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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 9:40:49 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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*giggle* Us darn young whippersnappers...

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 10:03:14 PM   
babygirlkitten


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Funny that this subject has come up just now, because only today I was discussing the same sort of thing. I myself seperate BDSM and sex. I think it's great when the two are combined, but one does not necessarily ensure the other. However, recently, I have come across so many Doms that state, "I need sex when I play" or "I can't play without sex." I don't know if it's necessarily a change in times, as it is people simply coming from different perspectives. 

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 10:10:30 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Awwww, John... you didn't say, "come little children, gather around my knee as I tell you how it really was back then..."




CheekyCali
(yes, a paid member of the Rover fan club)



Around his knee? Can't I be on it?

(Seriously Rover, I love your posts )

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 10:45:19 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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I attended a Leather Leadership conference, where I had the pleasure of speaking with lots of different people.  Among those  I spoke with were two really old bazturds that I recall reflected upon what is now referred to as Old Guard.  Neither one had the same exact perception, although their tales were quite fascinating.  They discussed amongst themselves about whether or not it had been "all about sex," and one said yes, the other said no. 

People, perceptions and languages will probably always evolve, mutate, permeate, translate, integrate and migrate.  Those people, perceptions and languages that stagnate, die out.

For all I know, those old bazturds are STILL arguing the point, and for all I know, those on these forums will continue to do so until they/we are all old bazturds or replaced by young whippersnappers who will take up the mantra. 

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 12:22:57 AM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

The problem is that different people take different words/terms to mean different things. This means people judge others and stick their noses in the air.

Shitting on something because they aren’t what you are is pretty bad, mind you accepting that everyone finds their own way to do things can be hard too.
 

 
that is exactly what the liberals and the younger group has done. Since they were so selfish and self oriented to the point that they did not want to merge themselves into the established norm,


Having done a degree and currently doing my second (in History, Sociology and now social work including psychology seeing as it seems you have a fetish for telling us your qualifications) I can tell you that the 'established norm' isnt always the best thing. Society changes, not always progresses but it does tend to shrug off what becomes wrong, such as locking mentally disturbed people in stone rooms and ripping out their brains.

quote:


but they also found out that to really live this way of life then they really had to change their attitude and make somebody else more important then themselves.


No one is 'more important' just because they have a difrant oriantation. Its just getting pleasure from differant things

quote:


It is not the older more experienced people that is shitting on the younger selfish ones, it is the reverse.


Age doesnt equal experiance, I know people in their 20's with more life experiance than people in their 40's. Also not all people become involved in this subculture when they are young, many come to it at later life, so no age doesnt equal anything.

quote:


You spout your disrespect for people that are real because you have no real experience and you want instant gratification like a child,

I dont disrespect people who are 'real' and you know what I am real too, two arms to legs and a great big brain that lets me think for myself, amazing that. You have no clue how I choose to live, so you have no understanding of my experance, however this is a problem that people who claim to be 'old lifestylers' tend to do, which was indeed my initial point. Disregarding someone you know nothing about purely because of their age. You know what though you are the one that misses out certainly not them.

quote:

 

A Master has an in-depth understanding of psychology, physiology of the human body, understands responsibility and integrity, understands who he is, has an extensive amount of life experience, does not have temper tantrums, thinks before he administers any punishment, knows when to stop the play, knows the difference between childish behavior and internal resistance, know there is more to training than just beating and punishing a slave, and that sex is only a small part of the whole. 
 


Do they? Is there a course?

To be honest, all that post did for me was show your immaturity nad ability to trow a tempertantrum. It shows that you have minimal understanding of other people and make sweeping generalisations. Not something that someone with an in-depth understanding of psychology would do.

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 12:46:15 AM   
ElectraGlide


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I have heard a few people on the scene complain about the lack of sex. Their Dom could not spare the time, because he was too busy strutting around the club with his 5 gallon bucket size leather pouch of spanking instruments, trying to add more play partners to his stable, and trying too prove how Domley he was.

