RE: Lesbians Attacked

RE: Lesbians Attacked (Full Version)

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beargonewild -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/8/2008 3:46:45 PM)
Even though Canada has Hate crimes in the law books, most crimes of this nature that are technically a hate crime are usually bargained down by the lawyers. It is very rare up here for a hate crime to be processed as a hate crime. Chances are good that when this case reaches the courts, his will be charged and tried for aggravated assault. The sad part is a large percentage of the population here in Canada still equate hate crimes to be crimes against humanity, such as war criminals and crimes of Genocide in third world countries, etc. The concept that a hate crime does include attacks against the LGBT community who should be recieving equal treatment under the eyes of the legal system.

LadyPact -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/8/2008 3:49:51 PM)
Thank you for answering, Bear. Sometimes, the legal matters differ between countries. I'd still tend to think a supposed verbal slur would be a good bargaining chip if the guy was thinking about any type of prosecution before his arrest.

came4U -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/8/2008 3:54:40 PM)
Hate Crime in Canada/Canadian Center for Justice. (policies/procedures) http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-551-x/85-551-x1999000-eng.pdf

beargonewild -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/8/2008 3:58:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Thank you for answering, Bear. Sometimes, the legal matters differ between countries. I'd still tend to think a supposed verbal slur would be a good bargaining chip if the guy was thinking about any type of prosecution before his arrest. Quite often is is used as a bargaining chip and when a person has a good/sleazy lawyer, then it's as if that slur was never said.

Vendaval -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/8/2008 5:12:08 PM)
From reading articles linked to the OP it appears that the attacker has a history of harassing other parents at the school and these two women in particular. They deny making any racial slurs to his offspring and what is clear is that he initiated the physical attacks on both of the women. I do hope that the courts prosecute the incident as a hate crime in light of his behavior, attitude and motivation.

beargonewild -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/9/2008 9:17:28 AM)
After reading further it seems he's been charged with two counts of assault causing bodily harm. He was released and is scheduled to appear in court on Dec 16. As stated in that same article, the Durham police was quoted to saying they are unfamiliar with the Hate Crimes section of the criminal code. Bah, makes me sick knowing that bullshit like this is still happening and the law enforcement agencies fail to act accordingly to the laws they are hired to enforce.

came4U -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/9/2008 9:36:48 AM)
Beargonewild: It did read (I think) in the orig. news article that the police here (Ontario) were baffled as to how to handle a scuffle such as this...'hate crime'. I guess they are not trained on it much yet and many officers are likely not quite sure what to do in that situation. edit: ok I found it: "Dimitriou says the police will be treating the case as a hate crime, but she says she had to push them into it, even though Durham police do have a hate crimes section. "The officer said he wasn't really familiar with the hate crimes division. It's new," she says.http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/Currie_Dimitriou_speak_at_Oshawa_rally_in_wake_of_vicious_attack-5839.aspx. Maybe they should consider training all deparments on how to mandate this new law.

beargonewild -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/9/2008 4:28:07 PM)
That is highly possible came4u. It's to bad that all the police forces across Ontario aren't well versed in the Hate crime division like Metro Toronto Police. Even up where I am, unfortunately the police force hasn't the necessary training nor the skills to deal with crimes involving the LGBT community.

Huntertn -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 4:32:53 PM)
ok he was slured[or so he said]...about what????..and since when is it ok to beat someone ???

beargonewild -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 5:38:38 PM)
Seems that little bit of info wasn't provided in either articles. So the readers don't know if his claims of being racially slurred was true or just a red herring.

