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RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/11/2009 7:34:00 AM   
Dastan


Posts: 148
Joined: 12/13/2008
From: Barranquilla city, Colombia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRouge

Those are the type of images, that I emotionally analyse too, and think "why"?

I have never really considered that many select me for session, for my race, only that one time with the racial client.
I just see me, as me, I am quite pleased that I am a little different in design, however I admire all of all races, as people not skintone

quote:

ORIGINAL: RainydayNE

i'm neither a sub male or a mistress but i am experienced with the whole "racial intermingling" thingamabob.
and i personally don't have an issue with it, but when you're a female of a brown tint, there are certain segments of the males-of-a-brown-tint community who don't want you with a nonbrown person PERIOD, much less in a D/s sense. like it negates all of MLK's work or something =p (of course it's TOTALLY fine for them, though.) i've gotten loads of negative comments about stuff like that before.
i did notice on one "equpiment" site that the only time you see a brown male model is when he's modeling steel shackles =p
see here: http://www.extremerestraints.com/bondage-gear_10/
and honestly i have to wonder why that is. he appears almost nowhere else in the entire site. =p THAT annoys me. it's like... an image right out of Amistad or something =p

i dont think purely racial play would be all that fun. some people get off on that, but ech... not for me.




Dear Lady RainiydayNE and Mistress Rouge:

Thank you for that image and that comment, respectively. After seeing the link's image, I see that this is indeed something that I find very disturbing as well considering the rest of the website. I once saw an image of OWK about males chained to a post firmly planted on the ground, on the sun, doing some sort of harvesting chore while a lady on horseback overseed them and cracked a 12-feet long bullwhip over their backs.

This image also disturbed me for I have seen REAL slaves in the drug fields the guerrilla has in the Southern and Eastern parts of my country, where you see entire townships forced by gunpoint and chained as chain gangs under the hot sun, at 102ºF and a 70% humidity, collecting coccaine or amapola (opium plant) flower bulbs for heroine paste which is derived from opium. The guys who dance on the leaves like the traditional way to crush and stomp on grapevines to make wine, in order to reduce coccaine leaves to a mushy paste are so intoxicated they get cardiac arrests eevry couple weeks, and while they dance, they are like zombies capable of doing it for an entire day's duration without rest.

It did insult me, as a soldier who fought and helped liberate such fields and provinces, to see the image of a male slave doing field harvest labor or agricultural tasks chained to the ground as a dog is tied to a post. But then i realized that these women, these people in the website didn't know about this, and to their credits, a Mistress answered me after I sent a letter, and they took the image down, which was quite a surprise that earned them my respect as they proclaimed, and did reply, as man-hating Dominatrixes who believe in femdom  and Female Supremacy the same way an Auschwitz camp guard believed in Nazism and aryan supremacy as tey promote themselevs to be, so they did gain my respect with the message.

To me, the field of emotions and thouhgts is what creates the minefield in racial questions. I have been held aside and put through intensive body searches in many airports due to the fact I am Colombian. In An European country, a customs agent put a dog so close to me that i threatened to snap its neck in two and then do the same to him, and thanks to a consular office who pulled out hi sidearm, we weren't more humiliated and harassed. In another country, they said "He's got to have soemthing on him, He's a friggin spick from Colombia, it ain't coffee if it's not drinkable" and they almost did a cavity search, which would have cost them their lives. Even travelling with diplomatic credentials, permits from the host country and sports permits and papers, they simply think the worst out of me for being Colombian and make me want to give them a bad taste of it.

For being Latino, during the time I was in the USA, I was downplayed very much. I recall one stupid man who added an "O" to every word like "I am el boss-o of this work-o, you go into el truck-o and move the box, si?" and I felt like clocking one on his jaw and he actually, after I explained in perfect english some things and handled the computer, he said "damn, you got computers down there too?" and I just felt like losing it, he even asked if you could see the jungle from my house and stuff, if the roads were passable and things of the sort, and my greatest surprise is, that he actually didn't mean to insult or patronize me in a condescendant manner, he actually believed this to be true, that we lived in dirt-floor houses in swamps and jungles, if not tree houses and the like, like we were still back in the pre-colonial period well before 1492. I actually laughed at that.....

Problem is, it wasn't the only time I saw it. There were some arrogant hillbilly or redneck assholes with a confederate flag on their caps or jackets and a swastike or such which looked me down, I even had to defend myself a lot of times against them, and aainst Asians in the neighborhood I was in. Asians got a surprise but they quickly learn that they aren't the only ones who have martial arts. But it was also fun to see them discriminate against us the same way, although my experience with teh SouthEast asians was great sicne they shared with me, Thai, Burmese, Cambodian, laosian Indonesian, Malaysian and Filipino inmigrants, that they got the same treatment and they actually don't come from small villages either.