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 2:43:16 AM   
shivermetimbers


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Great discussion.  All I can say is what my impression is on the so called "lifestyle".  I only go back eleven or twelve years from first discovering, and starting to learn, about the many branches in the BDSM tree.  But no matter how anyone tries to spin it, it's always been sexually based IMHO.  The only notable differences I see are how people came to discover the outlets for their desires, and how they learn about them, and how they engage in them.  I see as much BDSM lifestyle as I do BDSM litestyle. I'm not trying to denegrate anyone's views or how they live their lifestyle, but it's not a religion with a catechism to attend to say you're part of it. We're all trying to fulfill our desires, in our own unique ways, and that's no different now then it was in the old way. As the line in the Rush song "Circumstances" goes:

Plus ca change
Plus c'est la meme chose.

The more that things change,
The more they stay the same.

And in this case, what has stayed the same is that this will always be about sex in some form or fashion. Someone is getting off on it.

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 3:14:42 AM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel

You speak of shitting on something... that is exactly what the liberals and the younger group has done. Since they were so selfish and self oriented to the point



quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel

Don't insult those of us that have spent our lives



quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel

You spout your disrespect for people



quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel

People that disagree are the jokes, the wanna be's and the pretenders.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel

I have a Masters degree in Information Systems (as well as psychology)



quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel

they liberals did the same in the school system by trying to make everybody equal... nobody fails, so nobody earns or learns...



quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel

but then liberals are the most intolerant people around... not to mention selfish and lazy. You are anything BUT LIBERAL!



quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel

Anybody that grew up ion the 60's understand what I am talking about... because I was a liberal when being liberal meant something.



What's that saying about pot and kettle again?

ETA: Care to define liberal? Or are you too busy projecting your own bitterness into the discussion?

< Message edited by stella41b -- 11/17/2008 3:16:03 AM >


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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 5:00:04 AM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Awwww, John... you didn't say, "come little children, gather around my knee as I tell you how it really was back then..."


Hey!!  I'm not that old, I just look it!

quote:


CheekyCali
(yes, a paid member of the Rover fan club)


Paid?  Paid???  Wait a minute... where are those membership fees?
 
John

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 5:17:41 AM   
missturbation


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So it all boils down to is BDSM about sex!!
For me in the types of relationship i have had sex has naff all to do ith it. Its been all about the power exchange, the sweet pain and the mind connections. Sex has been involved but its a side dish to forementioned.  I could have quite eeasily lived without the sex, BDSM is not about sex for me.

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 5:56:55 AM   
MissIsis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel
A Master has an in-depth understanding of psychology, physiology of the human body, understands responsibility and integrity, understands who he is, has an extensive amount of life experience, does not have temper tantrums, thinks before he administers any punishment, knows when to stop the play, knows the difference between childish behavior and internal resistance, know there is more to training than just beating and punishing a slave, and that sex is only a small part of the whole. 


I have to say I do agree with this.  There is playing around, but I have met few who aspire to what is written above, & I highly respect those that do.  No, there are no classes to get there, no seminars, no degrees.  Getting to that place, & this is only my opinion, takes a certain amount of life knowledge from that school of hard knocks.   It takes screwing up, & learning to admit mistakes, and learning how to not make them again.  And yes, some young people are much older than their years, but I don't see many who have the kind of wisdom & temperance that Kindandcruel is referring to.

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 6:10:04 AM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel
A Master has an in-depth understanding of psychology, physiology of the human body, understands responsibility and integrity, understands who he is, has an extensive amount of life experience, does not have temper tantrums, thinks before he administers any punishment, knows when to stop the play, knows the difference between childish behavior and internal resistance, know there is more to training than just beating and punishing a slave, and that sex is only a small part of the whole. 


I have to say I do agree with this.  There is playing around, but I have met few who aspire to what is written above, & I highly respect those that do.  No, there are no classes to get there, no seminars, no degrees.  Getting to that place, & this is only my opinion, takes a certain amount of life knowledge from that school of hard knocks.   It takes screwing up, & learning to admit mistakes, and learning how to not make them again.  And yes, some young people are much older than their years, but I don't see many who have the kind of wisdom & temperance that Kindandcruel is referring to.



I can understand how this may appeal to a great many people.  In turn, can you understand how a great many people would view this as a personal preference (that may or may not reflect the reality of an individual) that seeks to define all "Masters" (and power exchange relationships), and why we may dismiss it as the expression of one man's ideal?
 
John

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 6:18:41 AM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel
A Master has an in-depth understanding of psychology, physiology of the human body, understands responsibility and integrity, understands who he is, has an extensive amount of life experience, does not have temper tantrums, thinks before he administers any punishment, knows when to stop the play, knows the difference between childish behavior and internal resistance, know there is more to training than just beating and punishing a slave, and that sex is only a small part of the whole. 


