do, depends solely upon you and the issue.... How important is that issue to you? Is it a deal breaker or an annoyance? Does it cross your moral boundaries? Does it destroy your trust in him or just piss you off? These are the sort of questions you need to consider. Rate the importance on a scale of 1-whatever number you choose. If it is simply an annoyance, get over it. If it destroys your trust or crosses moral boundaries, perhaps you need to reconsider your relationship (I would and I would expect my slave would if I let her down in this way) If again, it is simply an annoyance or something that pisses you off, you need to look within.

RealSub58 -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 9:50:15 AM)
So many fine points. quote: ORIGINAL: switchtosub Hi Yellowtail, I don't post much but I read the boards quite a bit. Yours is quite an insightful post. It sounds to me like you're actually having three problems: 1. The lines between your marriage and your lifestyle 2. Your Master's behavior as husband 3. His unwillingness to change that behavior I imagine a lot of posters have had issues with the first one. It's tricky. Even when people communicate, what one says isn't always what the other hears. Everyone's assumptions and expectations are different. I'd say write it down beforehand so you can get a handle on exactly what you want to say. That way, if things get emotional, you have notes to rely on.[:)] As for your husband's behavior (and in this instance he is your husband, not your master), my advice for that one is tied to #3. He's not going to change. He doesn't have to. He has no reason to, because it's been demonstrated to him that he can continue his current behavior with no consequences. In order for him to change his behavior, there has to be either a negative consequence or a positive reinforcement. No matter what you choose, you have to show him that this behavior will not be tolerated. And don't let him fall back on "I'm the Dom and what I say goes," he's not your Dom in this matter, and even Doms make unreasonable requests from time to time. I'd like to share something I have been told recently.Some times we reinforce the behaviour by doing/saying nothing. Enduring it.Switchtosub has the right idea.I will give a personal example: My Sir states he understands my feelings about a certain thing, but I don't think he really does. So I drew a picture of my feelings (something I learned in art therapy) and wow, he did get it. Like totally !I am NOT an artist, but when drawing my feelings, the expression blossoms. (If you'd like advice on how to do this, cmail me?) I know I'm sounding like my inner switch, as Otter said, it can be hard to assert ourselves when our impulse is to be submissive. Just ask yourself if you would rather go on with the way things are? Are you better off this way? What's the worst that can happen, and do you have a a support system to get you through it? I've found that there are a great many wonderfully supportive folks on these boards. Go ahead, use us! We're pulling for you. --switch

CalifChick -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 9:53:58 AM)
Is it something he is doing that he knows full well is a problem, or is it something he is not thinking about? Here is what I mean: My ex used to do something that really bothered me, and he wouldn't stop no matter what I said. When he drove my car, he would move the seat far forward (he has shorter legs than I) and drop the steering wheel to its lowest position, and when I got in, particularly when I was pregnant, the steering wheel would hit my belly and my knee would hit the dash and it all would hurt alot. We even discussed this in marriage counseling, because I saw it as him saying that he didn't care about me, didn't care that it hurt me. The counselor helped me understand that his brain works differently than mine, and the thought that he needed to move the seat when he got out of my car just didn't enter his consciousness. Cali

OttersSwim -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 10:23:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick ... The counselor helped me understand that his brain works differently than mine, and the thought that he needed to move the seat when he got out of my car just didn't enter his consciousness. Cali "Permission to be thoughtless Sir!" "Why is that Private?" "Because I am a man Sir!" "Very well, carry on..." Cali, I have found that on the initial incident what you say can be very true - males are wired a bit differently and may not always be in that thinking space. We tend as a group to be goal and objective oriented. HOWEVER....ahem....however, once we are let know about a situation that bothers our esteemed partners, most of us boys can put the brain cells together to remember such things as moving seats...most of the time... I think that men should be held to the same level of personal responsibility post that first incident of apparent thoughtlessness. My 2c...