Black men were also funny. I once got into a discussion with one who said to me "what do you make about that, you f---ing wetback, bean-n--ger" and I was amazed at his use of the "n" word and how he made a reference to the mayor cuisine plate of central American food. He moved on to "Coffee n--ger.." and "Coccaine  n--ger.." and it amazed me that they can be as discriminative as they can because they feel that it's their nationality what gives them the right to do so, they said "If you ain't made in america, you aren't made for nothin', boy" and it perplexed me a lot.



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Power without Purpose is the same as an Artist without a Brush

(in reply to MistressRouge)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/11/2009 7:48:30 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dastan
Black men were also funny. I once got into a discussion with one who said to me "what do you make about that, you f---ing wetback, bean-n--ger" and I was amazed at his use of the "n" word and how he made a reference to the mayor cuisine plate of central American food. He moved on to "Coffee n--ger.." and "Coccaine  n--ger.." and it amazed me that they can be as discriminative as they can because they feel that it's their nationality what gives them the right to do so, they said "If you ain't made in america, you aren't made for nothin', boy" and it perplexed me a lot.
This part is probably outside the scope of this discussion, but since you mention it, I wanted to point out a recent concept I learned about, called lateral violence, which makes a lot of sense if you look at the world, and how humans treat one another.
quote:

http://definitions.uslegal.com/l/lateral-violence/
Lateral violence happens when people who are both victims of a situation of dominance, in fact turn on each other rather than confront the system that oppresses them both. Lateral violence occurs when oppressed groups/individuals internalize feelings such as anger and rage, and manifest their feelings through behaviors such as gossip, jealousy, putdowns and blaming
M


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(in reply to Dastan)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/11/2009 12:17:01 PM   
Dastan


Posts: 148
Joined: 12/13/2008
From: Barranquilla city, Colombia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dastan
Black men were also funny. I once got into a discussion with one who said to me "what do you make about that, you f---ing wetback, bean-n--ger" and I was amazed at his use of the "n" word and how he made a reference to the mayor cuisine plate of central American food. He moved on to "Coffee n--ger.." and "Coccaine  n--ger.." and it amazed me that they can be as discriminative as they can because they feel that it's their nationality what gives them the right to do so, they said "If you ain't made in america, you aren't made for nothin', boy" and it perplexed me a lot.
This part is probably outside the scope of this discussion, but since you mention it, I wanted to point out a recent concept I learned about, called lateral violence, which makes a lot of sense if you look at the world, and how humans treat one another.
quote:

http://definitions.uslegal.com/l/lateral-violence/
Lateral violence happens when people who are both victims of a situation of dominance, in fact turn on each other rather than confront the system that oppresses them both. Lateral violence occurs when oppressed groups/individuals internalize feelings such as anger and rage, and manifest their feelings through behaviors such as gossip, jealousy, putdowns and blaming
M



Dear Mistress FullFigRIMAAM1, you are most correct, perhaps I shouldn't have included that, but i felt that it would be also a form of bias or discrimination to say only White people were guilty of such episodes or behavior. But you are correct.

Perhaps Humans tend to blame each other, because it's easier to target someone equal in numbers and strenght and closer inr ange being at the same side of the line rather than attacking an enemy on the other side, farther from our range and also stronger in power and numbers.

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Power without Purpose is the same as an Artist without a Brush

(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/11/2009 3:56:41 PM   
IamShe


Posts: 24
Joined: 1/3/2009
Status: offline 		1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ?

2-) ¿ Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?.....

3-)¿ What is your opinion about Latino males in BDSM, both as Masters or Subs/Slaves, and on what bases you make this comment ?

4-) ¿ Have you seen a pattern in the NEGATIVE individuals you have encountered inside BDSM from the Latino ethnocultural group, such as a given Nationality, or perhaps a socio-economical and educational status or level ?

I've never met a latino sub male.  Have met several latino Dominant males whom I have not liked, simply because of their blatant disrespect towards Me on a personal level, I cannot speak to whether this had anything to do with their cultural heritage or not.

I have been with 'nonamerican' sub males of lower socio economic status and no I didn't feel any akwardness.

I have had wonderful relationships with men of other races that were not necessarily involved with BDSM.

I am certain, without taking any survey, that there are Dominants and submissives in all races.  The trick is to find those with whom we are compatible.

I am She

< Message edited by IamShe -- 1/11/2009 3:58:33 PM >

(in reply to Dastan)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/11/2009 11:08:18 PM   
pinnipedster


Posts: 217
Joined: 4/17/2008
Status: offline 		I'm not dominant, and I think as long as it's all consensual, race ought not to matter.  That being said, I have to admit that I can see it being an awkward situation:  I think if I were trying the dominant side out and happened to do so with a black submissive, I would feel a little bit queasy at using the term "slave" in particular.  Of course, perhaps if I knew someone well enough to be in that situation in the first place, I'd feel much easier about it.

