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RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 8:51:22 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I guess alot of people live in some ivory tower or something. Don't pick on my Kalishnikov, he is happy here, he doesn't have to work. Just be able to work.

Nice story jlf, but I wonder why you didn't shoot, couldn't get a good chest shot ? I know you don't want to shoot anyone in the back or the balls, stuff like that but it seems to me you could have ordered him down and saved the taxpayers a few bucks. I believe if you shoot a full grown Man who is invading another's home in that manner, you should be reimbursed by the goverment for one round of ammunition. Like a bullet for a bullet policy.

Now people, I see a general misunderstanding here of how the world is. While the US government remained hell bent on taking our guns away,  Saddam Hussein's government was passing out rifles to the People. This of course because they knew that US forces were coming. With those weapons, why didn't they just mount their own offensive and possibly serve up Saddam to the "liberators" on a silver platter ? How many guesses do you want ?

All is not as it seems.

T


Next time you fly the NYC(or anywhere),bring that along and let us know how it goes.

The "right to bear arms" is restricted and "well regulated" by the gubment.



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 8:52:32 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 8:56:03 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Have you heard of the Appilacian School of law?   A shooter with illegally obtained nine millimeter hadnguns.  Unfortunatly for him it was deer season.   Armed citizens 1  wacko shooter 0


And the hunters and non-hunters who get mistakenly shot every season by the Cheneys of the world?

There`s a lot of dicks out there.




_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 8:56:30 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

It says "right to bear arms".Not right to bear firearms.


What the document doesn`t say, is as important as what it does say.






What do you think right to bare arms means? Forearms?


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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 8:57:31 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.



Keep saying that as you`re walked to airport security.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 8:58:19 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		There is a basic problem with waiting periods, permits, weapons training, etc.  The only people who will be enduring this nonsense are law abiding citizens.  The very people who are doing bad things with guns will not be showing up for these, as most can't legally own guns, or they own illegal guns.  I have no problem with someone taking voluntary training, but I am not for any of the other. 

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:00:17 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		You keep saying that like somehow it means we shouldnt own guns.  There are lots of places that you cant carry them.  I could certainly check a gun in baggage at the airport.  There are places you can't drive a car, but that doesn't mean cars are wrong or that we should take everyones' cars away.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:02:52 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		What part of "....shall not be infringed" is so hard for some to grasp?

Regardless of the parenthetical subordinate clause at the front of the 2nd Amendment, the independent clause is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

There is no syntactical nor contextual construction that permits the government to restrict the right of the people to own arms in any way shape or form.  The construction is categorical and unambiguous.  Government has no authority whatsoever to restrict private ownership of weapons.


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:06:57 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		Just because some people shoot others accidently doesn't mean we should ban them.  What about all the people who are killed in their homes by intruders because they were NOT armed?  Should we require that everyone keep a gun in their homes to prevent this?  It boils down to a choice.  You can choose to do whatever you wish, from arming yourself, or having a gunless home and rely on the policet.  Its your choice.  I won't tell you what choice to make, or restrict the means to make it, but don't even try to tell me what I can do, or restrict my choices. 

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:09:14 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

You keep saying that like somehow it means we shouldnt own guns.  



Ummm,where did I say that?

I like the way the document reads now,nothing added,nothing ignored.

It`s the NRA that`s the problem.

I still don`t get why allowing nutters and the un-hinged access to firearms is so sacred to them.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:09:14 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		Hey CL....The Supreme Court got it righr int he Heller case.  The first ten amendents are the Bill of Rights.  These are individual rights, period.  They are not priviledges or handouts, but are rights that supercede the Constitution itself. 

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:11:23 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

There is a basic problem with waiting periods, permits, weapons training, etc.  The only people who will be enduring this nonsense are law abiding citizens.  The very people who are doing bad things with guns will not be showing up for these, as most can't legally own guns, or they own illegal guns.  I have no problem with someone taking voluntary training, but I am not for any of the other. 
So you are saying that because criminals wouldn't have to do any of those things, nobody else should either, right?