SteelofUtah -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 10:28:27 AM)
~~Making a Physical and Mental note to just stay the hell away from this thread.~~ Steel STAY AWAY... No Matter how much you WANT to comment it will only end bad for you Steel

theobserver -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 10:30:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yellowtail ....i'm a long term lurker..but first time poster...so hello e/Everyone...i'm having a problem recently that i would like to get some perspective on...my Master recently did something that was very disappointing to me...and to many it wouldn't be a big deal..but it was something that i have repeatedly made known to Him as something that is important to me....and He has dropped the ball on it quite a few times...i should also mention that this is outside of our bdsm life...and is part of our mundane vanilla married life....He knows He messed up...and He apologized for it....said again that He would not let it happen again. i find myself accepting of His apology...because everyone makes mistakes, and i can appreciate this...but at the same time i still feel betrayed...and that the trust i have given to Him has been abused....my question is basically how do i get over this? ...also i did a search and only came up with anger issues....so if there is already a post in regards to this problem...please let me know, and i apologize for gumming up the board Without knowing the specifics of what he did that you feel has betrayed you, it's hard to pass along any advice. Even, still it would be from one perspective and without having the full picture. Two words stood out to me ... abused and anger. I don't want to read anything into it, but let's just say, for lack of specific details, that the issue revolves around those two words, whereas trust has been abused, due to unchecked anger. If someone does not have the self-control to keep from stepping over those lines, then a reevaluation of the relationship may definitely be in order.

RealSub58 -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 10:31:16 AM)
Please don't tease us like this Steel....is it the toilet seat?? [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D] Your theme* song is totally surprising, I love it !!*

kyraofMists -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 10:39:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yellowtail my question is basically how do i get over this? A good predictor of future behavior is past behavior... You said he has made this mistake quite a few times in the past and that he has said in the past that he wouldn't do it again and he is again saying it wont happen in the future. Do you want to get over feeling betrayed as long as this never happens again... or do you want to get over feeling betrayed even if this happens again? Knight's Kyra

SteelofUtah -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 11:08:56 AM)
RealSub, When it comes to discussions of Men vs. Women I find that no matter how valid my point is, no matter how well thought out it is, it gets heard as something completely different. I have since then learned that I would rather Slam My Dick in a Buick Skylark driver side door than enter into an OPEN discussion on how I feel on the Mars Venus Debate. If you wish you are more than welcome to drop me a C-mail and I will give you my somewhat Chauninistic view on this subject, but I learned my lesson about posting such things in open forum. Steel

agirl -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 11:16:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yellowtail ....i'm a long term lurker..but first time poster...so hello e/Everyone...i'm having a problem recently that i would like to get some perspective on...my Master recently did something that was very disappointing to me...and to many it wouldn't be a big deal..but it was something that i have repeatedly made known to Him as something that is important to me....and He has dropped the ball on it quite a few times...i should also mention that this is outside of our bdsm life...and is part of our mundane vanilla married life....He knows He messed up...and He apologized for it....said again that He would not let it happen again. i find myself accepting of His apology...because everyone makes mistakes, and i can appreciate this...but at the same time i still feel betrayed...and that the trust i have given to Him has been abused....my question is basically how do i get over this? It's hard to say anything without more specific details... Just a thought.........Are you expecting something unrealistic about this? If he keeps doing the same thing, is there a chance that it's important enough to him that he keeps 'messing up' and risking your disappointment? You said that he 'knows he messed up'........Is there a chance that he SAYS that he knows it, won't do it again etc because it's difficult to say 'I am likely to drop the ball again, despite knowing what it means to you' .How would you feel if he DID say that and how would you react? You don't 'trust' him because it's been proved that you can't.....in this area, at least. If it's something he repeatedly does then why keep trusting he won't? Perhaps your trust is misplaced in this area and perhaps if you adjusted your expectations you would find you'd feel less betrayed. A lot of 'perhaps's' there... agirl