For some reason, though, the whole discussion reminds me of an old Onion video -- http://www.theonion.com/content/video/use_of_n_word_may_end_porn_stars

(in reply to IamShe)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/12/2009 7:06:52 AM   
Dastan


Posts: 148
Joined: 12/13/2008
From: Barranquilla city, Colombia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IamShe

1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ?

2-) ¿ Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?.....

3-)¿ What is your opinion about Latino males in BDSM, both as Masters or Subs/Slaves, and on what bases you make this comment ?

4-) ¿ Have you seen a pattern in the NEGATIVE individuals you have encountered inside BDSM from the Latino ethnocultural group, such as a given Nationality, or perhaps a socio-economical and educational status or level ?

I've never met a latino sub male.  Have met several latino Dominant males whom I have not liked, simply because of their blatant disrespect towards Me on a personal level, I cannot speak to whether this had anything to do with their cultural heritage or not.

I have been with 'nonamerican' sub males of lower socio economic status and no I didn't feel any akwardness.

I have had wonderful relationships with men of other races that were not necessarily involved with BDSM.

I am certain, without taking any survey, that there are Dominants and submissives in all races.  The trick is to find those with whom we are compatible.

I am She


Dear Mistress IAmShe:

Thank you so much for the comments, they are very simple, clear and accurate. I am very sorry that you had such negative experiences with these Latino male Dominants but there's a question:

¿ Do you happen to know where did they come from, nationality-wise ?

We Latinos may be seen as the same kind of sheep out of a herd, but that's like thinking all the dogs of a pound or kennel are the same breed. It's a scale, some of us are pitbulls, others are chihuahuas, some are mere mongrels biting everyone's hands, including the one that feeds them.

In case you wonder, I'm Colombian. We are the Wolves, so we are above the doggie scale.

_____________________________

Power without Purpose is the same as an Artist without a Brush

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/12/2009 4:45:12 PM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dastan

In case you wonder, I'm Colombian. We are the Wolves, so we are above the doggie scale.


someone's elitism is showing.

(in reply to Dastan)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/12/2009 4:51:12 PM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RainydayNE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dastan

In case you wonder, I'm Colombian. We are the Wolves, so we are above the doggie scale.


someone's elitism is showing.


I lived in Miami for several years.  The Latin American pecking-order was fearsome to behold.

(in reply to RainydayNE)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/12/2009 4:59:27 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Lil Red Riding Hood might be afraid of bad wolves that blow houses down... but hot air never bothered me...

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/12/2009 5:08:36 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		what's exotic about an American, I ask you?
 
Everything, my dear CW, everything!

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/12/2009 5:16:59 PM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

what's exotic about an American, I ask you?
 
Everything, my dear CW, everything!


Are you sure you're not mistaking "exotic" for "strange"?

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/12/2009 5:32:15 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		While I don't identify as a Domme (I do identify as a switch), I figured I'd give answering your questions a whirl, OP: 
1)I do not concern myself with political correctness; imo, it is intolerance masquerading as the opposite.  That having been said, I haven't ever been in a relationship with someone non-caucasian, nor is it my intent to be.  We each have those things that appeal or do not appeal to us.  Cultural similarity is more important to me than racial similarity, though I will say (Potentially to flames, but I am being honest), that both do weigh in considerably. 
2)I have no basis for this other than a lot of unwanted e-mails from individuals wishing to sub to me across my time on CM but there seem to be a lot more white males wishing to do so.  I don't think a person's race or culture would inherently make them a bad submissive or slave, nor do I think race or culture would inherently make one a poor Dominant or Domme.  A person's a person and each is unique. 
  Davan

_____________________________

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It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
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Waiting is

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Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/12/2009 5:38:18 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Oh I'm very, very, very sure, V.  In fact I was extremely careful to mean "exotic" and not "strange".  Yes indeed.

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(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/12/2009 5:50:44 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dastan
1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ?


Nope. BDSM is already "incorrect". ALL BDSM is equally "incorrect" in my eyes, and even out-and-out raceplay is just play.

quote:

2-) ¿ Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?.....


I have been approached by men of various races and cultural backgrounds. Some are sub, some are dom. The only ones "wired" to be lousy submissives are the doms. Same is true of women.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to Dastan)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/13/2009 4:35:17 AM   
BootSadist


Posts: 25
Joined: 1/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: RainydayNE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dastan

In case you wonder, I'm Colombian. We are the Wolves, so we are above the doggie scale.


someone's elitism is showing.


I lived in Miami for several years.  The Latin American pecking-order was fearsome to behold.


