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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 1:13:42 PM   
antipode


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quote:

I find it virtually impossible to comprehend the submissive mindset


I am puzzled here. If you do not comprehend the submissive mindset, how does a sub allow you to dom her, for the longer term? Why would you even want to dom? What you propose is a bit like trying to drive a car while sitting in the back - you certainly cannot be in the driver's seat.

(in reply to DannyDemanding)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 1:15:07 PM   
antipode


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quote:

that I'd be doing it just for the experience


I think you could possibly find you are actually submissive.

(in reply to DannyDemanding)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 1:25:36 PM   
DannyDemanding


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

Every now and then, a bit...  But I think Rover put it very very well.  I'm not submissive, but I do, on the very rare occasion 'bottom'.

That being said, I HAVE been a sub in the past, when I first began to experience and experiment with this lifestyle.  It wasn't who I am, but, it was a very very valuable learning experience, and I look upon it fondly and it brought me a good understanding of what 'the other side' might be thinking and feeling and wanting I think.

It brings to mind a lovely song...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZdlnqxFWpE


Aaaaaarrrrrrrgh! Please don't link me to show tunes!!!
But seriously, thanks for the insightful reply.

(in reply to BKSir)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 1:40:14 PM   
DannyDemanding


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quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

I am puzzled here. If you do not comprehend the submissive mindset, how does a sub allow you to dom her, for the longer term? Why would you even want to dom? What you propose is a bit like trying to drive a car while sitting in the back - you certainly cannot be in the driver's seat.

A sub allows me to dom her because I provide her what she wants and needs. I want to dom because I enjoy doing this for her.

This is not rocket science. Through communication (both verbal and non), we develop an understanding of the wants and needs of others. Filling those needs is then a simple matter of having the means and the sincere desire to do so. This principal is not unique to the lifestlye, it universally covers interpesonal relations. I think it's funny that so many in the lifestlye think there's something mystical about this.

I won't say that I haven't had problems in the past. I have been with submissives who weren't communicative - verbally or otherwise, whose attitude was, "You're the Dom; you should know what I want." My response to that was, "You're not looking for a Dom. You're looking for a mindreader."

(in reply to antipode)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 1:41:20 PM   
DannyDemanding


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quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

I think you could possibly find you are actually submissive.

That has been suggested and I won't rule out the possibility. It's an intriguing notion.

(in reply to antipode)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 1:42:17 PM   
AlexandraLynch


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I used to, but when I developed this particular chronic pain condition, my responses to stimuli became erratic and varied. I can't assume anything from the way I react to certain things except broadly, and so I tend to approach new techniques very cautiously so that both the person I am working on and I can learn what we're doing, and do it safely and well.

(in reply to sleeper798)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 1:47:49 PM   
LaTigresse


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One thing I can tell you from my own experience, the best understanding I got about what was going on in a submissive/slave's mind was in doing ALOT of listening and reading. There are some people on these forums that have helped me gain so much insight. In addition, just talking to friends that are either slaves or submissives, asking them questions. Absolutely priceless.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to DannyDemanding)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 2:08:03 PM   
E2Sweet


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If you feel like sampling the submissive side of the equation would bring you something positive and you feel you could follow thought without too many issues arising, then why not just try it? What's the worst that could happen?

No disrespect to the purely dominant folks here, but somehow I don't think you're going to get much along the lines of useful insight from those that post who have never actually tried submitting... What I'm seeing is kind of like folks telling someone who is asking what its like to skydive how ridiculous it is for him to want to go skydiving... Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion of course, but I think this is one of those subjects that one simply doesn't truly know until he or she tries it.

I think Winsome is very wise in suggesting you favor the advise from those that have experienced both sides of the kneel...


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"If it doesn't make you smile then chances are you're not doing it right."

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 2:37:24 PM   
DannyDemanding


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quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet

somehow I don't think you're going to get much along the lines of useful insight from those that post who have never actually tried submitting... What I'm seeing is kind of like folks telling someone who is asking what its like to skydive how ridiculous it is for him to want to go skydiving... Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion of course, but I think this is one of those subjects that one simply doesn't truly know until he or she tries it.

You make a really good point. I particularly like the analogy you used because it reinforces the point I made earlier- some things you can't just read about, or ask others about. Some things just have to be experienced. Nothing I ever read or heard came close to the feeling of actually jumping out of an airplane, and there's no way I could ever adequately describe it to someone. You either do it, or you don't.

I think my mind is made up on this subject.

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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 4:38:58 PM   
ThundersCry


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I would not let the fear of ever being less than...if, at some point in time you explore some things that submissives experience...
 
Besides, not everyone experiences the different mind sets within those roles...
 
Then it becomes about... finding a sadistic wench that wants....you...

(in reply to DannyDemanding)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 7:31:00 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DannyDemanding

For true Dom/mes (not switches) - have you ever thought of submitting (or even done so) - just to try to better understand submissives?


Bottoming (in the sense of submitting for the duration of a scene) works for me, and not just to better understand submissives.

I would rather kill myself than live in submission, however.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DannyDemanding)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 8:31:02 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DannyDemanding

For true Dom/mes (not switches) - have you ever thought of submitting (or even done so) - just to try to better understand submissives?


No...

Should I have sex with a guy... just to understand what it's like for a female?  aww NO!  not doing that either.

I don't see any difference between the two.  Frankly... If I want to understand a submissive better... or more specifically my girls... well.. I do it the old fashion way... I talk with them.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DannyDemanding)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 9:56:02 PM   
IronBear


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Jolly good show. At least that is out in the open which make is easier for me to ignore you and any posts you make. Than will leave you to enjoy those who appear to find you amusing or informative. Was I being too harse on you? Possibly, and yes I was judgemental based on a knickname. However I based my comments on my instinct which while has on rare occasions been wrong about people, is mostly on target. I wish you well.. 