Lashra -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 11:29:16 AM)
He seems to be repeating his behavior after he gave his word that he would not. That has to be a trust shaker in itself. I would say examine this relationship closely and ask yourself is this something that you can live with? Because judging from the past it is something that is just going to continue to happen even though you wish that it would not. You may have to walk away if its something severe and damaging to you. Good luck, ~Lashra

silkenfire -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 11:31:19 AM)
Sometimes, they don't know why it's such a big deal. The first several times I cooked dishes like fajitas, I used boned chicken and deboned it and took it apart piece by piece. Eventually I decided my time is too precious and I needed pre-boned chicken for that and use the boned chicken for recipes with bones. Master did not comprehend that this was important and seemed annoyed that we went to the store to get chicken breast for Sundays' Chicken Piccata and Monday's fajitas. On Tuesday I had a long day (getting home after 9pm, and since we get up around 6, it's necessary to go ahead and eat rather than wait for me to make something). He made chili with chicken in it, and decided instead of chicken breast to thaw, debone and trim my chicken thighs in the freezer. And now he has learned his lesson. It doesn't matter how much I told him and how much I explained it-- it was the experience itself that made him finally understand. (And I will point out, not a "lesson" from me by any stretch-- he took that on himself) At any rate... sometimes they dont understand importance. I asked my previous relationships to go to church with me on special days (I used to sing in choir and sometimes get solos and wanted them to hear it... it was a one hour service not differing from their own professed spiritual beliefs) and until my relationship with Master I have never had a one of them show up or comprehend the importance to me of having someone with me at church. I've joined Master's church since then. However, I learned my lesson, that people not accustomed to attending church even if only for special events, would always hurt me inside with noshows from promises.

yellowtail -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 11:40:20 AM)
thank y/You all for your attention and responses....it is nice to read other p/People's perspectives, sometimes i think that's all i really need to put my mind at ease... a few points....when i said that what He did may not be a big deal to others i really meant that....He has NOT abused me physically..nor has He cheated on me...in the end the issue is a matter of not doing something that He said He would. i have a lot of issues from things that have happened to me in my life that prevent me from trusting very easily...this issue manifests itself in my need for Him to do as He promises. no matter how big or small the actual thing is that He says He will do, i absolutly need Him to carry through on it. if He doesn't, i can't let it go. He knows this about me...and is very careful about what He says He will do because He doesn't want to hurt me. The incident in particular that started all of this was He told me He would be home at a certain time....mind you He picked the time, not me.......He did not come home at that time....He came home late.... right before He left i said, "this isn't going to be a situation where you lose track of time, end up seeing someone...have a conversation...then call me later and say, gee I'm sorry...I'm on my way now..." ..and He said no, that He would only stay for X amount of time, and he would be home at exactly X time and i should be ready for Him when He got home. well what happend? exactly as i predicted....He ran into someone as He was leaving...and bam..there goes the time.... this is not a matter of Him intentionally hurting me...this is a matter of Him being completly scatter brained and not thinking. i just don't know how to open up to Him again...i feel so closed off right now. and also as a side note i have communicated explicitly how this has made me feel, He has told me how this has made Him feel. i don't think this is a matter of crossed lines...we both are on the same page....but i don't know how to give negative or positive reinforcement towards getting Him to change this behavior, and keeping true to our roles.

SteelofUtah -> RE: disappointed.... (11/13/2008 11:56:06 AM)
Now I have Something to say. This is not a Male Mind Vs Female Mind issue. This is an Unrealistic Expectations and Lack of Trust issue. Please forgive me as I will be comeing across as Snarky because this situation bothers me when it comes to relationships that are supposed to be based on Trust literally having NONE. If he has never abused you and Never Cheated on you what is the issue if he doesn't return on time. As an Adult can you tell my why he has to be home with the street lights come on. Would have been upset if he had been pulled over by Highway Patrol and that was why he was late because Trust me HP don't really care that he said he would be home. Without Trust how do you hold your marriage together? I mean come on. I tell andi when I plan on being home, but if I am late I am just late, if I am going to be really late I call and say so but within an hour or so of when I said I would be she understands things happen. I honestly think you are just being unrealistic in your desire to control how he goes about things. I am now curious Who is the Dominant and who isthe submissive in this relationship because I am not quite understanding the dynamic. Steel

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