RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice.

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/26/2008 12:39:41 PM)
Here's the funny part....... The posters on this thread who seem sympathetic to the OP need to reach to extremes to justify their positions that expressing anger in the form of breaking things shouldn't be an issue. We've gone through it's only a problem if it's her property, to how it must be her fault for his behavior, to how dangerous it is to point out a potential pattern. Believe Me, I'd be pointing out these same potential patterns if it was a member of My family who was living with someone who acted in the way the OP has freely admitted here. Just because it's not a guarantee that the behavior will escalate, doesn't exactly discount the possibility either.

Raechard -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/26/2008 12:56:52 PM)
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marie2 -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/26/2008 1:36:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raechard As far as the abuse of inanimate objects goes.… How many people here have expressed anger at their PC's and threatened to damage them due to poor connection speeds? Let us take the next logical step and say this is a threat of violence to all of us and should be dealt with by the law. Sounds like a thought crime to me. These are two different statements: ABUSERS often show a pattern of breaking things and destroying property before harming individuals. vs PEOPLE who break things when frustrated graduate to being abusers. No one said that anyone who has broken things out of anger or frustration would turn out to harm human beings. The gist of what they're saying here is that oftentimes breaking things and destroying property coupled with other behaviors (such as those mentioned by the OP) can point to the person becoming abusive.

Raechard -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/26/2008 1:53:04 PM)
From a legal point of view how do you distinguish between the two to demonstrate unreasonable behaviour?

stella41b -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/26/2008 2:21:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raechard From a legal point of view how do you distinguish between the two to demonstrate unreasonable behaviour? Abuse by itself isn't a criminal offence but is a motivation behind numerous offences, such as breach of the peace, criminal damage, vandalism, threatening behaviour or speech, threatening or abusive behaviour, assault, aggravated assault, assault with a deadly weapon, sexual assault, rape, murder, etc and so on. There are offences such as conspiracy to assault, conduct likely to lead to a breach of the peace, going equipped for theft or burglary, and so on. Obviously if you swear at your own PC or damage your own stuff, you're hardly likely to take yourself down to the local police station to report that you have damaged your own stuff and want to be charged, are you now? All this is covered in various legislation, including the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, the Criminal Justice Bill 2003, etc. How is it determined? It can be determined by the person reporting the crime, i.e. anyone, the police, a magistrate or a judge and jury in a Crown Court. It can also be determined in the UK by the Crown Prosecution Service. You can throw in solicitors, lawyers, social workers, etc.

servantheart -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/26/2008 4:04:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Here's the funny part....... The posters on this thread who seem sympathetic to the OP need to reach to extremes to justify their positions that expressing anger in the form of breaking things shouldn't be an issue. Exactly! And I thought I was distractable [8D] edited~ I wonder if the OP will ever finally "get" that his relationship with this woman is past tense.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/26/2008 6:52:51 PM)
For her sake - and actually, for his too, i hope he does.

TheVoiceofOne -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/26/2008 8:04:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Here's the funny part....... The posters on this thread who seem sympathetic to the OP need to reach to extremes to justify their positions that expressing anger in the form of breaking things shouldn't be an issue. We've gone through it's only a problem if it's her property, to how it must be her fault for his behavior, to how dangerous it is to point out a potential pattern. Believe Me, I'd be pointing out these same potential patterns if it was a member of My family who was living with someone who acted in the way the OP has freely admitted here. Just because it's not a guarantee that the behavior will escalate, doesn't exactly discount the possibility either. I agree, and if she were my daughter she would have never chosen a man like this in the first place. I, for one, am not defending him or others like him. I just find it hard to believe that anyone can form an accurate diagnosis of him, or his relationship in this way. There are too many permutations and possibilities in a real relationship for anyone to understand what exactly happened and when... especially when it is presented in such a muddled and confusing way... from a few paragraphs on a message board. I also don't agree that someone who breaks something, curses or yells occasionally... necessarily needs counseling.

