RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive



Message

slavejali -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 1:52:11 PM)

Some recent comments got me wondering what others think. Basically comments were made that one couldn't be submissive or slave if they were independent, strong, self-reliant; that in order to be submissive or slave one must be dependent and reliant on others.

Do you believe that? Why?

Do you disagree? Why?

I guess for me the position of submissive or slave within a relationship defines "surrender" to me. I do become dependent and reliant on my partner, its why this type of relationship really suits me. My partners actions, moods, words etc effect me profoundly - for that not to be so would mean to me that I wasnt surrendered and there was a barrier of self excluded from him (independence) which would basically amount to me not being a slave/submissive.

When it comes to my personal relationships I am very submissive even to the point the foods I like will change to be compatible with my partners.

My initial choice in partner became significantly important to me at some point because of realising my submissive nature regarding relationships - and my life has been a lot happier since :)

I'm not submissive, dependent or reliant on "others", I have no desire to share that most intimate part of myself with every joe, dick or harry.

If there is a fire in the house, I don't think "ogod where is master what do I do?" I put the friggen fire out.

I don't think being a slave/submissive equates to be an idiot which I sometimes think people project as the interpretation of someone who submits totally to their partner.



ALAstella -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 2:03:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I believe the opposite.  The more capable a sub is, the more she can offer me.



I agree.

I also need a stiff drink. I've just agreed with LaM on more than one occasion in the same day.

stella



starshineowned -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 2:07:37 PM)

Greetings..

I am inclined to lean more towards Aszhrae's view as far as being a slave. Not because it has anything to do with being "True". The only truth to slavery for the vast majority of us is that it's illegal, and without embedded laws governing such that all shall follow..it's a what ever you need it to be type of word.

I don't think the root of a slave being dependent and reliant on the Owner to necessarily mean that they are incapable of being independent or self-reliant as much as it is meant (what some have said already) it is what is needed for that person to experience their slavery. It doesn't have anything to do with the person not being capable of doing work, being intellectual, or being weak..just that perhaps those area's are now governed by the Owner instead of the slave "deciding independently" of what they will or won't. I do agree though that the longer the slave is dependent and reliant on the Owner for all things..the more difficult it is for the slave to understand living without that absolute direction. It can produce a strong security issue to be without that and I think thats were the real fear lays. Some can pull out of it...some will not be able to but for those that can't..eventually there will be someone for them that does want and feel that a slave should and needs to be exactly like that.

Mentioned in another thread somewhere was the women of older generations that were infact completely dependent on their husbands and or sons for survival. I'd not think that "they appeared" abused.

The phrase: Just because one calls themselves something doesn't mean it is true or others will agree with it. It applys to us all.

I can't speak about submissive because I am not. I submit because Masters dominion and mastery of me compels me to and not think of anything contrary.

starshine



Aszhrae -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 2:24:55 PM)

It might also be important to note. Even if the sub/slave in question leaves for a certain amount of time. It may have been to get away from a certain situation that escape was required. Now if that sub/slave was dependent upon the security of having someone direct and guide. It would be logical to assume that if the did choose to escape it was towards a destination. Even if they do manage to make their way back. It still means they are running to or returning to a destination of security.
It is not enough to be independent, with your own space and life so that it is something that your dominant can hang that over a sub/slave to deny them of or to have some where to escape too. I would be much more inclined to do as I am told because I have no where else to go. Certainly a great motivator if you are ever told that you're out and will be alone.
As someone once told me, its a mindset that makes a sub/slave dependent of security. The longer you have that security, the more difficult it is to leave it behind.




kallisto -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 2:46:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

Personally, I'm very INdependent and so far it hasn't kept me from being submissive in a relationship.  I think a strong and self-reliant person can absolutely make an awesome sub for a dominant who wants those characteristics in a sub.  



I didn't read any of the replies past this one before I posted.   Same applies to me.  Maybe because of the way I am, I also agree with Lordandmaster ... the more capable a sub is, the more "she" can offer.    Since I'm not a "damsel in distress", I wouldn't be able to offer anything to the relationship if that is what would be required of me. 



