Seeking Advice on Cutting (Full Version)

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Kazinar -> Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/2/2009 5:50:05 PM)

Hello,

Just after some advice on the best and safest way to perform a cutting, is there a particular type of blade that should be used (obviously it should be sterilised - I know that!). What saftey aspects should I be looking out for and what's the best way to practice/test a cutting pattern before doing it to someone.

Thanks.




sweetpea29 -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/2/2009 8:20:46 PM)

why would you cut someone?  that's just.........begging for problems, bleeding, scarring, stitches, infection




wandersalone -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/3/2009 2:22:54 AM)

A lot of people may be into things that don't interest you Sweetpea, it doesn't mean they are begging for problems.  Maybe bleeding and in more extreme instances, scarification are what they are looking for....as well as pain, the thrill of the blade, the connection to your play partner, the edginess etc etc etc  [:)]

Sorry I don't have any answers Kazinar however I have seen some great examples of cutting in the past.  All the best in finding more information.




Kazinar -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/3/2009 4:46:04 AM)

Thanks and you have to love those that don't like something becuase it's not "their kink". Such people really should open their eyes to the world and keep their mouths shut.

One of the reasons I'm asking for suggestions and advice is because I'm a safe player and research these things throughly before doing them and note that questions do not equal action.





mistoferin -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/3/2009 4:51:03 AM)

Maybe there is someone in your local community who is experienced at cuttings who would be willing to share a bit of knowledge with you....or you may even possibly be able to find a demo on cutting?




synningsub -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/3/2009 5:10:32 AM)

as for a 'safe' way to cut.. there are mistakes that can happen to the best of us but knowing the person's skin elasticity and playing with a sufficiently sharp blade is key.. to make actual scars depends on that persons skin.. for myself, single carved lines dont work well for scarring so i tend to go for skin removal which involved cutting on an angle and pulling up the piece in between.. cutting shallowly actually seems to cause more pain as the sting factor is greater.. the majority of nerves seem to be located nearer the surface

*just a disclaimer... cutting is never gonna be fool proof.. practice on something other than that other persons skin first and for heavens sake, be careful .. no such thing as being overly careful with stuff like this




T1981 -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/3/2009 5:13:51 AM)

I don't know a thing about the subject, but I do recall that one of my tatoo'ers used to practice on a thin skinned orange. He said while it's slightly tougher than human skin, it gave him a better idea of how much pressure he needed to apply and how making curves on skin works.




Kazinar -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/3/2009 7:00:12 AM)

Skinned Orange is a good idea and many thanks to synning sub. Very insightful.





SteveAndJaz -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/3/2009 4:50:12 PM)

Hi Kazinar

Steve and myself have done scarification on each other and as a medical Mistress I have been known to cut and suture the more hardened submissive[8D]

Practice on an unripe banana skin. Cut the skin without cutting the banana underneath. This is about the level of cut you want for scarification.
Use a scalpel that comes in a sterile pack but try to go for the short bladed scalpel rather than the surgeon size as these are very difficult to guide for depth. Be prepared to use staples if necessary.
Always make sure the area you cut is cleaned with an anti-bacterial wash but once you have cut then use nothing more than a piece of clean lint to stem the bleeding. Actually you will find that there is very little bleeding.

Another way to cut if your worried about using a scalpel is with a large needle (canula) The blade of a needle is very sharp and will not penetrate too deeply. This will probably not be deep enough to scar but will give you the confidence to deal with breaking the skin without having to stitch them up afterwards.




cagliostro -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/4/2009 10:10:35 PM)

You're going to need steady hands, so no alcohol, no caffeine, try not to get too excited.  Be careful to watch for abnormalities in the skin.  Unless the blade is really really sharp the ease with which it moves will vary.  So scars, stretch marks, freckles, whatever, change how much force is required.  Make sure that they don't wiggle or  jump too much, i.e. - they're prepared.  Cuts don't necessarily hurt evenly.  Know your blade.  Points cut different from flat edges, flat edges cut different from curved edges, which cut different from cerrated edges, etc. etc.   Don't cut in the direction of the point of the blade, it's too easy to have it catch and dig in.  Be sure you have plenty of cleaner, and keep the blade dry so it never rusts.  Get a good sharpener, and try to keep the sharpness even over time, it makes for fewer mistakes.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.




