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We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 1:23:11 AM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline 		once we take land from somone who does not want it...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jhVKYHIZWw9W_AabT7rwJd3-6XQwD95BGREG0

"The Families of Flight 93 sent a letter earlier this month asking President George W. Bush to empower the Secretary of the Interior to take the land in dispute from a homeowner who had been in negotiations with the National Parks Service, said Patrick White, vice president of the families' organization.

In October, the National Park Service said it would use an independent appraiser to determine the value of 275 acres of land needed for the memorial. The NPS also said it could use eminent domain to acquire the plot if all else fails."

I find this funny.


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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 1:41:40 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I don't really find it funny; I find it sad.  I understand grief, but I don't understand this need to have a monument everywhere there has ever been death.  Why do we need a monument in all three locations of the 9/11 attacks.  Why can't we just have one monument?  I never thought it a good idea to have a huge monument at the site of the Twin Towers.  The land should have just been used for another building, with maybe a small monument.  Getting back to business is more of a commeration to the victims than a useless statue is to me.   I see those homemade, roadside memorials for accident victims everywhere.  Honestly, they just irritate me.  We have places for things like that; they're called cemetaries.  Death happens, but life goes on.  We shouldn't have to be reminded of it everwhere we go.   

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 4:37:25 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		....they want way too many acres for the site!   thousands.   I dont think PA land should be swamp land, had there been a building there- what would they get?   A reflection pool?  (WTC)  or a plack?  (pentagon)

we are getting to a point of too many monuments.

Look at Gettysburg.   One gets a view of a car dealership, and a McDonalds.    We go shopping on many holdidays.   the victims of this need to move on with things that matter in life.

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 6:41:46 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

....they want way too many acres for the site!   thousands.   I dont think PA land should be swamp land, had there been a building there- what would they get?   A reflection pool?  (WTC)  or a plack?  (pentagon)

we are getting to a point of too many monuments.

Look at Gettysburg.   One gets a view of a car dealership, and a McDonalds.    We go shopping on many holdidays.   the victims of this need to move on with things that matter in life.



Well according to the article they want to build a park. Not sure how many acres are needed for a National Park, do you have any idea?

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 6:52:49 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I think the whole thing is ridiculous. My favorite cousin died over twenty years ago, I want a memorial. Dammit, use those tax dollars for me !.

They have nothing better to do ?

T

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 7:41:34 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		In my own hometown, I'll give you an example of why I find this creepy.  Last year some younger people stole a car.  It was two guys and a girl (they took the girl's parent's car.)  It was a nice car and they were having some fun it it.  They got it up to speed on a local road that locally is known as an automotive roller coaster.  If you don't know what I mean...the road was hilly.  They got the car up to 100 mph, and they got it airborne on one hill.  Needless to say, they lost control and hit a tree.  The girl died, and the two boys bailed (it was a stolen car after all.)  Both guys were caught, and the driver will spend the next 5 years in prison.  It was a sad deal; it really was.  But I got creeped out by what followed.  The locals church group and others decided to cut the impact tree into the shape of a cross.  It's covered in postcards, notes, etc.  I don't get it.  Why in the hell can't they do that in the cemetary?  We are talking about a sideroad in the middle of town.  It's not the appropriate place for this kind of thing.  People are just selfish; they expect everyone to halt their life because of their personal grief.  It's ridiculous, and it's pathetic. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 12/31/2008 7:44:46 AM >

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 10:18:36 AM   
MasterG2kTR


Posts: 6677
Joined: 8/7/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		They want 2200 acres for this monument/park. At 640 acres to the square mile, that equals nearly 4 square miles....utterly ridiculous!!! I agree with slaveboy, one memorial for all the victims should be sufficient. The biggest joke is that some want the gov to claim eminent domain and simply steal the land from the owner.

I agree that 9/11 was a great tragedy, but if you really want to show respect for those that died, bomb the fuck outta those responsible and don't ever let it happen again!!

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 12:13:56 PM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		I've not read the link. I want to comment on the contradictions.

A memorial to American Freedom, and they're asking for land in dispute to be "taken." LOLOL

Uncle Nasty (still on the mend)

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 12:27:45 PM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline 		One of the relatives of someone who died on the flight said, '"I think the rest of the family members and I feel there is no point at which we will stop," White said. "Whatever it takes. As long as it takes. Whoever it takes. To do anything less would be doing a disservice to those that we love."'

My question is .. what about the disservice to the person/corporation who owns this land?  I'm against eminent domain in whatever form it's used.  And I'm also against spending $58 million on a monument and national park - which will then need to be staffed, etc.  Is a memorial really *that* important? 

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 1:04:52 PM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I've not read the link. I want to comment on the contradictions.