< Message edited by IronBear -- 11/24/2008 10:03:55 PM >


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to DannyDemanding)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 10:28:23 PM   
SailingBum


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Uh that is like asking me.  "if  I'd consider a sex change"  It really cracks me up when I see posts from the girls on here posting " guys will do anything to get laid"  You wouldn't believe some of the offers I have had LOL.

BadOne

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/24/2008 10:30:24 PM   
DavanKael


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I find the idea of someone being 'purely' (Quantitatively 100%) dominant or submissive rather unlikely.  I respect when a person has attempted to understand the other side of the kneel via experience.  The willingness and ability to embrace different experiences, I think, potentially allows another to understand those on the opposite side of their preferred side of the kneel, potentially making them more adept at both physical and psychological...acknowledging up front that I identify as a switch and, thus, see no conflict despite a marked preference. 
  Davan

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It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
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Waiting is

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(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/25/2008 3:23:08 AM   
SteveAndJaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: DannyDemanding

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Do you want to know what it's like to submit or be submissive (good luck with that), or do you want to know what it's like to bottom?  Huge difference to many people. 

Thanks for making the distinction. I do realize I won't know what it's like to be submissive. But I think that knowing what it's like to submit might be an interesting life experience.


Yes, yes and yes but none of that was of a sexual mindset

Did you have parents growing up?  Have you ever been employed?  Were you part of a team with a coach?
 
If you want the experience of submitting your will to another without *being* a submissive, you've (presumably) already had it.
 
John

(in reply to Rover)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/25/2008 3:40:40 AM   
SteveAndJaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DannyDemanding


One needs only be a good communicator and observer to figure out how another ticks. Consider the people who do this to an extreme, and for a living- FBI profilers. Surely they understand what makes serial killers tick. They undertand why such people do what they do. Yet surely, they must regularly say (to themselves if no one else), "How can someone do such things?" (And with that, I apologize for the creepy comparison.)



I think this says it all. Its about educating yourself about a person. It's about tuning in with something as simple as a certain look, a blink of the eye and it takes a deep level of 'connection' to stride confidently into that place. He knows what makes her wet between the legs and thats enough! Its all ying and yang and you certainly don't need to try ying to be yang!

A Dominant does not need to try the sub route and even if he did he is unlikely to understand his submissives mind because her fantasy is unique to her. Its simple... she gets turned on by him saying certain things, the tone of his voice, the look in his eye. In turn he can try those same certain words applied on him, he can try that tone of her voice, that look in her eye but if it doesn't turn him on then why should he understand how she is feeling?

(in reply to DannyDemanding)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/25/2008 6:44:14 AM   
Aswad


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Actually, he's missing the point. Good profilers can certainly think "how can someone do such things?" Great profilers think it in a different tone of "voice" and a subsequent chill down their spine. Excellent profilers don't need to ask, as they already know. This is kind of like with method acting: a method actor must internalize the role they are about to play, and many need to retain the role off-screen in order to make it work. When Ganz stepped out of the make-up room as Hitler, people who had met the man fell silent, and someone whispered "der Führer ist zuruck!" ("he is back!"). The woman who played Martha Goebbels broke down after the scene where she poisons her children to "save" them from a world without the Third Reich. Both of them are method actors who had to, in part, become the person they were portraying in order to do so to the best of their ability. An excellent profiler will do something similar, and has the mental flexibility to step off the cliff and the fortitude to climb back up. But those are wasted on the average serial killer, who is acting impulsively or irrationally. They're better applied to those who have acted rationally, who simply have an aberrant personality or different set of values that they live by.

However, few people have a developed ability to internalize another person in that way, to take on a different mindset and values temporarily, and in effect compartmentalize their mind into primary and secondary personality profiles. Some may even consider that ability to constitute, or be symptomatic of, a pathology. I would say that it is only pathological if one lacks a sense of which is the primary personality profile, or one lacks control over it (e.g. involuntary dissociation, triggers, etc.), or possibly also if the transition is quick and easy to accomplish. Spending too much time in a secondary personality profile, however, will be damaging, since that will affect deeper responses and basic conditioning, at best causing dissonance.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to SteveAndJaz)
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RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/25/2008 6:47:06 AM   
LaTigresse


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Please excuse a temporary hyjack........Aswad I've missed your posts, it's nice to see them again. You always give me something to think about.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Ever try the other side? - 11/25/2008 6:52:36 AM   
VampiresLair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DannyDemanding

For true Dom/mes (not switches) - have you ever thought of submitting (or even done so) - just to try to better understand submissives? Now I'm thinking that I should give submission a try - at least once. I'm not likely to enjoy it, but won't I be a better Dom for having had the experience?


How would doing something you hated and were bad at give you a better insight into how someone who enjoys service and is good at it ticks?
I do not submit. I cant, I have no interest in it and I know full well I would be a terrible and unhappy submissive if I ever tried. I often wonder at why people think that this would make me a better dominant. Would giving Fox a whip and letting him hurt someone make him a better submissive?
It is one thing to give into a whim and submit because it interests you, and its quite another to break out the one twue way and state that any dominant who has not submitted is less of a dominant for it. I see no reason to involve myself in something I will do badly, just for the possibility that I will get better at something I do well already.

DV



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Separately we are DiurnalVampire and DVsFox

10/18 Wedding date. 1 year and still blissfully happy

10/13/10 3 year anniversary of his becoming my Fox

Talk impolitely to me, baby - Thanks sunshinemiss



(in reply to DannyDemanding)
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