opposingtwilight -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 5:48:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild quote: ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight quote: ORIGINAL: Madame4a It is surprising how much gays and lesbians bring up hatred in others... funnily enough, two lesbians were left beaten... the man wasn't .. was he? They might have said something, but the response he gave was unwarranted, in any context...and clearly out of proportion We don't know if he was beaten or not. I highly doubt these two women just layed down and let him beat the crap out of them without lifting a finger. I also find it hard to believe that they did absolutely nothing to provoke him ... I am disgusted by this whole thing for several reasons; adults acting like children, for one thing. Also, the fact that the women are playing the gay card -and- the female card. Growing up I saw lots of little boys told never to hit a girl but I never saw a girl told never to hit a boy. Its almost ingrained in our heads ... A man hits two women--THAT MONSTER! Now add in the gay card and its ... A man brutalized two helpless women because they were lesbians! THAT MONSTER!!!!!! They were all adults and they all behaved badly. They were all wrong. opposingtwilight: before you start ignoring the fact, had you bothered to click the link to the original story? Here is a quote from the original: Tuesday November 11, 2008 CityNews.ca Staff A routine day became anything but for parents outside an Oshawa elementary school last Monday. As Anji Dimitriou walked from the parking lot towards her six-year-old son, police say a man approached her. Her girlfriend, Jane Currie (pictured), was watching from their truck. According to the women, he asked Dimitriou, "Which one of you two men spoke to my kid?" He allegedly called the couple "f*ing dyke lesbians." Now, you tell me how this aggravated assault isn't crossing the line into a prejudicial slur and hate crime? It is one thing to physically assault another because they spat on you or they were retaliating against a perceived threat from you, yet to start slinging prejudicial slurs against a same sex couple is a whole new ball game. I can guarantee that if a man pulled that same bullshit on you, you'd be the first to pull the female card against your attacker. Maybe if you walked in our shoes for a month and see that living life as a gay man or a lesbian woman is no effin bed of roses at times. I live in a city of 58,000 and Oshawa has approx 146000 people. It is a damn shame that in a city 3X the sze as mine something such as that had to happen. The cold hard truth is homophobia happens in every damn city, town and village on this planet. And it's attitudes like yours which makes me really wonder about the mentality of humans. Please stop twisting my words. I am not defending his actions nor am I excusing them. He hit someone, two someones in fact, in a school yard and that is a terrible thing for anyone to do. What bothers me is that everything I have read on this is extremely one sided. The focus isn't on the fact that two people were attacked and assaulted in a school yard. The focus is that two lesbians were attacked by a man** in a school yard. That bothers me. As for whether or not I would "play the female card" ... I wouldn't have to. Someone else would play it for me, I am sure. Thats my whole point. It does not matter who these women were or who this man was. Nothing seems to matter except the part where some awful man hauled off and beat the snot out of two lesbians. (Not two women ... Two lesbians, because for some reason that seems to make it a hate crime. Like if they were just two women who happened to get beat up by this guy at the same time, it wouldn't be as bad because it wasn't a hate crime. It was just an assault.) I know its hard to be gay but guess what? Everyone's life is hard for some reason or another. Everyone has some cross to bear. Not once have I said what he did was OK or right or even less wrong than it really is. I do think that it is wrong to try and scream HATE CRIME just because the women happened to be lesbians and when I read the article, thats how it felt to me. The emphasis was not put on the fact that this was done in a school yard, in front of children (which to me seems like the bigger travesty here) but it was put on the fact that the victims were lesbians and the attacker was a man.

camille65 -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 6:02:04 PM)
It isn't that they 'happen' to be lesbians that they were beaten, it was because they are lesbians they were beaten.

opposingtwilight -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 6:06:39 PM)
According to the very one sided article ... ... What caused him to snap? I understand some people are insanely homophobic. My mother happens to be one of those people. I understand that homophobic people sometimes do horrible, awful things to people who either are or are percieved to be homosexual. However, most of these same homophobic people are also cowards to the enth degree. They will gather together in their hateful little groups or they will do something under cover of darkness or in a private place where they are not likely to be seen. They do not attack people in public places like school yards ... Unless they are somehow provoked to the point where they see red and just snap. So what caused him to snap? Gee, could it have been something that they said? Possibly to his kid? No, we do not know if it was a racial slur or if he came up with that little detail when it became apparent he was going to be in big trouble for this. But if he walked up to them and demanded to know which of them said something to his kid, chances are SOMETHING -was- said to his kid. I think any parent, regardless of sexual orientation, will agree that when it comes to people saying or doing something to or in regards to your offspring, you see red and are liable to do things you would not ordinarily do. That doesn't make it a hate crime. It does not excuse his actions either though.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 6:56:28 PM)
Exactly, and that's what's wrong with the whole category of "hate crime." Who knows--who cares--what his motivation was? He assaulted them and that's enough to get him arrested. I don't think it matters an iota whether he assaulted them because they were lesbians. The most he can claim are mitigating circumstances if he felt that his child was in danger (unlikely). quote: ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight But if he walked up to them and demanded to know which of them said something to his kid, chances are SOMETHING -was- said to his kid.

beargonewild -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 7:00:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 It isn't that they 'happen' to be lesbians that they were beaten, it was because they are lesbians they were beaten. Thank you camille.

stella41b -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 7:02:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight I know its hard to be gay but guess what? Everyone's life is hard for some reason or another. Everyone has some cross to bear. Not once have I said what he did was OK or right or even less wrong than it really is. I do think that it is wrong to try and scream HATE CRIME just because the women happened to be lesbians and when I read the article, thats how it felt to me. The emphasis was not put on the fact that this was done in a school yard, in front of children (which to me seems like the bigger travesty here) but it was put on the fact that the victims were lesbians and the attacker was a man. [/size][/size] Ya think so opposing? Try walking a mile in my shoes, it might educate you a little and just might cause you to stop and think before coming out with such claptrap. I agree with your main premise here, life is hard. But that doesn't justify people coming over to you and physically attacking you just because they don't like you or the way you live, or causing you further grief. This isn't pulling the 'female' card or the 'lesbian' card, but stating the reason and motive for the attack. The only thing which makes it harder to be gay or lesbian than being straight is the prejudice and hatred from other people. Aside from that it don't make any difference what your gender or sexual orientation is.