SassySarijane -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 5:26:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

In some of my statements I have found that what I am trying to say gets a little twisted in its interpretation. Perhaps its my own lack of education Sassy.
Not all sub/slaves are created equally.
I enjoy being told what I need to do and left alone to do them to the best of my ability. It does require a certain amount of independence and I most certainly don't need to stand over me to make sure that I do what was asked of me properly.
Being capable of independent thought, but needing to know what my dominant expects of me when it comes to task is what is desirable.
Certainly I am self-supportive but I much rather being contributing to making both my dominant and my own life better. I am not that selfish. I am much happier serving in the capacity to contribute to the whole.
Direction to doing a particular task. Guidance when I am having difficulty dealing with a situation. Having a dominant as my counsel. How is that any different than asking for insight from your friends or family members? If a dominant can't be bothered then such a dominant is the wrong dominant for me because then I feel the dominant doesn't care about my well-being. Why should I care about the dominant or even give them the respect they deserve.
This is what worries me about the independent question. If you are so independent, why the hell should I even have a dominant?





Ah but Aszhrae, just because a person is independent and can take care of themselves and their daily lives, it doesn't lessen the need and desire to submit, nor does it lessen their submission, it simply means they can and do see to their lives on their own when necessary. I do not believe that being strong and independent changes the core of a person. Part of my core is my being a submissive. I have a very strong need and desire to serve and my being independent and having others dependent on me hasn't changed that at all over the years. I have simply done what I had to do to see to those dependents and found that I can be both independent and very submissive. One doesn't take away from the other for me. I do not believe you need worry that becoming independent and self reliant will change who you are or stop you from being submissive or slave. Isn't that a part of you and aren't there many parts that make up the whole?

As to you saying lack of education makes what you are trying to say get twisted.......I believe it's rather more to do with the medium of communication here. I know things I've posted have been taken differently, sometimes waaaay differently than what I said and meant, simply because all you have here are typed words, no voice inflection or tone, no facial expressions or gestures to broaden the communication of your thoughts.



oceanwynds -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 6:08:55 PM)

quote:

just because a person is independent and can take care of themselves and their daily lives, it doesn't lessen the need and desire to submit, nor does it lessen their submission, it simply means they can and do see to their lives on their own when necessary. I do not believe that being strong and independent changes the core of a person. Part of my core is my being a submissive. I have a very strong need and desire to serve and my being independent and having others dependent on me hasn't changed that at all over the years. I have simply done what I had to do to see to those dependents and found that I can be both independent and very submissive. One doesn't take away from the other for me.


Thank you SassySarijane for the above words.

Reading this post and other threads today, I have started to question my own submissiveness. Was wondering if I just fooling myself.  Seems so many opinions are either this or that, and shades of grey seem to get lost in these posts.  My mind got tangle in the trees and couldnt see the the woods. Reading what you wrote resonated with me, and i do not feel so lost now.

blessings
oceanwynds



ThundersCry -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 6:47:24 PM)

oh no no no noooo.....
 
those kind submit deeply... under the right circumstances...
 
they become...slaves



SassySarijane -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 7:00:33 PM)

You're welcome oceanwynds and I'm sorry you were in such distress and doubt about it. I'm glad something helped you find some clarity. [:)]



KatyLied -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 7:18:07 PM)

quote:

independent, strong, self-reliant


I think a submissive with those qualities probably has some interesting and complicated layers that a dominant would find enjoyable.

and this part:
quote:

those kind submit deeply... under the right circumstances...




whis31 -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 7:19:21 PM)

My Master demands that i'm independent, he will give advice and directions when needed but he wants me to be part of life and be active in it, but when he is here or i'm with him, he makes all the decisions for me.



Sanguinarian -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 7:22:52 PM)

I sure as hell wouldn't want a slave/submissive/pet if they were incapable of taking care of themselves! If I wanted a doormat, I would go to walmart and pay three dollars for one, and have the added benefit of not needing to feed it. I wouldnt want a slave who has to come to me forpermission for every little tiny thing. 



bamabbwsub -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 7:30:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

I can really only reply from my own perspective.  I'm independent - own home, car, career, friends, etc.  and yet I'm submissive to the right person.  I think my life experiences has made it difficult for me to submit to many people - I need my dom to be older and of a similar intellect, for example.  I've always had careers that could be viewed as 'high powered' and have good managers and bad managers.  The good ones tend to be older, intelligent, confident and thoughtful and they've always earned my respect and loyalty.  The bad managers tend to be younger, brash, impatient, valuing style over substance. They do not inspire respect, or anything much else apart from antipathy and irritation.
So my dom really needs to fit the 'good manager' bill that works for me.  I'm not trying to be age-ist or IQ-ist here, that's just the way it is for me. *shrugs*

