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Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 4:12:05 AM

rulemylife

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So, the banks come to the taxpayers begging for money.

The banks receive the taxpayers' money.

The banks then say it is not the taxpayers' business how the money is being spent.

Unbelievable arrogance.

• Banks claim they can't track how bailout money is being spent

WASHINGTON – It's something any bank would demand to know before handing out a loan: Where's the money going? But after receiving billions in aid from U.S. taxpayers, the nation's largest banks say they can't track exactly how they're spending the money or they simply refuse to discuss it.

"We've lent some of it. We've not lent some of it. We've not given any accounting of, 'Here's how we're doing it,'" said Thomas Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, which received $25 billion in emergency bailout money. "We have not disclosed that to the public. We're declining to."

Post #: 1

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 5:20:37 AM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
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And you thought they would be honest. Why do you think most people inthis country are/where against it?

Next the auto exec's will say something along the same lines.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 2

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 5:27:33 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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y'know, every job I've ever had, if one fucks up the task and doesnt fulfil one's duties, one gets dismissed and no compensation regardless of what was agreed if the job were done adequately.

and when one reports to the dole office and they ask why one is out of work and one says "dismissed for a bad job" one gets no benefits whatsoever, having been at fault for being out of work.

the anger that is building will explode. one way or another, thousands are going to die on one side or millions on the other.

look for pay increases and bonus payments for all law enforcement and military personnel soon, regardless of the costs. some animals are more equal than others as we are finding out - such raises to those who stand between us and them are vital to ensure millions rather than thousands die.

I look forward to reprogramming or summary execution as a terrorist (one who declines to comply) in due course.

E

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Post #: 3

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 5:51:03 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So, the banks come to the taxpayers begging for money.

The banks receive the taxpayers' money.

The banks then say it is not the taxpayers' business how the money is being spent.

Unbelievable arrogance.

• Banks claim they can't track how bailout money is being spent

WASHINGTON – It's something any bank would demand to know before handing out a loan: Where's the money going? But after receiving billions in aid from U.S. taxpayers, the nation's largest banks say they can't track exactly how they're spending the money or they simply refuse to discuss it.

"We've lent some of it. We've not lent some of it. We've not given any accounting of, 'Here's how we're doing it,'" said Thomas Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, which received $25 billion in emergency bailout money. "We have not disclosed that to the public. We're declining to."

What in the hell did anybody expect. These capitalist/socialist feel a sense of entitlement that has created a culture of dependency. The profits belong to them while the risk belongs to us...the taxpayer. Where did all of our 401K and pension fund money go ?

Where did they get all of their salary and bonus money ? Money doesn't evaporate...it's still somewhere and I think I know...off-shore. These people are the costliest of our so-called 'welfare state' and will have the next generation (or two) paying TRILLIONS in debt.

This all creates the arrogance of an elitist American aristocracy. It's almost as if they feel we owe them the money because of their designed entanglement of the financials and our money.

The very astute Japanese business community saw all of this coming years ago because they just went through it themselves. Billions of yen to the rich...unemployment and poverty for the Japanese worker. To what end...a no growth decade.

(Note: the success of Japanese capitalism...the no. 2 ranked economy in the world...produced the world's 24th ranked (yes, twenty fourth) standard of living.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 12/22/2008 5:55:07 AM >

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 4

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 6:18:19 AM

UncleNasty

Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
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The name of the game is "Bailout" and unless you're sitting at the table you don't get to play, only pay.

Hopefully this is the last "inning."

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 5

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 8:14:02 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

Posts: 1672
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

Hopefully this is the last "inning."

Don't count on it.

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(in reply to UncleNasty)

Post #: 6

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 9:37:11 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

The name of the game is "Bailout" and unless you're sitting at the table you don't get to play, only pay.

Hopefully this is the last "inning."

Uncle Nasty

This is the absolute last bailout... I can quit any time I like... this one's gonna be it...

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(in reply to UncleNasty)

Post #: 7

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 12:11:35 PM

rachel529

Posts: 197
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline

hey uncle nasty, we could make a board game and sell it! im sure it could play like clue- jpmorgan, in the private jet, with 120 million...

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 8

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 12:46:42 PM

rexrgisformidoni

Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
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heres where part went too;

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EXECUTIVE_BAILOUTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-12-21-08-26-26

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(in reply to rachel529)

Post #: 9

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 12:58:16 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
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I thought it was a Bad Idea in the first place and for this exact reason. The really sad part is that so far NONE of the money has gone to what it was supposed to because all these banks are in the exact same place they were only now the money being used exists and isn't based on payments from other morgages.

Someone forgot to write in that if they take this government money they shoud be responsible to the public and would be required to post where every cent of that money went.

But that was forgot wasn't it.

Steel

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(in reply to rexrgisformidoni)

Post #: 10

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 1:33:56 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

~ Fast Reply ~

DISCLAIMER: Do your best to keep in mind this is a matter of disclosure and NOT a right/wrong rationalization. For the record I am against ANY bailout of a failure, for ANY reason of friend, foe, corporation, individual, partnership, or LLC.

'Tis the season for BONUSES, sometimes know as 'contingency payouts'. Within many of the financial institutions, bonuses are determined by volume and assets and NOT necessarily the bottom line. You have to expand your definition of 'Bonus' to understand the problem. It includes internal as well as external considerations, as well as acquired companies.

The problem is, there are contracts in place. Even with the poor bottom line results companies are contractually obligated to pay out the bonuses as stipulated in the agreed upon contract. Outside the corporation, there are also 'contingency' payouts that have to be paid to acquired companies. For example, a very close friend sold his national on-line mortgage company a couple of years back. An ongoing fee/bonus was agreed upon at the time. His purchaser, wanting to insure the flow of applications, based a bonus on the number of applications continuing to come in at a pace equal or exceeding the average over the prior three years.