Racquelle -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 7:15:58 PM)
Why the definition of "hate crimes" matter: Because each one of us is or could be considered part of a minority or marginalized class. When this happens, we are robbed of an essential power that equality brings. We are robbed of power and then victimized. Didn't you ever hear the term "pick on someone your own size?" And his claim of a racial slur? Well, if it were true, which I am betting it is not, let's look at it objectively. Is being called the N word as bad as being beaten for being the L word? Of course not.

beargonewild -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 7:30:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight According to the very one sided article ... ... What caused him to snap? I understand some people are insanely homophobic. My mother happens to be one of those people. I understand that homophobic people sometimes do horrible, awful things to people who either are or are perceived to be homosexual. However, most of these same homophobic people are also cowards to the enth degree. They will gather together in their hateful little groups or they will do something under cover of darkness or in a private place where they are not likely to be seen. They do not attack people in public places like school yards ... Unless they are somehow provoked to the point where they see red and just snap. So what caused him to snap? Gee, could it have been something that they said? Possibly to his kid? No, we do not know if it was a racial slur or if he came up with that little detail when it became apparent he was going to be in big trouble for this. But if he walked up to them and demanded to know which of them said something to his kid, chances are SOMETHING -was- said to his kid. I think any parent, regardless of sexual orientation, will agree that when it comes to people saying or doing something to or in regards to your offspring, you see red and are liable to do things you would not ordinarily do. That doesn't make it a hate crime. It does not excuse his actions either though. Now how the hell did I twist your words when I quoted exactly your post? The reality to crimes such as written in the article is until people of the LGBT community are finally treated in ALL aspects with respect and equality, we have no choice but to use the Hate Crime Laws to get our bloody point across that we do not consent nor do we tolerate being harassed, beaten up or killed because we happen to be faggots or dykes. Using this as a base line definition: The dictionary defines a hate crime as "any of various crimes... when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (as one based on color, creed, gender, or sexual orientation) Then apply that definition to the article and thus, calling the women ""f***ing dyke lesbians." falls under the umbrella. Exactly in the same manner as slinging racial slurs against Jews, Blacks, Italians, Irish, Germans, Islamic nation, Muslims, etc. So by you saying that these two women are just victims of a simple crime of being assaulted by another? Which indirectly you then imply that Matthew Sheppard was just another victim of a murder, or Martin Luthur King's assination was just another unfortunate murder or the 6 million Jews who died in concentration camps. Sorry dear but each example falls under the definition of a hate crime. The only differences are each case the extenuating circumstances are different: that's all.

ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 7:31:17 PM)
Excuse me but if he called her a "f'ing dyke lesbian", what's the problem? She is, in fact, a lesbian, a dyke, and she probably has sex with her partner. Didn't the gay "community" decide a few years ago to no longer be offended by words like fag, queer, dyke, etc.? OK, so I'm being a bit fascetious here. But honestly: when did the whole "Sticks and stones..." mentality die? You can call me anything you like but the only way it will hurt me is if I allow it to. So some woman called this guys kid some bad words. He couldn't simply explain to his child about ignorance and perhaps report the offender to the school administrators? No, he's gotta freak out assault this woman. Very childish. And can someone tell me why he has been restricted from school grounds without being convicted of anything? What about the woman who -allegedly- threw the racial slurs - shouldn't there be some sort of sanction for her, too? I just can't get too worked up about either side here - they sound like a bunch of little kids who need their skulls cracked together and their mouths washed out with soap. I wouldn't be suprised if the kids get along better... Just my 3-cents worth... ~Dave

beargonewild -> RE: Lesbians Attacked (12/10/2008 7:35:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight They will gather together in their hateful little groups or they will do something under cover of darkness or in a private place where they are not likely to be seen. They do not attack people in public places like school yards ... Unless they are somehow provoked to the point where they see red and just snap. Oh really? What about Columbine? I mean, fuck...school kids don't go around shooting fellow classmates in their own school now do they? (deliberate usage of heavy sarcasm)

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