I don't know why but he sounds Median to me and that's something.  And as for the "pecking order" you mention Miss V, thing is, there's a  reason for that. I'm Venezuelan and I am on the third level sharing the spot with the Ecuatorians, below the Brazilians, Chileans and Uruguayans. Lucky me I am not in the lower one with the Peruvians, Paraguayans and Bolivians...or the first one with Colombians and Argentinians. I am in a good place but I live in a country who earned its progress and didn't "purge" 18 million people out of the gene pool to do so like the Colombians once did.

< Message edited by BootSadist -- 1/13/2009 4:36:40 AM >

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/13/2009 4:42:36 AM   
Dastan


Posts: 148
Joined: 12/13/2008
From: Barranquilla city, Colombia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Lil Red Riding Hood might be afraid of bad wolves that blow houses down... but hot air never bothered me...


Very good, Mistress Lockit, but hot air can be one of the forces that creates a Tornado, and that is something to watch out for unless you can use that power in your benefit. Too bad my air isn't hot and it only propels and creates the sound of truth coming out of my mouth in this thread.

_____________________________

Power without Purpose is the same as an Artist without a Brush

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/13/2009 4:48:46 AM   
Dastan


Posts: 148
Joined: 12/13/2008
From: Barranquilla city, Colombia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BootSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: RainydayNE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dastan

In case you wonder, I'm Colombian. We are the Wolves, so we are above the doggie scale.


someone's elitism is showing.


I lived in Miami for several years.  The Latin American pecking-order was fearsome to behold.


I don't know why but he sounds Median to me and that's something.  And as for the "pecking order" you mention Miss V, thing is, there's a  reason for that. I'm Venezuelan and I am on the third level sharing the spot with the Ecuatorians, below the Brazilians, Chileans and Uruguayans. Lucky me I am not in the lower one with the Peruvians, Paraguayans and Bolivians...or the first one with Colombians and Argentinians. I am in a good place but I live in a country who earned its progress and didn't "purge" 18 million people out of the gene pool to do so like the Colombians once did.


Mistress RainydayNE: I am not an elitist because I am snobbish, but if you don't have what it takes to play with the major league team at the top of the ranks, then don't get upset if they tell you to go back to the little league. Same happens with my nationality and culture, my skills and training. You just cannot compare us to the rest of the continent in terms of progress, economics and education.

Mistress Venatrix: I didn't know you considered a pecking order fearsome, I thought you understood it the same way it would apply to some "first world" countries like when you compare and differentiate a German national from a Greek national, being they are both Europeans. I am somewhat concerned and hurt by the concept of a "fearsome" impression of the "pecking order".

And Señor Boot Sadist, you are Venezuelan. ¿Is it a problem for you what specific ethnicity am I coming from ? Your country and mine almost went to war once and I guess you should recall that we often fight over a lot of things as nations, and i don't want to repeat history and do you wrong.

_____________________________

Power without Purpose is the same as an Artist without a Brush

(in reply to BootSadist)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/13/2009 4:58:29 AM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline 		well this thread is degenerating quickly =p
"i'm better than you!" coming from the guy complaining about racial bias? =p yikes. is racial bias any better or worse than superiority complexes based on nationality?

ta ta

p.s. i'm not "Mistress" anything.

(in reply to Dastan)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/13/2009 5:24:43 AM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		Meh, the only skin colour I ever really notice, to be honest, is when it's those cute, girly, subby Japanese boys.  GREEDYTOP!  You said you were sending me a half dozen of them as new toys for christmas!  Where are they!? >:(

I bet that damned UPS driver took them.  He seems the type that would steal my toys.


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I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! - 1/13/2009 6:15:54 AM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dastan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

I lived in Miami for several years.  The Latin American pecking-order was fearsome to behold.


Mistress Venatrix: I didn't know you considered a pecking order fearsome, I thought you understood it the same way it would apply to some "first world" countries like when you compare and differentiate a German national from a Greek national, being they are both Europeans. I am somewhat concerned and hurt by the concept of a "fearsome" impression of the "pecking order".



Dastan, I was using the expression "fearsome to behold" less in a literal sense and more in a facetious one.  It was quite interesting, as an Anglo in Miami, to see a pecking-order in operation, and every Latino whom I came across accepted it as fact.  The Cubans were at the bottom of it and even *they* seemed to accept it.  I was talking to a Cuban woman once, and she told me she hated Cubans.  I just stood there, looking at her, because I didn't know what to say.  If you've been raised during a period of racial strife (the 1960s), as I was, and evolved out of it, to a degree, anyway, seeing a hierarchy in action like this was one of the more curious aspects about living in Miami, a city very different from the one in which I was raised (London).  I once dated a Colombian and he was spectacularly gorgeous - he modelled for Gucci in Bal Harbour - so I have some very fond memories of at least one Colombian.  Don't go taking offense where none was meant.

(in reply to Dastan)
Profile   Post #: 60
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