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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 11:35:12 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

The financial crisis was caused by deregulation.

Flatly, categorically, and completely incorrect.

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 11:40:39 AM

NumberSix

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

The financial crisis was caused by deregulation.

Flatly, categorically, and completely incorrect.

Flatulantly without merit.

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 11:44:23 AM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

Apparently you misunderstood the question. I didn't say "name a tax loophole". I said "Name one that the current graduated system encourages"

You really think rich people wouldn't seek out tax loopholes under a flat tax? Really?

So whenever you want to show me a tax loophole that is due to the current system, I'm all ears.

(Actually...you're all sponge).

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 4:27:49 PM

Cagey18

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Unbelievable. The financial crisis was caused by deregulation. The government had nothing to do with junky mortgages or the housing bubble. In fact, it's Exhibit A of what happens when you try to let markets regulate themselves.

Yup, agree 100%. Others can put their blinders on and talk about the beauty of an unregulated free market, but the fact remains that when you allow investors to buy insurance policies from AIG...

without AIG having the capital to back them up...

you have a huge problem when investors' portfolios go south, and then they want AIG to pay up on the policies.

The problem becomes a huge giant problem when AIG issues multiple policies on the same portfolio! That's akin to ten people buying a fire insurance policy on your house. Big problem if your house burns down, and all ten want to collect, now isn't it?

Yes boys and girls, that's what happened. All thanks to unregulated policies.

And those were thanks to Sen. Phil Gramm (R).

Who would have been McCain's Treasury Secretary.

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 4:28:52 PM

Cagey18

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

Apparently you misunderstood the question. I didn't say "name a tax loophole". I said "Name one that the current graduated system encourages"

You really think rich people wouldn't seek out tax loopholes under a flat tax? Really?

So whenever you want to show me a tax loophole that is due to the current system, I'm all ears.

(Actually...you're all sponge).

Bwah! Good one.

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 8:43:04 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Unbelievable. The financial crisis was caused by deregulation. The government had nothing to do with junky mortgages or the housing bubble. In fact, it's Exhibit A of what happens when you try to let markets regulate themselves.

Yup, agree 100%. Others can put their blinders on and talk about the beauty of an unregulated free market, but the fact remains that when you allow investors to buy insurance policies from AIG...

without AIG having the capital to back them up...

you have a huge problem when investors' portfolios go south, and then they want AIG to pay up on the policies.

The problem becomes a huge giant problem when AIG issues multiple policies on the same portfolio! That's akin to ten people buying a fire insurance policy on your house. Big problem if your house burns down, and all ten want to collect, now isn't it?

Yes boys and girls, that's what happened. All thanks to unregulated policies.

And those were thanks to Sen. Phil Gramm (R).

Who would have been McCain's Treasury Secretary.

I like this post!
There are always 2 sides to every story.
I don't see where "deregulation" has been such a great thing,
ESPECIALLY for the American workers.

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 9:08:32 PM

Termyn8or

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I have always had trouble admitting I am wrong, to myself. I need real convincing, real things, not just concepts to do it. But once I admit it to myself I will admit it to others.

I had always been in favor of deregulation, or the absence of regulation. However this last decade or so has taught me a thing or three. We have thieves in suits and ties. They helped themselves quite well and hurt us badly. This cannot be allowed to happen again.

I have changed my stance on this issue (alert the media) partly due to the discussions on here.

Unfortunately my OP has been forgotten, about punishing outsourcing and rewarding "insourcing". Using the tax structire to do so.

Oh well, this is CM, what did I expect ?

T

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 9:28:47 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Unfortunately my OP has been forgotten, about punishing outsourcing and rewarding "insourcing". Using the tax structire to do so.

...well, that's just subtle protectionism. In a global marketplace that's the equivilant of sticking a sign on your back that says 'kick me'.

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 11:27:49 PM

Lordandmaster

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It's not subtle protectionism. It's unsubtle protectionism. And...yanno...if the global free market ain't really workin' out so good deez dayz, the only alternative is some limited form of protectionism. The law of the excluded middle, after all.

Edited to add: T sure has come around. We used to clash constantly. Now it's like we're on exactly the same wavelength.

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Unfortunately my OP has been forgotten, about punishing outsourcing and rewarding "insourcing". Using the tax structire to do so.

...well, that's just subtle protectionism. In a global marketplace that's the equivilant of sticking a sign on your back that says 'kick me'.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 11/27/2008 11:29:21 PM >

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 11:36:56 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It's not subtle protectionism. It's unsubtle protectionism.

....then the question is, can the USA survive economically if every other country it trades with throws up their own protectionist tariffs? Is a world wide recession the best time to start a trade war?

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/27/2008 11:44:04 PM

Lordandmaster

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First of all, every country has protectionist tariffs. Maybe there's a country on earth with no tariffs on any goods whatsoever, but I kinda doubt it.

Second, you can institute protections without initiating a trade war. "Hey, Britain, we kinda suck at making haggis, so we're going to slap some tariffs on your haggis in order to protect our haggis stuffers, but obviously we still want you as a military ally." Actually, that's basically how the world works.

And third, the U.S. is a major net importer and at least pretends to have some of the most rigorous health and safety regulations on the planet. So remind me, how does global free trade help us again? I forgot the argument. (Maybe that's cuz it was forgettable.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It's not subtle protectionism. It's unsubtle protectionism.

....then the question is, can the USA survive economically if every other country it trades with throws up their own protectionist tariffs? Is a world wide recession the best time to start a trade war?

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RE: How's this as part of a tax plan ? - 11/28/2008 10:46:15 AM

Termyn8or

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LAM, I don't think we are quite on the same wavelength, but we can now pick up some sidebands or harmonics or something like that. I still support drastic reforms, but just not right now. Too many people would be hurt NOW. Sometimes the greater good via a temporary bad is not viable. It's like breaking a guy's legs and then giving him a good job.

The way I see it is that bad mistakes were made about 70 years ago. We can't undo that. Someone pulled our fat out of the fire and we took the easy way out. The big one is still coming, and my greatest hope is that we are strong enough to take the hit when it comes. All the bailout does is forestall the inevitable.

We need to forestall the inevitable until we are back on our feet. Producing our own goods and doing well at it, perhaps even exporting.

That is why I wrote the OP, consider this. Someone mentioned something like smurf toys on the board, I guess they had a riot in China ? Let's consider that.

What does it take to setup a business making smurf, or nerf toys or whatever ? You need cutters and sewers, pump the expanding goop in and it inflates and then after some finishing it is done. We put a Man on the moon and we can't do that ? But then Mattel has to make $19.98 on something for which they charge $19.99.

Well in the OP that money would be double taxed. With a US supplier they might make less, but they are still making money. It would be only the money they save by outsourcing that would incur the heavier tax.

It is the government that encourages outsourcing via free trade agreements, which I might add are in no way shape or form fair trade agreements. People with a mortgage, two cars, a kid in college and who knows what else cannot work as cheaply as someone living in a hut with a thatched grass roof.

The People could have stopped this, by refusing to buy imported items, but they didn't. The market responded, as it always does and always will.

Since we can't trust the People to take care of this problem, it is time to attack the problem from a different angle. That is exactly what a Republic is for. Tax the living shit out of companies that import when they betray the very People who support them.

That was the spirit of the OP.

T

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