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:12:23 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

I still don`t get why allowing nutters and the un-hinged access to firearms is so sacred to them.

"...shall not be infringed."

The wording does not allow for any exceptions. 


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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:14:40 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

Just because some people shoot others accidently doesn't mean we should ban them.  What about all the people who are killed in their homes by intruders because they were NOT armed?  Should we require that everyone keep a gun in their homes to prevent this?  It boils down to a choice.  You can choose to do whatever you wish, from arming yourself, or having a gunless home and rely on the policet.  Its your choice.  I won't tell you what choice to make, or restrict the means to make it, but don't even try to tell me what I can do, or restrict my choices. 
You make it sound like there are "billions and billions" of p[eople who are killed in their homes each year because they were unarmed.  Your "argument", such as it is, might hold a bit more weight if you had some actual numbers to support your NRA scare-tactic propaganda.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:15:51 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		I am a member of the NRA and take offense at the idea that the organization stands for "nutters and the unhinged" to access firearms.  The NRA does not want those types to have access to firearms, but they are in a constant fight with gun banners to stop laws which would impose restrictions on all gun owners instead of the wrong potential gun owners.  If any gun ban group would out forth a bill that addressed the nutters only, and did not infringe at all on the rest of us, then you might find that the NRA would back it.  The NRA spends millions each year with the Eddie Eagle program that teaches kids gun safety.  I have never heard of any gun ban group spending one dime in that area.  The NRA is not the problem, its the gun banners who act as if they want to stop the nutters when they really want to stop us all.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:19:46 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		There was a study, I believe by John Lott, that said that guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self defense.  Many times the gun is never fired, and many of these never go reported. 
I never said billions and billions....anti gunners like yourself seem to like to say things like "billions and billions".  I have no idea what the Constitution says in your country, but here we have that right...end of story.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:22:43 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
I am saying that it should not be required but optional for those who wish to take them.  You can pass any law you want, and make it as hard to get a gun as you can for a law abiding citizen, but the fact remains, the criminals will have them no matter what.  All you do with your laws is hinder people like me from exercising my right to own a gun and defend myself.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

There is a basic problem with waiting periods, permits, weapons training, etc.  The only people who will be enduring this nonsense are law abiding citizens.  The very people who are doing bad things with guns will not be showing up for these, as most can't legally own guns, or they own illegal guns.  I have no problem with someone taking voluntary training, but I am not for any of the other. 
So you are saying that because criminals wouldn't have to do any of those things, nobody else should either, right?

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:24:49 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

There was a study, I believe by John Lott, that said that guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self defense.  Many times the gun is never fired, and many of these never go reported. 
I never said billions and billions....anti gunners like yourself seem to like to say things like "billions and billions".  I have no idea what the Constitution says in your country, but here we have that right...end of story.

"There was a study, I think by John Lott..."; well, that's nice. I don't suppose you could link to it so as to give some weight to your argument, eh? I mean, I can write, "Well, there was this fanous study by, I think, Eldridge Cleaver, that concluded gun owners were 5 times more likely to die from their own guns being used against them, than could protect their houses."

Just claiming there's a study ain't good enough, dude.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:31:39 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		I am about 10 minutes away from heading to bed and dont have the time to find it.  As an American, neither study matters really to me.  I choose to own guns, and I will not let any individual or government body take mine away.  You are welcome to do whatever floats your boat, and I ask that you give me that same respect. 
The same goes for you," dude", with your "study".  And again, we can go back and forth here, but it will not change a thing.....There are guns here, and there will always be guns here.  The biggest threat we face now is in the anti-gun types taxing guns and ammo out of the hands of the average person, or trying to ban classes of guns under the "sensible gun control" guise.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you s... - 11/28/2008 9:32:49 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Just claiming there's a study ain't good enough, dude.

He is referring to John Lott's work More Guns, Less Crime, published in 2000 by the University of Chicago Press, ISBN 9780226493640.

You can purchase it from Amazon for $11.20



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Profile   Post #: 80
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