PanthersMom -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/26/2008 8:37:57 PM)
yet another poster who believes it's all about him and what he wants. she's probably been trying to tell him for ages that things weren't working. people don't just up and move out one day if they're very much in love and happy with the way things are going. and he wants to change a couple things and get her back? and what happens when he goes back to his old habits? this guy is so much like my ex husband; clueless as to why things are suddenly in the toilet. guess what, it wasn't suddenly, it's probably been going on awhile and you chose to ignore it to the point where she'd had enough and gave up. she moved out. she didn't suggest counseling, she didn't say she was going to stay with mother for a couple weeks to get some space. she left. i'd say the chances of her coming back are slim and none. it's time to face reality. spend some time working on the causes of the problems before you get involved with someone else. it will help you next time around. PM

MistressRouge -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 3:32:40 AM)
How can a Dominant with no self-control, Dominate another? The fact that the op angered over a bad dinner, is rather alarming, to say the least. Get a job, work on your own demons, and then maybe you will enjoy the time relationshipless, while you work on yourself, not only anger management, but managing your life overall!

DedicatedDom40 -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 10:51:01 AM)
I have to ask whether you are right for each other - beyond the synergy of the face-sitting sex and stuffed animals... Kiwisub12 said you were controlling, as if being controlling is a bad thing. Its not a bad thing if the fiancee is not some femi-nazi and desires that type of control from you (yes, Kiwi, women like that DO exist and its not a crime to control them). But it also takes the right kind of woman to be willing to engage in such an environment. Either she is not in the required mindstate, or she is getting mixed messages from relatives that give her pause. Quite possibly those mixed messages are forthcoming from relatives who have watched you in action, lacking power exchange discretion in their presence.

Lockit -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 11:06:12 AM)
One must be worthy of submitting to and even those who wish to be controlled might have a problem submitting to someone out of control or angry.

shannie -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 11:32:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Lastly, LadyPact asked earlier at what point one draws the line and calls a pattern of behavior abusive. Well, there are laws about that. Surely we agree that when the behavior becomes criminal, it has gone too far. Although I agree with much of what you said, I don't agree that just because something has been criminalized, it is necessarily "abusive." I think saying "Boo!" is against the law at this point ("a conspiracy to intimate or frighten," lol). I just mean: I don't equate "the law" with "what is right" (although the two do, by chance, overlap at times). Certain things are criminal, and for many, that may be good enough reason to avoid those things. On the other hand, a relationship can be absolutely destructive to one or both parties -- and still be "legal." That being said, it IS against the law in many states (and considered domestic violence) to "break things." I've seen people convicted of domestic violence for "breaking things" (including their own property). I don't consider it domestic violence or abuse, but the law sometimes does. So be careful with those punching bags (the kind that are shaped like clowns and pop back up after you punch them). Lol.

DesertRat -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 11:47:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shannie That being said, it IS against the law in many states (and considered domestic violence) to "break things." I've seen people convicted of domestic violence for "breaking things" (including their own property)... One time when I was jailed overnight (the Gorilla Mask Incident), my cellmate was in for kicking the shit out of his own car.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 12:01:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40 Kiwisub12 said you were controlling, as if being controlling is a bad thing. Its not a bad thing if the fiancee is not some femi-nazi and desires that type of control from you (yes, Kiwi, women like that DO exist and its not a crime to control them). But it also takes the right kind of woman to be willing to engage in such an environment. Either she is not in the required mindstate, or she is getting mixed messages from relatives that give her pause. Quite possibly those mixed messages are forthcoming from relatives who have watched you in action, lacking power exchange discretion in their presence. The control i was talking about isn't illegal - its more evil than illegal. And i really don't think too many women consent to it. Its the sort of control that i was subjected to - eg. after i got married, my new husband told me that i spent too much time with a gf (non-sexual), that i was married now, and should stay home. Me being the sweet young thing i was, i thought that he was right - and stopped it. It took me a year or two to realise that i no longer had friends - he had manipulated me into alienating them all, so the only people we associated with were his friends and acquaintences. I realise this looks very black and white, but it really wasn't quite this cut and dried. There was a lot of sarky comments about time out of the house, lack of time cleaning and cooking and doing laundry -which a "good" wife would be doing, eye rolling and other nonverbal signals . I hated my hubby being angry with me so gradually i cut out my time with them. I also cut out "me" time too - its hard to take time for yourself when you come home to sighs, comments and straight out nasty statements. Eventually, to keep the peace, i stopped doing anything he didn't agree with. I'm thinking most people have stopped doing an activity to please a signifigent other. Imagine living your whole life that way, and feeling that if you didn't you were a bad wife, woman, sexual partner etc. That is the controlling that i mean. I am now in a D/s relationship which is day to night to the marraige i was in. He controls me in a consentual relationship, and i love it. His controlling has nothing to do with what i endured in my marriage. Thank goddess! edited to add - the OP stated his fiancee sneaked around to phone her mother behind his back - for her to feel the need to do that indicated to me that he had been trying to control her phone time with her family - and it wasn't consentual. I'm willing to bet that he insisted being in the room when she made her calls, a very subtle way of controlling her. or maybe not - maybe i am just imagining things - but i don't think so.