MadamnX -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/8/2009 1:17:03 PM)

Blood Safety Issues:
How important is blood testing? ...HIV and AIDS are rampant. Hepatitis B and C can cause serious damage and even death. HIV testing is VERY important.
... Know the risks.

Cutting Methods:

BE GENTLE.
Lancets. Lancets are a pen-like device used by diabetics to extract a small amount of blood for blood sugar testing. They are inexpensive and readily available without prescription, everywhere from Walmart to your local drug store. Lancets vary in price from 10 to 15 dollars and sharp refills are also very inexpensive. The beauty of these little babies is that they are completely sterile (if looked after) and it’s almost impossible to do any SERIOUS damage, as you can with a razor or a scalpel; though you should still avoid MAJOR arteries and veins.

Safety
Like safe sex, safe bloodletting works best if you plan ahead. Keep everything you need close at hand, clean and sterile. Lancets, blades, alcohol swabs, Neosporin/Polysporin, bandaids, and a small first aid pamphlet such as "St. John's" gives out, are all essential if you are into bloodplay. A good book or website on phlebotomy is also highly advisable.
Education and care are the keys to avoiding "accidents" that are costly and dangerous .
Cutting, if done right, should feel more like a fine point pen being drawn across the skin; it should NEVER feel like a slice!

Keep the cut small to minimize scarring. If the cut is too small, you can always make another one. But never take the chance of cutting, or to cut, too deep. I keep "butterfly" strips around in case of emergencies; fortunately, I have NEVER needed to use them for just cutting But, better safe than sorry.

You can reuse a lancet or blade two or three times during the session on the same sub as long as you set them on something sterile (a first aid kit gauze pad, for example) but after that discard them in a safe manner (both to yourselves and to the trash person) -- put them inside an old coffee can, or a soda bottle with a cap, or turn them in to a needle a program. Most drug stores will take and dispose of needles and sharps if necessary.
Clean and bandage the cut(s) as soon as possible, especially if you in an area that tends to be hot & humid. Neosporin/Polysporin and a bandaid will do a lot to minimize or eliminate scarring. A little Vitamin E also helps a lot.


Things to Remember:
Safety are your number one priorities! If anyone is ever uncomfortable, STOP immediately.
Sterile equipment, gauze, and an antibiotic gel are your BEST FRIENDS!
Shallow cuts in unobvious places are safest. Never cut "across grain" when cutting a muscle.
Exacto knives, while readily available are NOT the tool of choice! The edges are often rough and can lead to scarring, and the cut can be VERY painful and slow to heal. They are better left for their intended purpose... as a household or industrial TOOL!
Know Your Anatomy
Grab a phlebotomy book or online article. Be smart... be safe.
The following list of texts is generally available through www.amazon.com, or can be ordered through a university bookstore:
  • Grey's Anatomy
  • The Complete Textbook of Phlebotomy
  • Handbook of Phlebotomy
  • Handbook of Phlebotomy and Patient Services Techniques
  • Introduction to Phlebotomy
  • Multi-Skilling: Phlebotomy Collection Procedures for the Health Care Provider (1997. Beverly M. Kovanda)
  • Phlebotomy (1995. Kathleen-McBride EdD,MT(ASCP) et al., ASCP Press)
  • Phlebotomy Handbook (1996. Diane Garza, Kathleen Becan-McBride: 4th Edition)
  • Phlebotomy for Nurses (Dennis Ernst and Catherine Ernst)
  • Phlebotomy Handbook, Teachers Edition (1996. Diane Garza, Kathleen Becan-McBride, 4th Edition)
  • Phlebotomy Principles and Practice: A Text and Workbook (NYA)
  • Phlebotomy Techniques: A Curriculum Guide (Susan Phelan MHS, MT(ASCP); ASCP Press)
  • Phlebotomy: The Clinical Laboratory Manual Services (Lynn B. Hoeltke MBA, MT(ASCP) PBT; Irvine Sci-Tech Books)
  • Procedures in Phlebotomy (1994. John C., Jr. Flynn [Ed])