I find it harder to give up my independence, even for a short time, to a dominant.  But when I do, the feeling of release and peace is almost overwhelming, which is why I do it.  As an independent woman at the beginning of a new relationship I struggle daily to hand over control of things that I think I can manage just fine.  But I perservere, and eventually the headspace works for me and I'm content.  It's hard work for the dominant too, but I hope that the rewards in the end are worth the struggle.[:)]


[sm=applause.gif][sm=agree.gif]



Kimveri -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 7:52:16 PM)

Good evening, beth,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
perhaps for you and LuckyAlbatross it  is a myth, but it isn't for those of us who do have a "static" submissive personality type AND a preference to submit in the context of a relationship.

 
I prefer to submit in the context of a relationship, which is why I chose a relationship with a man who inspires that reaction in me. Perhaps you are submissive with everyone, but for me, it doesn't happen without the external stimuli HE provides. 

I apologize if you took my comment about "static" personality types personally. I don't think anyone is "always" submissive/dominant/introvert/extrovert with everyone. It's an absolute -- therefore static -- that I've never encountered. If you are "always submissive" with everyone, then I can now rest easy knowing there's IS one living, breathing absolute out there. ;-D


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
quote:

...I hope some of this brought others to think about the inaccuracies in applying their personal standards & preferences to others...


indeed, wise words we should ALL heed, don't you agree?


Indeed. You've perhaps misread me if you think I was suggesting otherwise.

Well wishes,

~Kimveri



Aszhrae -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/7/2009 8:37:33 PM)

I really do believe there is a big difference between being dependent and being micromanaged.
As stated before being dependent does not mean a loss of will. A sub/slave can still be independent, meaning they can get things done without being constantly supervised. However, being dependent does not mean to include micromanaged to the point of becoming a marionette.
For the purposes of a D/s and M/s dynamic within a relationship. I think independent needs to be redefined and not just quoting the word from a desk copy of Webster's Dictionary.



SassySarijane -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/8/2009 5:19:25 AM)

I agree Aszhrae, but there is a huge perpetuated misconception out there in cyberland that any show of strength of will, independence, self reliance makes one not truly submissive or slave. It's like anything, any action perceived as not submissive or slavelike seems to disqualify one from being that. Now I know, and most of us do, that a lot of that perpetuating is done by trolls and HNGs and those very new to this, but it still continues and still grows and you get those who because of that, then vehemently deny dependence at all equating it with the whole doormat thing they do not want to be seen as. I think that is just as wrong. A person really can be strong and self reliant as well as dependent on and submissive to their owner. It's about balancing all that makes us us.



starshineowned -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/8/2009 5:55:25 AM)

quote:

It's like anything, any action perceived as not submissive or slavelike seems to disqualify one from being that.


Chances are that if you feel submissive or feel like your living as a slave based on "your" understanding of what those words mean to "you"..then you are. However, the above quoted portion sets a wrong thought process in my head.

Being submissive in relation to another or others or being a slave to someone or others is Not some sort of sought after booby or door prize or distinguished label that sets one on a pedestool amongst others.

They simply are the best basic terms available to describe our natures and place in relations to another or others.

starshine



Venalismihi -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/8/2009 6:12:27 AM)

I have always considered that the sub is the stronger of the pair. they are the poor sods that not only have to carry their own lives but mine also. I would not be in their shoes for a pension. I could not manage without one but do not desire to manage them.



Lordandmaster -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/8/2009 6:20:02 AM)

Your profile says you're dominant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venalismihi

they are the poor sods that not only have to carry their own lives but mine also. I would not be in their shoes for a pension.



KonDomme -> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? (1/8/2009 6:24:52 AM)

I agree with Venalismihi, I am the bitch from hell but I know the worth of any sub. They lift and carry My life and therefore My secular position in the community goes by reasonably stress free. I could not manage My job without their managing My every breath. A set of rules at the commencement of the relationship is all that suffices in order to ensure that I never never need to repeat or tell or demand anything.



Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875