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" manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 8:39:40 AM

bratb

Posts: 50
Joined: 11/7/2008
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Hello ,

There is something that i have been wondering about and would like to ask if i may ?

In this lifestyle i have noticed the many different actions displayed by submissives when at BDSM munches, play events, etc...

The actions in question are ,

always walking being Your Dominant , never in front .

When eating always wait until your Dominant takes Their 1st bite before taking your's.

always open the doors for your Dominant .

While many males will do this for Female Dominants out of habit which is not very unusual. i have seen female submissives do this for their Male & Female Dominants .

Would many of Yyou see these actions as " protocols " politeness , or both ?

Aall answers appreciated .

Respectfully,
girl

< Message edited by bratb -- 12/2/2008 8:41:11 AM >

RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 8:51:38 AM

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Totally depends on the dynamic and the agreements made between the parties.

In my case, I open doors for my Lady, pull out chairs, serve her first, etc. This is not required nor requested, but I do it because that is not only how I was raised, but it is also a way to show deference to Her.

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 9:16:25 AM

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so many women jump to doors before i get there, and i feel awkward or rude if i'm eating and someone else is not, other than that, i always walk side by side and would do so with whoever i'm walking by unless i had a reason not to~

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 9:26:39 AM

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bratb

Hello ,

There is something that i have been wondering about and would like to ask if i may ?

In this lifestyle i have noticed the many different actions displayed by submissives when at BDSM munches, play events, etc...

The actions in question are ,

always walking being Your Dominant , never in front .

When eating always wait until your Dominant takes Their 1st bite before taking your's.

always open the doors for your Dominant .

While many males will do this for Female Dominants out of habit which is not very unusual. i have seen female submissives do this for their Male & Female Dominants .

Would many of Yyou see these actions as " protocols " politeness , or both ?

Aall answers appreciated .

Respectfully,
girl

Depends on the couple and how many manners both parties knew before their relationship. You can turn basic manners into protocols or you can just leave them as manners.

The manners Fox came to me with were taught to him by an old-fashioned father. Minus the patriarchal BS that can be attached to them they fit nicely into a female dom/male sub relationship but they aren't our protocols or rituals. Those I created and taught him during training.

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 9:27:36 AM

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You're in my age group, bratb, so I am sure you learned a lot of the same things that I did. Opening doors, saying "excuse me" to get past someone, all that is manners. If you would do it for strangers in the street, it's manners. (That being the case, I expect folks to use those skillz regardless of orientation!)

Anything different, fancy, or otherwise that you would not just DO as a matter of course is a protocol thing. (This includes the famous capitalization!

) There's various levels of protocol, too, often copied from Euro styles of domestic service. If you get directed to walk two steps behind your dominant, that's protocol.

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 10:44:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelesslyInvo

so many women jump to doors before i get there, and i feel awkward or rude if i'm eating and someone else is not, other than that, i always walk side by side and would do so with whoever i'm walking by unless i had a reason not to~

I'm too spoiled I guess, I never jump to open a door for myself... which really used to be irritating to my daughter, who always got to open the doors when we go anyplace together... lol Now she's just used to it...

But yeah, twice always waits until everyone has their meal before she even dishes hers up, but I think that's more of an old fashioned upbringing then anything else... she is the ultimate hostess. She wouldn't want to be in the middle of filling her plate and have someone need something!! lol

And we all walk side by side, it's more comfy that way, but she does always take our coats when we remove them, and she holds them for us to put them on... But I don't know that I would call that protocol.

Jewel

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 11:16:25 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bratb

Would many of Yyou see these actions as " protocols " politeness , or both ?

Aall answers appreciated .

Respectfully,
girl

The difference, for me, between simple courtesy and a "protocol" is whether or not it is a formal requirement/patterned style requested by the dominant. If it is done simply out of courtesy, without any formal rule in place, it is courtesy. If the dominant individual requires it, and tells the servant what and how xhe is to fulfill, it is a protocol.

In our household, we use several of the things mentioned. We inform our servants, prior to events, whether they are to walk at 'heel' (two steps behind and to the left of us, behind our left heel) or are free to walk beside us, and whether they must remain at heel when we stop, or are allowed to leave our side. We inform them whether they may eat at will (both at home and away), or whether they must wait for us to eat first OR wait to be fed by one of us, by hand. These, for us, are protocols. We tell our servants exactly how they are to behave under certain circumstance, and the requirements are uniform for any servant.

It is expected that our servants will open doors, hand us from vehicles, carry items, etc., as a courtesy. This we consider 'courtesy/good manners' for a servant. There is no standing 'rule' that one -has- to do so, and, if a servant is otherwise occupied or already working on something else at our command, we may even understand hir neglect of such courtesies

. However, it is up to each servant how xhe will express such courtesies, so we do not consider this a 'protocol', per se.

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 12/2/2008 11:17:56 AM >

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 2:58:51 PM

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Good manners make up many "protocols"..A former Mistress had me read Ms Manners and incorporate it into our dynamic. Regardless if you are in a power exchange or not...isnt it just polite to call someone Ma'am/Sir...open a door for a woman you dont know at the store..or just be nice and give someone some basic dignity? Yea ..it is.

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 3:26:47 PM

bratb

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Joined: 11/7/2008
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Hello Aall ( yes i know You don't like the caps , i left out the slash lol )

i just wanted to thank You Aall for Yyour input .

Being in the lifestyle for many years and being trained in the old guard , i have always had to walk behind my Mistress , open doors, wait for Her to take the first bite before taking mine , using caps & lower case , not being allowed to close the bathroom door unless children or others not in the lifestyle were there .

These actions do not make me feel less of a person than a Dominant although Eeveryone is entitled to Ttheir opinion .