...and websites like:
http://www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/PHLEB/PHLEB.html
http://www.phlebotomy.com/
http://www.phlebotomypages.com/
Basic "First Aid"
First off: If you are going to indulge in "blood play", take a first aid course, or at LEAST read a first aid book and keep it HANDY!
St. John's Ambulance and The Red Cross offer first aid courses that are excellent. Other courses are readily available in whatever country you reside, so there is really no excuse for not having one.

http://expage.com/page/lacieking
http://www.mayoclinic.com/findinformation/firstaidandselfcare/index.cfm
http://www.healthy.net/clinic/firstaid/
http://www.firstaidsuppliesonline.com/nav.pl
Scarring
What can be done to minimize scar formation? In order for a wound to heal properly, several ingredients are needed. First of all, the body needs protein to make new tissue.
Besides protein, the body needs adequate levels of the following vitamins and minerals to repair damaged tissue: vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin E, selenium, and zinc.
Buy some vitamin E capsules, or some of the new body lotion recommended for scar and stretch mark treatment. As the cut closes up start applying vitamin E (usually comes in ampules or gel caps that you prick with a pin and squeeze out the Vitamin E oil). It minimizes scaring in an amazing way. It also helps minimize infection.
The sub should also take vitamin supplements. Vitamin C has been shown to speed up wound healing, and the amino acids lysine and cystine also aid in wound healing and skin growth.
Alpha-hydroxy skin lotions will also reduce scaring AFTER the cut is mostly healed. Alpha-hydroxy lotions contain a weak acid that keep molecules in the skin from cross linking which is part of how scars form.
Another product which works well for minimizing scar tissue formation as well as reversing existing scar tissue is called Scar So Soft. Scar So Soft is a mixture of several different herbal oils along with agents that penetrate and soften the skin. Scar so soft is available at https://naturedoc.com/secure/secure-orders.htm.

For information on Scarfication : http://www.bmezine.com




colouredin -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/8/2009 2:26:36 PM)

Its also important to point out that the skin is differant depending on the areas you cut, I scar better on my legs but they dont look that pretty. Also the backs a common cutting area, be so so so so so so careful here with nerves. Paractice until you are totally bored of it, and take it slow.




MistressLamia -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/8/2009 8:27:56 PM)

Although I believe consenting adults in their right minds (not drunk, hi or having a mental/emotional problem) have the right to do whatever they want I believe there are some things we maybe should not do. Most of us are completely untrained so the risk of causing a health problem is always present. If cutting is your thing it might be best to stick with lesser cuts that have the least amount of risk involved.




NormalOutside -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/8/2009 8:39:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadamnXNever cut "across grain" when cutting a muscle.

Wow, you learn something new every day.  I didn't even think cutting muscles was a possibility.  Everything I learned when I studied medicine taught me to stay far away from cutting muscle except when necessary for surgery.  Cut muscles don't always heal well, as any woman who has given birth by caesarian will tell you about her abs.




Shylahgirl -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/9/2009 11:58:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazinar

Hello,

Just after some advice on the best and safest way to perform a cutting, is there a particular type of blade that should be used (obviously it should be sterilised - I know that!). What saftey aspects should I be looking out for and what's the best way to practice/test a cutting pattern before doing it to someone.

Thanks.



A number 15 scalpel blade is one of the best, If you're looking for scarification.

Scalpels are very sharp, practice on a piece of meat or an orange first, to make sure you get the right depth of cut. Too deep is wonderfully bloody, but could also mean stitches and an ugly scar. Check to see how the bottom scars, maybe a test cut in the area, if they keloid a lot any design will be a blob.

Shylah




MistressAinCT -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/9/2009 1:44:57 PM)

try www.bmezine.com for some ideas.

I have done cuttings with scalpels and brandings with branding pens.  As long as the area is sterile and you do NOT CUT TOO DEEPLY you should be all right.  It's all in the touch and quite frankly, if you don't have the experience you shouldn't attempt it without a guide there. 

you could try attending a body modification convention where you can talk to people who do this on a daily basis.  BME should help you there. 

And don't let anyone tell you to practice on fruit-believe Me, an orange is NOT human flesh (it bleeds a lot less and doesn't require 911 or an ER). 




cagliostro -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/10/2009 12:55:50 PM)

If you cut a healing cut, you're very likely to create a scar.  The more you recut a healing wound the more likely it will scar, and the longer the scars will last. 