A memorial to American Freedom, and they're asking for land in dispute to be "taken." LOLOL

Uncle Nasty (still on the mend)


bingo and

quote:

ORIGINAL: mc1234

My question is .. what about the disservice to the person/corporation who owns this land?  I'm against eminent domain in whatever form it's used.  And I'm also against spending $58 million on a monument and national park - which will then need to be staffed, etc.  Is a memorial really *that* important? 


bingo.


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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 2:00:55 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I really hate to get "psychological" here, but oh well.

People who have nothing on the inside must dress up the outside. That is of prime importance to them, having not much else. They can cry like a baby on command fifteen years after someone gets a hangnail, why ?  Because on the inside their emontional vocabulary consists of that's cute, that's ugly and I'm hungry. No love or passion in them. It is all for show.

T

Edited to add ; I hope Obama politely shows them the door. With all these problems these days, we need to make a federal case out of this ? Those families who I thought warranted a bit of empathy are now dogshit as far as I am concerned. Like spending millions of dollars is going to make anything better. This is one of the most shamelessly nacassistic (sp) things I've seen in a long time. In fact even considering it is vehement to me. However we owe them a thankyou, for showing us the underside of human nature. They have shown us who the care about, but more importantly, who they don't.

What $58 million could do for the poor, or to create jobs, improve the infrastructure, anything other than something totally useless and to just burn it up this way is appalling to me.

T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 12/31/2008 2:17:44 PM >

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 2:35:20 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Having lived here in OKC pretty much my entire life, I gotta say "No More Memorials."
 
I was against them putting up the memorial for the Murrah Building - and I knew people who worked/died there - personally.  There was a person from my parents' church congregation who worked there - barely got out alive, lost the kid she was pregnant with due to the stress and near miss on her own life.  I was against the city not getting on with Living as the Ultimate "memorial" to those who were no longer around To live.  I was against the utter and complete FUBAR which was made of downtown traffic (already ugly due to multiple one way streets) by the memorial plans.  I was against what I personally consider a sort of victory for those who would perpetrate terror - by always keeping it fresh in our minds, rather than getting on with what they wanted to put a stop to - normal living.
 
I'm still against it.  I'm still against any sort of memorial larger than a discreetly placed plaque on the wall for the casualties of 9/11.  What the terrorists wanted - most of all - was to disrupt our lives, and gain noterity.  We gave them what they wanted - and continue to do so - for as long as people insist on not simply rebuilding and getting on with things.  THAT is what is Disrespectful to the memory of the Casualties - giving that sort of ultimate victory to the ones that perpetrated their deaths.

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 2:52:14 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		We can't take care of the living and yet we want to spend money on the dead... this is a priority... wow something is seriously messed up!  That kind of money could do a lot more good someplace else.  Do these people realise that our nation is in crisis and when in crisis we ought to buckle down and get to some basic's? 

Some of us should have the commitment of the people who say they won't stop until they get what they want and fight for what we want... no extra expenses in a time of crisis and bail outs. 

We are not free if they can take what we own.  We are just paying for it and using it until they decide they want it.  But then... I guess our country was founded on that idea, why should we be surprised?

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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 12/31/2008 3:24:13 PM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

Having lived here in OKC pretty much my entire life, I gotta say "No More Memorials."



I'm with you ... I think a lot of memorials become more of a show rather than something sincere, and I hate to think that way.  But it's like 'see how much we care - see what we created.' 

I do understand the roadside memorials that pop up, especially when kids die.  I don't like them, but I understand them - and they tend to drift to the wayside after awhile.  Sometimes just a sad, limp helium balloon remains for awhile ... but that isn't costing any taxpayers any money (at least that I can see). 

Our town built a memorial to 9/11 - I'm in central NJ, and lots of the towns around here did.  So now we have multiple 9/11 memorials.  It's silly, especially considering if I needed a trip to mourn it's a 40 minute train ride.  But somehow it was seen as the thing to do.  Everytime I drive by my municipal building and see it, it's just a painful reminder, a twist in the gut - the same way driving by a cemetary sometimes is if a dead loved one is on my mind. 


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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 1/1/2009 2:12:31 AM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I really hate to get "psychological" here, but oh well.

People who have nothing on the inside must dress up the outside.


...are you kidding? are you really suggesting that this is a fact?

What $58 million could do for the poor, or to create jobs, improve the infrastructure, anything other than something totally useless and to just burn it up this way is appalling to me.

T


...or you could just NOT take 58 million dollars from american citizens...how about that for a novel idea.


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RE: We're building memorial to American freedom... - 1/1/2009 12:19:39 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		That 58 million came from the same place, no matter where it is now.

Hmmm, just occurred to me, where is that money right now ? How many people were on that plane ? How many rich families do you figure had members flying coach ? First class ?

Or is this supposed to come from the taxpayers ? I don't remember, perhaps someone can refresh me.

So is it just eminent domain they propose to misuse or taxpayer dollars as well ?

I fully agree with just don't take it rather than giving it "back". but that is apparently not how things work.

T

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