I have to say I do agree with this.  There is playing around, but I have met few who aspire to what is written above, & I highly respect those that do.  No, there are no classes to get there, no seminars, no degrees.  Getting to that place, & this is only my opinion, takes a certain amount of life knowledge from that school of hard knocks.   It takes screwing up, & learning to admit mistakes, and learning how to not make them again.  And yes, some young people are much older than their years, but I don't see many who have the kind of wisdom & temperance that Kindandcruel is referring to.



I dont really know what 'playing around' means, we all do stuff that we enjoy, if thats bedroom kink then fair enough whys it playing around? its their life to do with as they please.

Well maybe its just me but I know a lot of younger people who have all the qualities mentioned above and then some. I know people my age who not only embrace all those things but do so without the cynisism or elitism that some of these posts have in them.

Its each to their own i guess, but judging anyone by some alianated aspect of themselves such as age, gender or race is missing out a hell of a lot about them as a person.

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 6:25:58 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


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Ok... I'm still trying to figure out how SEX is not about Control and Service anyways.  lol...

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 6:29:24 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile2

Ok... I'm still trying to figure out how SEX is not about Control and Service anyways.  lol...


Awwww.... now don;t getting all logical on us all now!
 
the.dark.

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 6:31:38 AM   
Cuffkinks


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There's no reason it can't be about all of the above. It's about whatever the two (or more) people involved want it to be about, and what works for them. Someone used the term "WIIWD." If I have to label my lifestyle, I'd rather use that. Because for my little girl and myself...
It is about control...
It is about service...
It is about sex...
It is about fun.
It's about whatever feels good at the time.

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 6:44:05 AM   
MissIsis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis
Getting to that place, & this is only my opinion, takes a certain amount of life knowledge from that school of hard knocks. 


I can understand how this may appeal to a great many people.  In turn, can you understand how a great many people would view this as a personal preference (that may or may not reflect the reality of an individual) that seeks to define all "Masters" (and power exchange relationships), and why we may dismiss it as the expression of one man's ideal?
 
John


Yes, I did put on here, that it was "only my opinion".

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 6:53:35 AM   
MissIsis


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colouredin, please forgive me if you took my posting as being judgmental.  It was never my intention.  I work closely with young adults every day.  I love being around them.  There are a few I have seen the things I have mentioned in, but most are not seeking the intensity I am, which is fine.  They are young & should enjoy being so.   The last time I got married, I chose to not look at age as a deciding factor, thinking that I might be missing out on something great in my life.  I married someone very young, & regretted it, in spite of whatever "fun" we had together.  He ended up costing me quite a bit of money by being irresponsible & not caring.  I hope you can understand, that what you perceive as my judgment of age comes from my own life experiences of being intimately involved with younger adults. 

Playing to me, is fine.  It can be fun. It can be a great learning experience.  Maybe I am not good at getting my point across about the deeper things the lifestyle can offer.  I want more than just sex.  I want more than just opportunities to play with people.  In some ways, I want it all, but for me, sex is maybe the least important part of the lifestyle that I want, even though, I love that, too. 

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 7:04:41 AM   
Flogmaster


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LMAO...yes...you darn little "whip her snappiers"...are always a pleasure to pass knowledge on...to.

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/17/2008 7:20:43 AM   
SimplyMichael


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All I know about the "old ways" are that it was gay MEN.  Lets think about this for a second and consider some (and this is sarcasm as I don't think these are gay men's only contributions) of the things that have been passed down from gay men.  Felching, glory holes, anal fisting, bath houses, and god knows how many fetishes they put the "edge" onto, things like golden showers and such, all things that used to go on in the back rooms of "leather bars" in the "old days".

I think a gay guy I know said it best at a part at MercnBeths a while back.  "lesbians rarely have sex, only maybe once a week"!

Anyone who thinks sex wasn't a HUGE component of "old guard" has their head up their ass in my oh so humble opinion.l

Long live sex!  I frankly get tired of the anti-sex brigade and do my best to have sex at clubs as often as I can.  Back when my partner was local, I was jokingly called "the naked dom" because I got naked so often when I played and fucked at parties.  Now that I have someone local again, I look forward to reviving a bit of that reputation.

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