That's if you're interested in scarification.




Dastan -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (1/11/2009 7:50:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressAinCT

try www.bmezine.com for some ideas.

I have done cuttings with scalpels and brandings with branding pens.  As long as the area is sterile and you do NOT CUT TOO DEEPLY you should be all right.  It's all in the touch and quite frankly, if you don't have the experience you shouldn't attempt it without a guide there. 

you could try attending a body modification convention where you can talk to people who do this on a daily basis.  BME should help you there. 

And don't let anyone tell you to practice on fruit-believe Me, an orange is NOT human flesh (it bleeds a lot less and doesn't require 911 or an ER). 


If you wonder the meaning of too deeply, as Mistress AInCT wisely advises, if your can cut below the hypodermic layer, you will cut the fascia or membrane that covers the muscles and you'll see tendons exposed which in turn, on some areas, cover the vital orgasn which are inside the gastrostemiu membrane and contain each organ in their own membranous pack according to the case.  This is a very dangerous thing.

In a general sense, the rule of thumb is that the hypodermical barrier, the point at which you break the epidermis, dermis and hypodermis, is when you cut a 4mm-5mm deep. In other words: when you go in 1/6th of an inch. At that point, you can cut and separate the skina s if you cut a small line in a pair of jeans and you see the leg's skin without any cut on it. You'll see the fascia of the muscles and you'll know you can't go beyong that point.

As a small advise as we were given when we were trained for R2I, the impact plays using whips and such usually cut 4-5mm deep or worse when the cracker or fall of the whip is too hard and travels too fast, like when the whip cracks too close to the body, it's usually best to crack the whip a foot away from the body and then let the recoil hit the area. If using canes, cuting over swollen tissue is like cutting open a muffin when it grows and blows up, what was a thin cut like a crack on a glass will expand and become a huge gap where you can set a cherry inside like a pothole.

If you use blades, be careful of the angle and force applied, after the blade cuts the first layers, the other ones are comprised of less adipous tissue and they are more hydrated areas which become softer. In other words, if you wore a pair of jeans over a lycra short, if you cut the first layer, the enxt one that remains between the blade and ther skin will be easier to cut than the first one.

And if you plan to go for needle play, just stay away from vital organs. Basic anatomy says that  if you stick a blade in someone, it must be along the skin, not perpendicular to it, otherwise you'll end up puncturing the organs and major veins and causing internal infections or bleeding at worst.




LadyConstanze -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (2/9/2009 9:17:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadamnXNever cut "across grain" when cutting a muscle.

Wow, you learn something new every day.  I didn't even think cutting muscles was a possibility.  Everything I learned when I studied medicine taught me to stay far away from cutting muscle except when necessary for surgery.  Cut muscles don't always heal well, as any woman who has given birth by caesarian will tell you about her abs.




Actually not 100% true with the Cesarean problem, most celebs opt for it instead of natural births and if you look at most of the singers and models displaying their bellies, the abs are just fine. I never had a child but a similar cut due to tumor surgery, I also thought my lower abdomen would suffer or I would never get the muscle tone back. I thought wrong, exercising was a bit more painful after the surgery and you have to be more careful, but if you do keep at it, in most cases it works fine. The main problem is that people often avoid toning exercises due to it being relatively painful so the muscle heals differently. I guess part of it is down to luck and genetics, but there is a lot you can do yourself, though I don't blame women who don't really feel up to exercising while caring for a baby and healing... Quite natural that it isn't their first priority unless their income depends on their looks.




VeryNastyDom -> RE: Seeking Advice on Cutting (2/9/2009 10:09:38 AM)

Assuming you use a sharp #15 blade and some common sense, the biggest risk will be infection.  Every inch of human skin is crawling with bacteria no matter how clean the person is.  You can reduce, but not eliminate, the infection risk be carefully prepping the site. 

Betadine is probably the best commercially available skin prep.  Good news is that it does a great job, bad news is that it can be sticky and discolors the area to a nice yellow because of the iodine content (washes off easily with water afterwards, but may make it harder to work while present).  Also realize that while the incision is open, nasties can float down from the sky so keep the open time to a minimum.




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