The hardest part is being trained out of the " old gauard " seeing as it comes natural for me . Especially when the Mistress You are now serving doesn't require all of the " old guard protocols " only some of them , way difficult lol !

i understand that many of these actions could be protocol as well as manners although the fun of it is that many outside the lifestyle will not even look twice or know what Yyour up to

.

Thank Yyou Aall for being so kind in replying .

Respectfully .
girl

(in reply to Dilseachd)

RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 3:29:43 PM

bratb

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Joined: 11/7/2008
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Hello Lady Hibiscus,

Your toooo funny lol !

Thanks

Respectfully,
girl

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 6:21:14 PM

Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bratb

Hello ,

There is something that i have been wondering about and would like to ask if i may ?

In this lifestyle i have noticed the many different actions displayed by submissives when at BDSM munches, play events, etc...

The actions in question are ,

always walking being Your Dominant , never in front .

When eating always wait until your Dominant takes Their 1st bite before taking your's.

always open the doors for your Dominant .

While many males will do this for Female Dominants out of habit which is not very unusual. i have seen female submissives do this for their Male & Female Dominants .

Would many of Yyou see these actions as " protocols " politeness , or both ?

Aall answers appreciated .

Respectfully,
girl

hmmmmmmmmmm the first 2 i have seen and know to be mostly protocol but the last i would have to say unless Master instructs me to do so will most likely be coincidence of me being first to the door or the fact of i am a speed walker and tend to do it out of instinct. so i cant tell ya on the last one.

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 6:40:34 PM

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From: Apple County NY
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Protocol because manners are things everyone should be taught, like covering up when sneezing, saying thank you etc.
But since I have trouble envisioning whole families out for a walk one behind the other, I don't think that qualifies as manners.

Beyond that; protocols are what the dominant decrees. It's funny you cite the walking a step behind. I'm supposed to walk next to him but always when in Home Depot and Lowes I wind up at least one step behind. I don't know where he's going, I don't know where the paint aisle is, and I don't have his long legs. And I'm pushing the cart while he's off to look at heat tapes and I have to avoid the forklift carefully left in the middle of the aisle. I should just stay out of those stores considering I always get in trouble.

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 9:43:18 PM

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I'm generally happy enough with good manners. They're surprisingly rare.

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/2/2008 10:51:59 PM

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From: Upstate, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bratb

While many males will do this for Female Dominants out of habit which is not very unusual. i have seen female submissives do this for their Male & Female Dominants .

Would many of Yyou see these actions as " protocols " politeness , or both ?

For me it's both. I was raised in such a way that manners and politeness were important. Of course being a submissive just magnifies this.

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/3/2008 12:29:37 AM

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I will add that having good manners in the first place
is a great starting point for learning specific protocol.

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/3/2008 3:24:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveBlutarsky

quote:

ORIGINAL: bratb

While many males will do this for Female Dominants out of habit which is not very unusual. i have seen female submissives do this for their Male & Female Dominants .

Would many of Yyou see these actions as " protocols " politeness , or both ?

For me it's both. I was raised in such a way that manners and politeness were important. Of course being a submissive just magnifies this.

Thanks SlaveBlutarsky you just said the word I was looking for 'MAGNIFIES'!

Of course we expect to have good manners and that works both ways but its the pure magnification of those manners that play well on a subs mind and (I believe) puts them into a safe place.

Jaz

(in reply to SlaveBlutarsky)

RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/3/2008 7:02:17 AM

bratb

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Joined: 11/7/2008
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Oh that is too funny lol !

Please stay far away from Home Depot and Lowes

for the sake of Your Own safety lol .

i just had a vision of being out with family and everyone all in line walking behind eachother kind of like the " Brady Bunch " lol !

The only time i walk behind is when i am with my Mistress , although when i am in the company of Mistress & Sir i walk in the middle of Them

Respectfully,
girl

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/3/2008 8:17:21 AM

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I expect my male to be a gentleman at all times. This includes opening doors, carrying packages, pulling out chairs etc. He came to me having learned this lesson as he was growing up so it was not something he had to be trained to do. I consider it politeness and protocol in our relationship. There are other things that he does for me that I have trained him to do like rub my feet before bed, giving massages, doing pedicures that are protocol in our relationship.

Each relationship is different so everyone will have a different response.

~Lashra

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/4/2008 9:24:37 PM

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quote:

always walking being Your Dominant , never in front

Walking besides me is fine. The only problem I have is him walking in front of me, unless it is to open a door.

quote:

When eating always wait until your Dominant takes Their 1st bite before taking your's.

always open the doors for your Dominant .

While many males will do this for Female Dominants out of habit which is not very unusual. i have seen female submissives do this for their Male & Female Dominants .

Would many of Yyou see these actions as " protocols " politeness , or both ?

If these are things he already does, they are proper manners from a gentleman; if he isn't accustomed to doing these things, than they become protocol he needs to learn. M

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RE: " manners or Protocols ? - 12/5/2008 8:51:09 PM

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I just noticed the bit from the OP about 'Old Guard' and bringing that into the discussion.

No point in considering what manners and protocol are appropriate if (1) you haven't got a specific dynamic and (2) you haven't got the basic awareness of what Old Guard is really all about, and that isn't protocol and manners but attitudes, ethics and a code of honour. If you have been trained in Old Guard you will most likely have a good awareness of what manners and protocol are appropriate in a given dynamic or situation.

This is something completely different in my mind from common courtesy which is something we all have based on societal and cultural expectations.

But even then there are different interpretations of Old Guard depending on whether the dynamic was based on leather values, formal domestic service, or Aristasian philosophy.

My best advice would be that, if all else fails, ask your domme.

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