bluepanda -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 12:15:52 PM)
quote: One time when I was jailed overnight (the Gorilla Mask Incident) Holy cats. There was a Gorilla Mask Incident? Is there a link to a thread? I'm always looking for new ideas!

Saishuu -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 12:22:12 PM)
Kiwi-sub you are making things up, (not just you, but you are the last post). I'm not sugar coating anything at all. Yes at one point I asked her to be in the same room as me when calling her mother, at the point her mother made her cry on the phone everytime (everytime), I was encouraging her to stick up for herself. Later on she had normal phonecalls with her mother. Also I had to remind her to ring her dad. remind. Please can everybody stop making stuff up to argue with everyone else... Well make up what you like about otherthings... but not about me, not about what happened.

DesertRat -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 12:22:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bluepanda quote: One time when I was jailed overnight (the Gorilla Mask Incident) Holy cats. There was a Gorilla Mask Incident? Is there a link to a thread? I'm always looking for new ideas! It wasn't really a BDSM kinda thing. Well, there were handcuffs...and what some might call a cage...

LadyPact -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 12:35:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheVoiceofOne quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Here's the funny part....... The posters on this thread who seem sympathetic to the OP need to reach to extremes to justify their positions that expressing anger in the form of breaking things shouldn't be an issue. We've gone through it's only a problem if it's her property, to how it must be her fault for his behavior, to how dangerous it is to point out a potential pattern. Believe Me, I'd be pointing out these same potential patterns if it was a member of My family who was living with someone who acted in the way the OP has freely admitted here. Just because it's not a guarantee that the behavior will escalate, doesn't exactly discount the possibility either. I agree, and if she were my daughter she would have never chosen a man like this in the first place. I, for one, am not defending him or others like him. I just find it hard to believe that anyone can form an accurate diagnosis of him, or his relationship in this way. There are too many permutations and possibilities in a real relationship for anyone to understand what exactly happened and when... especially when it is presented in such a muddled and confusing way... from a few paragraphs on a message board. I also don't agree that someone who breaks something, curses or yells occasionally... necessarily needs counseling. The point I was trying to make with the above was the fact that if the girl felt the relationship was unhealthy, or had the potential to be unhealthy, the laws on the books really aren't of any consequence. She gets to decide if she wants to continue in a situation where plate smashing and phone breaking are a part of it. There have been folks on this very thread who have said this type of behavior would have been intimidating to them. There have also been folks who have said it wouldn't matter. For those who didn't catch it the first time around when I said it, none of those opinions have any influence. The only one of any substance belongs to the girl in question. You know. The one who left. For the record, no, I actually don't break things when I'm angry. When I'm a clutz, sure.

Raechard -> RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. (12/27/2008 12:49:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Saishuu Well make up what you like about otherthings... but not about me, not about what happened. In the absence of facts speculation will occur and before you know it you've been painted as an axe murderer. The debate isn't really about you anymore it's become a theoretical what if type of discussion, so I wouldn't take it personally.

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