Well, in this market, a shit-load of additional applications came in all right, but the purchasing lender couldn't, or wouldn't (depending on your politics) lend. However, because the number of applications was double the average the purchaser is required to pay my friend a seven figure bonus. Maybe you've guessed the punchline - the purchaser was one of the financial institutions bailed out. He's already told me that he'll be sharing some of his windfall with his Congressional and Senate representatives; both of whom voted for the bail-out.

Why Chapter XI or XIII is a better course for anyone still succeeding and not wanting the fruits of their success to go toward the rewarding of failures, is that all these contracts would be subject to review by the Trustee appointed to oversee the liquidation of assets. Depending upon the circumstance and State statutes, some of the employee and executive contracts would be voided or treated as an unsecured creditor. Vendors and suppliers holding filed UCC-1 positions would get their money before the executives in many, if not most, cases.

You can't void these contracts. The litigation cost involved with trying to unilaterally void them is prohibitive. Add to the equation that the legal industry would generate a fee exceeding the contractual liability if you should prevail and you have some insight to the answer of the question; "Where'd the bailout money go?"

The idea that many of those in Congress who voted in favor of the bailout, and continue to support a bailout of the auto industry, understand this is silly. They didn't even require documentation of a 'go forward' business plan, let alone audit the existing contractual obligations which were the focus of the 'beggars' coming to see them in their $5,000 suits. Nope - they had 'good intent' at heart and wanted to make sure there was a finance industry 'for the children' to use. You want to know who to blame anyone who voted for, or supported an incumbent from any party, only needs to look in the mirror. Or, you can continue to wear 'rose colored' glasses so dark that they look like sunglasses and just blame the Republicans and/or President Bush.

Either way - maybe some of you can just go into the banks and try to stock up on the give away 2009 calenders. If you burn them for fuel to keep warm at least you will reap some benefit from the bail out money used to print them.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 11

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 1:49:15 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I thought it was a Bad Idea in the first place and for this exact reason. The really sad part is that so far NONE of the money has gone to what it was supposed to because all these banks are in the exact same place they were only now the money being used exists and isn't based on payments from other morgages.

Someone forgot to write in that if they take this government money they shoud be responsible to the public and would be required to post where every cent of that money went.

But that was forgot wasn't it.

Steel

Exactly. It was rushed through as another emergency, so Paulson can do anything he wants, and the banks can do anything they want.

Next emergency, I say we take our time.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 12

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 4:25:57 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

And you thought they would be honest. Why do you think most people inthis country are/where against it?

Next the auto exec's will say something along the same lines.

Yes, I did.

I've never thought of myself as naive, but I bought into what is turning out to be a complete farce.

I hate to turn it political but I can't help thinking this is Bush's going away present to those who supported him.

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 13

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 5:42:41 PM

blacksword404

Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I look forward to reprogramming or summary execution as a terrorist (one who declines to comply) in due course.

E

V for Vendetta was a movie most people glossed right over.

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(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 14

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/22/2008 9:49:37 PM

Nosathro

Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

Actually I had already posted on this where some of the money is known to have been gone to. The CEO and all got bonus from the bail out money. I also understand that they are still using their Corporate Jets, remember Congress blasted the Automakers for using theirs to come to Washington DC and ask for a bailout.

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(in reply to blacksword404)

Post #: 15

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 12/23/2008 4:00:15 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I look forward to reprogramming or summary execution as a terrorist (one who declines to comply) in due course.

E

V for Vendetta was a movie most people glossed right over.

We watched it over the weekend. My son picked it from the evening line up - naturally he had picked it because of the fighting and action trailers he'd seen.

It was well worth watching, because it enabled him to finally understand the debates and discussions my dad and I have about how things are going. Hitherto, like my sisters (17 and 20 years old) he's been one of those who sits there bemused, not knowing what we're talking about and thinks we're crazy.

Now it may of course be that we're crazy and we're seeing connections that arent there, but I'm sorry, it all just seems too coincidental and aimed towards a certain state of affairs for me to ignore it.

If what is perceived is real then we have to resist, if it isnt real then no harm done.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to blacksword404)

Post #: 16

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 1/3/2009 6:30:03 AM

Manawyddan

Posts: 701
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Petaluma (Northern California)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
We watched it over the weekend. My son picked it from the evening line up - naturally he had picked it because of the fighting and action trailers he'd seen.

It was well worth watching, because it enabled him to finally understand the debates and discussions my dad and I have about how things are going. Hitherto, like my sisters (17 and 20 years old) he's been one of those who sits there bemused, not knowing what we're talking about and thinks we're crazy.

This is straying OT, but please read the graphic novel. It's a much philosophically richer document than that silly film.

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(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 17

RE: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret - 1/3/2009 8:17:13 AM

UncleNasty

Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline

Since someone else had resurrected this thread I though I'd add another comment of my own.

In response to MrRodgers previous comments, in particular the highlighted section:

"What in the hell did anybody expect. These capitalist/socialist feel a sense of entitlement that has created a culture of dependency. The profits belong to them while the risk belongs to us...the taxpayer. Where did all of our 401K and pension fund money go ?

Where did they get all of their salary and bonus money ? Money doesn't evaporate...it's still somewhere and I think I know...off-shore. These people are the costliest of our so-called 'welfare state' and will have the next generation (or two) paying TRILLIONS in debt."

Because our alleged "money" is created out of thin air, in many instances not even being printed but mere keyboard entries, it most certainly does disappear and evaporate.

Uncle Nasty (still on the mend)

(in reply to Manawyddan)

Post #: 18

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