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WinsomeDefiance -> RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub and a slave (11/25/2008 7:13:15 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Rover
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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
It may not be “bodily harm” but it can be emotionally painful and detrimental to your life and well-being. Many people improperly categorize themselves. Then they end up unhappy and in the wrong style relationship with the wrong type of person and they do “eat” each other up emotionally.
Alternatively, those people have been fed unrealistic expectations about what it means to *be* a (fill in the blank) and are unhappy trying to live up to something that is unattainable beyond the covers of erotic fictional novels.
Whether fed unrealistic expectations, or aspiring to them - it amounts to the same thing.
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A good slave would not be a good match for a good Dom anymore than a good Master would be a good match for a good submissive. The motives and rewards systems do not mesh well enough to cross boundaries successfully or our BDSM community would never have given birth to the two different categories of lifestyles in the first place.
First of all, what constitutes "good"? Is it your definition of "good" or Masterdx's? And whose definition of "slave" and "submissive" are you using? I've met many unslavish slaves, and slavish submissives. Haven't you? Or aren't they "real"?
I think the verbiage makes more sense if it is written as:
A slave would not be a compatible match for someone who had no desire to own him/her, any more than a Master would be a good match for someone who had no wish to be owned. Unless we are back to the Dominants are renters and Masters are owners, mindset. In which case, I have a handyman's dream on the market. She is a slight fixer upper, but has great investment potential.
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In my short time here, I have read hundreds, if not over a thousand complaint threads. A great many of them are due to improper self categorization.
If one is self-categorizing, who are you to say that it's improper? Just because someone else thinks that you, or I, are improperly categorized as Dominants and should be categorized as submissives, does not make it true. And you are not the latest incarnation of Jon Jacobs, divining for everyone else who is and who isn't categorized "correctly".
I gotta tell ya... if there's only one true way of defining a slave or submissive, you'll have a heck of a time trying to explain how that isn't "one true wayism". It seems self-evident to me, but then, I'm just simple minded.
Sometimes, the anti-twuism becomes a twuism all its own. I'm really starting to dislike the whole twue argument in response to anyone's opinions. I think it is unnecessarily adversarial, and implies that the one making the argument believes THEIR twuism is twuer than the one they are bashing (that is actually harder to say out loud than it was to type...sorta like peter piper picked a pecker )..... It is one of the few times I've found I've disagreed with you John.
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I have read about pregnant girls, people who relocate, people that quit their jobs and host of other real life traumas because someone thought they were getting into one thing and ended up in something entirely different and unsatisfactory. It pisses me off to see the same community that says “there is no difference” and “don’t box me in” then do an about face and join together to lynch someone for being in a relationship that was a bad fit. It was a bad fit because no one knew what the fuck they were or who they are in the first place.
First of all, stupidity and gullibility are a bad fit for any relationship (if those folks did not engage in their due diligence). And second, there is no guarantee that any relationship, regardless of how you may categorize the partners, regardless of their lifestyle, will work out to everyone's satisfaction for all of eternity. Think of that unrealistic expectation thing again.
Sometimes you don't know who you are, and what you are capable of, until you try your best at it! I've made my share of mistakes. Put myself in dangerous situations. Failed miserably at slavery, succeeded beautifully at it as well. The one thing I know, is that it was my right to make those choices for myself, and screw anyone who thinks that it was because of mislabeling. It was all about the journey, and the self-exploration. Just because a person isn't a good fit in one situation doesn't mean they aren't a good fit in a completely different one - even when the 'labels' are the same. It isn't often that I disagree with you, Kal, but in this particular scenario, I do.
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It is rare that a complaint thread would be valid if the couple got together under the correct assumptions in the first place.
I could take this more seriously if you had something statistical to back it up. But really all you're doing is stating some wishful thinking as factual. Contrary to your intention, if this is part of the foundation of your assertion, it actually detracts from the argument.
I don't need statistics to know that people can be idiots. I just need to open the paper, watch the news or answer my phone. Again, there isn't always a way of KNOWING that one is on the wrong path until they've hooked arms with their traveling companions and danced ther way down that yellow brick road. Yes, sometimes it is a matter of unrealistic expectations, but if I'd never allowed myself the opportunity to try on different 'labels' to see how they fit, I'd have never realized what works for me and what doesn't. I look forward to aspiring to all sorts of things out of reach, it certainly beats the alternative in my mind. I spent too many years of my life, being afraid of failing and never risking it all to win my hearts desire.
(snip) not even addressing the rest
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